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Ascertainable views of the children in court

Ash said:
That is a point. And also sometimes why Cafcass back the Mother and don't want to change things. Situations vary - in my case, my ex doesn't actually need the CM. Her H is earning a lot more than me! And she has a full time job. She still takes it though and wouldn't give it up.

I have an informal arrangement over that. We had an agreed amount for years when my son was young. She made a big thing about wanting more - so I had a formal assessment to show her she would get a lot less if she went via the CMS! And the amount was left the same as an informal agreement.

So do you think she would agree to more time if you agreed not to reduce CM? If that is affordable. Even if it was 50/50. Or just reduce it slightly if it was 50/50. Obviously depends on your financial circumstances and how much you usually pay.

Or just ignore all that and go for it. It also depends on what you've applied for as to what you are likely to get. If you applied for 50/50 you won't get more than that. If you applied for more time with you than with her, you're more likely to get 50/50.

I would have thought one week on one week off and half the holidays would be a good schedule. Or 2-2-5-5. That works well for most people as the kids are never away for longer than 5 days in term time and you get a good long week-end rolling into the midweek schedule.

That would be say Wed and Thurs night with you each week plus every other week-end from Friday through to Monday am school drop off (3 nights).

So one week it would be: Mon Tues nights with ex, Wed Thurs nights with you. Then the week-end with ex from Friday through to Wednesday.
The following week it would be Wed after school through to Monday am. and then repeat.

So every week kids have the same two consecutive midweek overnights with both of you and every other week-end with both of you (the week-end tagged onto the midweek overnights).

You didn't actually say what you've applied for. The problem with applying for "a change of residency" is they don't like doing that unless there are serious welfare issues. But you should be able to have increased time, I agree.

You didn't actually say what you'd applied for.
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Well, part of the problem is that the CM is based on taxable earnings. I have my own company. Due to illness/chemo etc I've had a fair amount of time out of work over the last few years. Yet I still have to live, keep a roof over the children's head and feed them etc. So, I still have to draw money out of the company, and that's taxable. So she gets paid CM not according to what I'm actually making, but what I have to draw. Company funds are getting lower and lower, and she's getting a new loft conversion and renovating the whole house. My earnings will get less as the illness draws in.

The children don't want a week on week off, because, and this is what they say "mum tells us she'll miss us too much when we're away from her".

In the past, I applied for 2-2-3. I know this sounds like a lot of moving about, but the two houses are 5 minutes apart. There are clothes, toys, everything they need in both houses. Handovers would be straight from school so don't interrupt their evenings. However, this time I simply asked the court to consider asking the children their views. I really don't have a preference personally. I think a week about would be better for them, but they don't seem to want that.

There isn't any "ideal" way of splitting 7 days and nights. But the simple fact is that they don't like the current arrangement at all.

In terms of contact, the children have said their preference is to have equal time. After that (and surprisingly to me) they said they'd actually prefer to flip the current arrangement. And last of all, they'd want it to stay as it is.

So for court, I actually think asking to flip the current arrangement is a good idea. And if they say no, then the 50/50 should be the next option.
 
Ash said:
Just wondering if the kids have been interviewed before in previous applications? Maybe that's why they're not doing it this time?
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Cafcass spoke to them 6 years ago. Even then our eldest (now 12) said she wanted to spend equal time with both parents. I was seeing very little of them then as the mother blocked any sort of reasonable contact.
 
I am really surprised you didn't get 50/50 back then if your eldest said that. Sometimes it's luck on who the Judge is and if the other side has a good legal representative. I am sure having a good barrister at final hearing makes a big difference.

2-2-5-5 is a good option - they're not away for 7 days. They're not chopping back and forth too much (even if houses are close by it's still bed swapping a bit). It must be hard if they're close by and you can't see them more.

So is it currently Every other week-end and a midweek night plus half the holidays? That's usually the standard a court will give.

Swapping the arrangements would be ideal - still on a shared care basis - but courts do seem very reluctant to give more time to a Father than a Mother without agreement. 50/50 is seen as fair to both and reasonable for the kids.

2-2-5-5 would be (I think I posted it wrong above)

With you:

Week 1: Wednesday after school to Monday morning school drop off
Week 2: Wednesday after school to Friday morning school drop off.

With her:

Week 1: Friday after school to Wednesday morning school drop off
Week 2: Monday after school to Wednesday morning school drop off

(Or vice versa if you prefer mon/tues to wed/thur)
 
Ash - there is probably more detail here than I feel comfortable sharing on a public forum. As an admin if you have a way to PM me feel free.

Personally, I don't mind 2-2-3, 2-2-5-5, 7-7....
 
There's no need to post something you're not happy with posting anyway :) Only asked what current arrangements were, to see how much of a change it would be to go to 50/50. CM has a lot to do with these decisions when it comes to an ex and Cafcass. If your ex told Cafcass you were maybe just trying to get out of CM and they believed her, then maybe that's why they've not been so helpful (that is a common argument an ex uses when a Dad wants more time). It's wrong that time should be linked to money. The whole thing should be means tested.

But yes you can send a private message to anyone by clicking on the envelope next to your name above and starting to type in the name of the person you want to message (the rest appears when you start typing). Or by clicking on their avatar or name (left) and select "start conversation".
 
One of my main issues historically is that the extra time the children have with their mother causes her to think of herself, and actually refer to herself in court proceedings as the "primary carer". This has caused her to write that she doesn't have to address my concerns on things that I ask about (all child related.) By the way, legally we are equal. Although the time isn't, we have a shared-care order.

Our daughter has had numerous hospital appointments. Many I wasn't told about until after they happened. Some which fell during my care, I was informed about only the night before the appointment, and couldn't arrange some important work things so had to miss it.

She basically thinks only her views matter, and that the children must share her views. She controls everything. That 7 days where the children don't see me she uses to poison them and to control matters.

Recently, we disagreed on which tutor our son should use for his 11+. I arranged a zoom call to discuss. Half way through, she said "I don't care what you think, I'm going to do what I want anyway." I asked her via the contact book (the only other form of comms we use - she refuses to use email) why she said that. Eventually, she said "I'll do what I want, you do what you want." I asked if this meant she was suggesting two different tutors. Eventually, she said "you use your one, I'll use mine, and then we'll ask him to choose." Of course, this puts him right in the middle of conflict. But on this occasion, I called her bluff and did. And our son chose the guy I found. It worked out much easier for him to manage.

But she kicked up a stink about it for weeks, and still does a bit.

But really, a more balanced contact schedule would remove the ability for her to be like this. Which would have a positive effect on the children's lives too. However, this isn't an angle for court. Just my personal feelings.
 
Yep - this happens. I also have a shared care order. She is not the "primary carer" that status was removed via the shared care order - and as in many cases she is still behaving as if she is the primary carer (denying the shared care order). Some of this is face saving I think.

It's the old - how much can court orders make someone do? I had numerous recitals in my order to reinstate a lot of shared care my ex had unilaterally removed. For years I took him to Doctors and hospital appointments, provided his packed lunch etc. She changed all that overnight (after marrying and having another son). The shared care order reinstated it. But she still behaved as if she was the primary carer.

One argument they use, when it's not 50/50 is - well yes it's shared care but I'm the "main" carer as they spend more time with me. Had that used against me before. Some things you can't change and you have to just do your best - but yes it means you have to keep communicating or she'll just railroad.

In terms of the communication. Contact book?!! Is that court ordered? Very archaic, and for young children. Does it say in the order how communication will take place? Contact books are a control thing in my view.

So if she doesn't want to use email or text (ie doesn't want to communicate) then you can ask the court to order that both parents use My Family Wizard. Courts like that kind of proposal! It shows a willingness by you to promote good co parenting. What they don't like is one parent complaining about the other (not saying you do). They just ignore everything if that happens.

My Family Wizard isn't free (might be "our family wizard actually"). Not that expensive though. But if it's court ordered she has to do it, It's indirect communications - saves email arguments and less personal - and it has a "tone filter"! It also has calendars that both parents can post things on so everyone can see upcoming appointments and holidays etc.

It's court approved. Not perfect - but most people seem to think it helps. It sounds like you have some very specific things you need ironed out at court for the order - not just the time. Which is why it's good to attach a draft order to the statement, with everything you want in the order. She's unlikely to agree so then you want to win the case so the court favours your order wording. It can also have recitals like "Both parents will inform the other immediately if children have any hospital appointments, and either parent can attend".#

Some things you have to let go a bit or try and win her over rather than be combative about it. For years I found flattery worked quite well - subtly (even though it made me feel ill doing it! After some of the things that had happened). But it got to a point where she just wanted to ignore my existence and not communicate at all. If I did get any communication it was just full of nastiness and not constructive.

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My ex constantly claimed my emails were harassment and tried to get me in trouble with the police. They kept telling her it wasn't.

But yes, the court ordered the contact book. And then she told the police she didn't want any other form of contact (so to do so would have been harassment) so effectively, we have no contact at all. I've pointed this out to the court. They don't care.

They talk frequently about how communication is key, yet turn a blind eye to one party making every attempt to block any meaningful communication.

She won't use tools like the My Family Wizard - I've suggested it in the past. Basically, she wants to be able to make unilateral decisions and avoid any involvement or questioning from me.... And that is pretty much what the court has sanctioned.

The thing is - communication is actually pointless. Even if I can write something, she'll just ignore it totally if it isn't what she wants. And then the next time I see the children, they arrive having been primed with her position on it.
 
All sounds very familiar to me! When court ordered the contact book, was that before or after the shared care order. The sad thing is kids are aware of all this and feel awkward and in the middle sometimes. My son developed strategies of a sort. A barrister once said to me - you can't negotiate with someone if they have no insight into what they are doing.

So her stance is - I'm not going to inform you of anything, I'm not going to communicate, I'll behave as the sole parent. Leaving you in the dark and effectively turning the kids into messengers presumably? Because they no doubt will tell you what's going on. The problem is courts can't force her to do anything other than allow the children to come to you - so they kind of give up trying to do that.

My concern would be that this behaviour is a fore runner to their teens and your ex saying - they can decide for themselves - when they have no real power to decide for themselves.

So I think it's really important that this final hearing you have, you go for it and get the best possible result you can - so it stands throughout their teenage years.

Some things you have to just let go - but you can always get medical updates from the kids GP.
 
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