Advice please

[jon1234]

Hi Guys,

I am after any advice any of you can give me.

I have a court order for contact which had been going well up till recently but now my daughter refuses to come with me, I’ll explain a little bit below.

Contact order was made 11th Nov where my sister was to be there to help support me given I hadn’t had any time with my daughter alone since she was born due to ex wanting to control everything this was for 3 months which ended 11th Feb then contact was to be unsupervised.

For 10 weeks contact was amazing daughter loved coming was excited for things we had planned for school hols etc then 2 weeks before unsupervised contact was due to start she literally stopped wanting to come won’t speak to me and just tells me to shut up when I try and talk to her.

Last 2 days I’ve been to pick her up ex doesn’t even have her dressed daughter still in pjs and again refuses to come, her behaviour towards me has changed so dramatically in the space of a week from when I last had contact to now.

Ex offers no encouragement to our daughter when I arrive just says “you need to tell him you don’t want to go” daughter has also said to me a couple of times that things are being said at home.

I don’t find it a coincidence that this has all started before unsupervised was due to start.

I’m certain that my ex is causing this but would just like some advice of what to do?

I write everything down each time she hasn’t come etc but what is the next steps?

We have social services involved under child in need due to my mental health issues which are completely under control and there is no safeguarding concerns but when I raised my concerns to her she didn’t even acknowledge them just said I need to be patient etc.

Do I go back to court and raise them there?

I get the horrible feeling that I’m losing my little girl and the longer I leave things and don’t challenge it the worse things will become.

I still turn up on agreed days and will continue to do so as I want my little girl to see that I am consistent.

Any advice would be hugely appreciated.

im so sorry to hear that. i feel the same way. lost my daughter 3 weeks ago when wife left me

 

[jon1234]

any advice about first call from cafcass anyone? please

 

[Ash]

Hi Jon - I've moved your posts to a new thread so people can reply to you on here rather than on DB's thread

 

[MagicJ]

any advice about first call from cafcass anyone? please

HI @jon1234 , I'm sorry to hear what you're going through, it is a shock as a father let alone what your daughter must be feeling.

It will be helpful to members to tell us a little background about what has been happening:

- How old is your daughter?
- What was the day to day childcare split between the two of you? what part of your daughters daily routine did you do?
- Generally how was Quality time spent, as a family, each of you individually with your daughter?
- What led to the split? you don't need to give details, just a little context.

Generally speaking the Cafcass Safeguarding Call is your first interface with the process & provides the court with an initial insight of what is going on.
It's important to remain calm, child focussed, explain you just want your daughter to have the best of both parents fully involved in her life.

There are plenty of threads on this initial SG call highlighting peoples experiences & you can look through them using the search at top right.

Hope that Helps, Stay Strong!

 

[Dirge]

Welcome to the forum @jon1234, and sorry to hear the situation you are in. If you haven't found it already, the thread CAFCASS experiences, talks about first telephone appointment. The thread has been going for a year or two now, but I posted about my first telephone interview on that thread in August last year. Good luck, and keep coming back, there are loads of good folks willing to share their experience here.

 

[jon1234]

HI @jon1234 , I'm sorry to hear what you're going through, it is a shock as a father let alone what your daughter must be feeling.

It will be helpful to members to tell us a little background about what has been happening:

- How old is your daughter?

shes 7

- What was the day to day childcare split between the two of you? what part of your daughters daily routine did you do?

it was 50/50. i did a mix of morning and afternoon collections.

- Generally how was Quality time spent, as a family, each of you individually with your daughter?

the quality time with family were sparse in the last year.

- What led to the split? you don't need to give details, just a little context.

i honestlyhave no idea. i think shes had a mental breakdown. shes too scared to talk to me. its really weird. she took my daughter

Generally speaking the Cafcass Safeguarding Call is your first interface with the process & provides the court with an initial insight of what is going on.
It's important to remain calm, child focussed, explain you just want your daughter to have the best of both parents fully involved in her life.

There are plenty of threads on this initial SG call highlighting peoples experiences & you can look through them using the search at top right.

Hope that Helps, Stay Strong!

thanks

 

[jon1234]

HI @jon1234 , I'm sorry to hear what you're going through, it is a shock as a father let alone what your daughter must be feeling.

It will be helpful to members to tell us a little background about what has been happening:

- How old is your daughter?
- What was the day to day childcare split between the two of you? what part of your daughters daily routine did you do?
- Generally how was Quality time spent, as a family, each of you individually with your daughter?
- What led to the split? you don't need to give details, just a little context.

Generally speaking the Cafcass Safeguarding Call is your first interface with the process & provides the court with an initial insight of what is going on.
It's important to remain calm, child focussed, explain you just want your daughter to have the best of both parents fully involved in her life.

There are plenty of threads on this initial SG call highlighting peoples experiences & you can look through them using the search at top right.

Hope that Helps, Stay Strong!

thanks. how long do they give you to talk?

 

[jon1234]

im hoping they will give me an hour at least

 

[MagicJ]

Hi @jon1234 this really varies, again it's dependent on particular circumstances, some have had an hour, some 15m

I presume you're living outside the family home at the moment & if you are expecting a Cafcass call then Mediation has already been attempted?
Which one of you initiated the Mediation & who applied to court - I presume given the circumstances that you are the Applicant?

 

[jon1234]

Hi @jon1234 this really varies, again it's dependent on particular circumstances, some have had an hour, some 15m

I presume you're living outside the family home at the moment & if you are expecting a Cafcass call then Mediation has already been attempted?
Which one of you initiated the Mediation & who applied to court - I presume given the circumstances that you are the Applicant?

hi im still in the family home. she left and took my daughter with her. we both put applications to the court. waiting for cafcass

 

[Ash]

Just take things one step at a time. If you've both put applications in, they will be consolidated. The person whose application got their first will probably be down as "the applicant" and the the other one as "the respondent". When talking to Cafcass, keep things child focused and not about your ex. The golden rule is "don't say anything negative about the ex" and if possible, say something positive about her. Followed by the mantra "I just want my children to have happy loving relationships with both parents and both families". So for example if the Cafcass officer puts you on the spot and says - Mrs Ex says you're controlling blah blah. You don't react defensively. You say something like "I'm sorry to hear she has said that, as it's untrue. I think she is unhappy that we're not in agreement and I'm hoping the court process will help us reach agreement. She's a good Mum and a good cook and I just want our children to have happy loving relationships with both parents and both families, and significant time with both of us and stability.

 

[jon1234]

Just take things one step at a time. If you've both put applications in, they will be consolidated. The person whose application got their first will probably be down as "the applicant" and the the other one as "the respondent". When talking to Cafcass, keep things child focused and not about your ex. The golden rule is "don't say anything negative about the ex" and if possible, say something positive about her. Followed by the mantra "I just want my children to have happy loving relationships with both parents and both families". So for example if the Cafcass officer puts you on the spot and says - Mrs Ex says you're controlling blah blah. You don't react defensively. You say something like "I'm sorry to hear she has said that, as it's untrue. I think she is unhappy that we're not in agreement and I'm hoping the court process will help us reach agreement. She's a good Mum and a good cook and I just want our children to have happy loving relationships with both parents and both families, and significant time with both of us and stability.

hi ive been told to do the opposite so they know what shes really like. otherwise they will think she is whiter than white.

 

[Ash]

Ok - where did that advice come from? Solicitor? Solicitors don't have to live with the results and aren't accountable for the results. Do you have any evidence? Has social services been involved? One of the first things Cafcass say if you say she has done xyz is - why didn't you contact Social Services then? If you didn't they think you're mud slinging. If you did contact social services, the chances are they would close the case and find no issues. That is what we have to deal with. It is literally the case that unless your ex is arrested for attempted murder, dangerously alcoholic in the care of a child (and arrested for it) - off her trolley with drink and drugs - without any of those, no one will do anything. Even if she is found to be a bit unstable or have an issue of some kind, or hits the kids, the common thing that social services say is - the Mother needs some support. They rarely take kids away from a Mother.

 

[jon1234]

Ok - where did that advice come from? Solicitor? Solicitors don't have to live with the results and aren't accountable for the results. Do you have any evidence? Has social services been involved? One of the first things Cafcass say if you say she has done xyz is - why didn't you contact Social Services then? If you didn't they think you're mud slinging. If you did contact social services, the chances are they would close the case and find no issues. That is what we have to deal with. It is literally the case that unless your ex is arrested for attempted murder, dangerously alcoholic in the care of a child (and arrested for it) - off her trolley with drink and drugs - without any of those, no one will do anything. Even if she is found to be a bit unstable or have an issue of some kind, or hits the kids, the common thing that social services say is - the Mother needs some support. They rarely take kids away from a Mother.

hi yes its advice from solicitor. we have good evidence re medical history but on its own that is not going to be enough so we are stating controlling behaviour which can harm but little evidence. shes claimed some pretty nasty things about me too. i wish it would all go away to be honest and we just went back to where we were which was a 60/40 split of access. it is already extremely stresssful but shes told me not to contact her other than through solicitors so i dont know how to fix things and calm it down. its a nightmare

 

[Ash]

The thing is she can get away with making allegations. If both parents do it it's seen as conflict/animosity between parents. They want people to leave things behind and move on. An ex probably won't but you can come across as the one who wants to focus on the children. Solicitors also make more money the longer a case goes on and if there's a fact find - sorry to be cynical!

Is your ex unsafe with the kids? If not then any allegations about her behaviour won't make any difference - the kids will still live with her. However I can see how you would want to undermine her allegations about you by proving a mental health issue. But that can backfire as well as she could just say you caused her to have mental health issues due to your behaviour etc. Have you had the Cafcass call now or had the letter back yet? See what it says.

 

[jon1234]

you are right, she is saying that. cafcass havent called yet. not had a letter either. i think she is usually safe with the kids. its the odd rare event that can happen that i am concerned about, if i am not there. in the past ive prevented it but i cant if im not there

 

[jon1234]

i want it to be resolved without having to go to a court but its out of my hands now i think. id prefer it to be amicable so we can move on

 

[Ash]

Have social services ever been involved? If so and they think she is ok - there isn't much you can do. If they haven't Cafcass won't take your concerns that seriously probably as they'll say why didn't you go to social services. They might order GP letters for each parent but she just needs to say she takes medication and is fine or something.

The best thing you can do is get a good order and then keep an eye on things and if there are any concerns about the kids, school will pick it up. I used to worry during the holidays a bit. But the main thing is to get the order first. If you can keep things amicable it would be better. It's not always possible but if you keep saying you wish things to be amicable and you're positive about co parenting, it'll help.

All this case is about really is - are YOU safe to have the kids. They assume the Mother is because she has them already and social services haven't taken them away. It's a harder hill for a Dad to climb to show they are a good, safe parent. So keep it child focused rather than about the ex. Eg why the kids best interests are to have both parents fully involved. And you want to make amicable arrangements but need the court's assistance in trying to achieve that.

 

[Peanut 21]

Hi jon1234,
Sadly what Ash says is right.
Dad's are often seen as guilty until proven innocent.
What people often forget is, the family court is there for the children.
Dad's could be beaten black and blue by their ex but all the court is bothered about is whether any children involved are safe.
We've all seen the terrible cases where children are seriously abused or killed.
Sadly that is where the bar is set because social services, cafcass and the courts have to give the benefit of the doubt.
Every single case could be the boy that cried wolf so they have to investigate each time there are allegations.

If you've had a look on other dads threads you'll see there's been a few other men on here with similar scenarios to you.
We're here to offer support and advice and it's a good place to let off steam.

BTW, solicitors enjoy the conflict so maybe consider sacking them off.

 

[jon1234]

thanks for your advice and support guys. i think its gone too far to avoid solicitors. i feel i need protection to be honest. will try to ensure i can show i have been a good parent and that i want an amicable relationship going forward which is true.