Advice? Help? My situation....

[Cool_Dad]

Hello all,

First post so hopefully it's in the right place. I'm basically just looking thoughts and opinions from outside of my inner circle.

I'll try and keep it short and sweet.

My ex wife and I separated in November 2018 after 10 years of being together (married for 4). We have one son who was 5 when we separated.

My ex wife and I are two very different people from two very different families with two very different upbringings.

I put effort into my own life, my family and especially my son.

My ex wife merely bobbles from one day to the next with as little effort as she can get away with.

This resulted in me continually asking, begging and pleading with her to put more effort into our amazing son. But she didn't and ultimately left abruptly with our son because she couldn't hack me begging her to step up to mark. It was easier for her to leave than step up to the mark.

I went through court to try and get full custody of my son, and whilst the judge said it was a tough decision and that I had conducted myself impeccably he still give his mother full custody. Nothing worse than a complete stranger deciding your kids future in 30 minutes. I was however granted a very favourable contact order where my son would spend at least 2-3 nights each week with me. Probably the best I could of hoped for.

In the past 5 years I've been continuing to put the time and effort into every part of my sons life and cherishing every moment with him that I can.

His mother the past 5 years has merely fed him and provided a roof over his head. This is not me being dramatic or unfair. I promise. There is no connection or bond between them.

I told my ex wife when she left I would never lie to our son about her or for her.

Christmas 2023 my ex wife asked our son why he was upset. He told her he wanted to live with his dad. Wait for this.....she agreed! I was ecstatic and so was my son.

I got in touch with my solictor to get the legal ball rolling and to get the paperwork sorted......all without a long drawn out court case.

Whenever she received the first letters she reneged on her offer and told my son he couldn't live with me. My son and I were devasted.

My solictor then advised me as long as my son still wanted to live with me we could go via the court. But he warned me my biggest obstacle would be the period of time between starting legal proceedings and actually getting to court. This could be a period of 6+ months. 6+ months my ex wife would have to manipulate and promise my 10 year old the world. And that's exactly what she done. She broke him.

About 6-8 weeks into starting the court proceedings my son couldn't mentally do it anymore. I accepted his choice. That was in February 2024.

My son within the last few weeks told me he still wants to live with me but doesn't want to be subjected to all the drama of court and his mother.

Which puts me in a terrible place. My sons happiness and mental health are of paramount importance to me.

The way I see it I have three options-

(1) His mother plays balls and gives our son not only the life he wants but deserves with no drama. This unfortunately will not happen. My son has told her he wants to live with me but she point blank shoots him down. There is no talking to her. Instead of doing the right thing for our son, she'd be thinking I've got one up on her.

(2) I go down the legal route. Which is mentally draining for my son and I and also financially draining for me. I would be asking a lot of my son and I just dunno if he could stay strong enough for those 6+ months in his mother's care before we get to actual court. My ex wife does not want any legal proceedings to get legs because she knows the outcome.

(3) My son and I suck up this situation until he's 16. That's 5 more years of mental turmoil for him. If this is the only viable option, all I can offer my son is to be there for him and perhaps get him a counsellor where he can talk through how he's feeling and what's going on in his wee head. But ultimately the situation unfortunately remains the same.


Thanks for reading.

 

[Peanut 21]

I think go legal.
It's difficult and at times frustrating but those years until your son is 16 will feel like forever for him.
You apply for custody. They'll do the checks they need to do. You have a first hearing, then go from there.
If your ex is making your sons life miserable why not at least try to change it.

 

[Cool_Dad]

I think go legal.
It's difficult and at times frustrating but those years until your son is 16 will feel like forever for him.
You apply for custody. They'll do the checks they need to do. You have a first hearing, then go from there.
If your ex is making your sons life miserable why not at least try to change it.

Morning.

Thanks the reply.

I have already tried the legal route. My son had my back.

But the only hearing/decision that matters is the last one. That could take 6+ months to get to.

That's 6+ months his mother has to manipulate him like she done the first time and basically grinded him down where he believed it was easier just to keep things as they are rather than being chirped in his ear by her for 6 months and made to feel bad. He is only 10 at the end of the day and relies on his parents to do what is best for him.

My solictor has told me that is my biggest obstacle. The time my son would spend with his mother until legal proceedings reach their conclusion. She will manipulate, twist, lie and do whatever she can to break him. Basically throw my son and his happiness under the bus to preserve her own false narrative.

The legal route cost me £1500 before she made my son break.

Surely it's not viable mentally or financially to continually start and stop legal proceedings for the next 5 years hoping that my ex won't break my son during one of them?

 

[Peanut 21]

OK. If you keep the courts out of it, your son can actually move in with you before he's 16.
Once he's a teenager your ex can't stop him.
So you have less than 5 years.
When is he 11?

 

[mikeayo1891]

If you go the legal route, you might still win. If you dont, you definitely lose. U've got nothing to lose and more to gain except for some legal fees but it wont be a lot cos this is not a complicated case. What i will advise is that you start the legal proceeedings discreetly and the first the ex will know about it will be when she gets the court letters for first hearing. That way you shave off about 6 weeks from the 6+ months you're concernex about. You then have to hope that Cafcass can speak with your son independently (without the presense of his mum) to obtain his ascertainable wishes in a Section 7 which will help you in court. The other option is to get permission from the court for a part 25 application where you can contract an Independent Social Worker to do a Section 7 report. They are known to be more on the ball especiaplly when you explain your concerns to them. Only thing that this is an expensive route. Might cost you about 2k.

If you have the money then do it.

 

[Cool_Dad]

OK. If you keep the courts out of it, your son can actually move in with you before he's 16.
Once he's a teenager your ex can't stop him.
So you have less than 5 years.
When is he 11?

I was led to believe that it would only be when he was 16 he could legally decide who wanted to live with and his mother could nothing about it?

He will be 11 in November.

 

[Cool_Dad]

If you go the legal route, you might still win. If you dont, you definitely lose. U've got nothing to lose and more to gain except for some legal fees but it wont be a lot cos this is not a complicated case. What i will advise is that you start the legal proceeedings discreetly and the first the ex will know about it will be when she gets the court letters for first hearing. That way you shave off about 6 weeks from the 6+ months you're concernex about. You then have to hope that Cafcass can speak with your son independently (without the presense of his mum) to obtain his ascertainable wishes in a Section 7 which will help you in court. The other option is to get permission from the court for a part 25 application where you can contract an Independent Social Worker to do a Section 7 report. They are known to be more on the ball especiaplly when you explain your concerns to them. Only thing that this is an expensive route. Might cost you about 2k.

If you have the money then do it.

My solicitor has told me the only way I will win at court is if my son has my back until the end of proceedings.

My son has my back. It's the mental turmoil and manipulation that his mother will subject him to is my biggest obstacle.

Surely there's no such thing as starting legal proceedings discreetly? Is a solicitor not duty bound to try and address any problems with her solicitor and if a solution from that is not forthcoming, then court? So therefore my ex knows everything that is going on as quick as I do.

My son even asked me could he live with me whilst the court action was running it's course. Again it's a non runner unfortunately.

I wish to God she'd just let the the court proceedings run their course without interference from her to my son. But that's all she has in her locker. To manipulate and interfere. If court gets legs, it's over for her. This she knows. It's just getting the wee man there with me.

By the way I'm in Northern Ireland.

Dunno if this makes any difference.

 

[Peanut 21]

I was led to believe that it would only be when he was 16 he could legally decide who wanted to live with and his mother could nothing about it?

He will be 11 in November.

Technically yes.
Everywhere you read it says 'a child has a legal right to choose when they're 16'. But the child would not be breaking the law if they choose to move homes. It is not a crime in common law. It is a legality in civil court.
Say for example at 14 your son said he was moving in with you. How or what can physically stop him?
His mother would have to apply to family court. But by that age it would be a waste of time as his wishes and feelings would be taken seriously.

 

[Peanut 21]

Just to add though, this would put also put pressure on your son and he would have to be strong enough to stand up to his mum and leave.

 

[Resolute]

Once a child is 'Gillick Competent' their wishes are the court's primary consideration. This would usually be at about age 12. Can be older or younger depending on the child.

What you are thinking would be easier when the child is in secondary school.

 

[mikeayo1891]

My solicitor has told me the only way I will win at court is if my son has my back until the end of proceedings.

My son has my back. It's the mental turmoil and manipulation that his mother will subject him to is my biggest obstacle.

Surely there's no such thing as starting legal proceedings discreetly? Is a solicitor not duty bound to try and address any problems with her solicitor and if a solution from that is not forthcoming, then court? So therefore my ex knows everything that is going on as quick as I do.

My son even asked me could he live with me whilst the court action was running it's course. Again it's a non runner unfortunately.

I wish to God she'd just let the the court proceedings run their course without interference from her to my son. But that's all she has in her locker. To manipulate and interfere. If court gets legs, it's over for her. This she knows. It's just getting the wee man there with me.

By the way I'm in Northern Ireland.

Dunno if this makes any difference.

Ofcourse your solicitor will be happy to send letters to your ex as regularly as you want as long as they are paid their fees. There's nothing that says you cant start your CAO application discreetly. All you have to do is get a quick sign off from a mediator (tell them that ex is unwilling to attend mediation). Then put in your C100 application. If you're in London, you or ex would not hear anything back until about 4 to 6 weeks time when they send you a notice to attend the First Hearing. Thats what i mean by discreetly. It will catch your ex unawares and she'll have less manipulative time before the hearing. There's no safeguarding concerns so cafcass might not even get involved unless the court invites them.

 

[Cool_Dad]

Technically yes.
Everywhere you read it says 'a child has a legal right to choose when they're 16'. But the child would not be breaking the law if they choose to move homes. It is not a crime in common law. It is a legality in civil court.
Say for example at 14 your son said he was moving in with you. How or what can physically stop him?
His mother would have to apply to family court. But by that age it would be a waste of time as his wishes and feelings would be taken seriously.

Love this idea. Love it!

Basically it would leave her no outs.

My son chooses to live with me. If she wants to reverse it she would have to go to the court and plead her case, my son would have my back and say he wants to continue to live with dad, therefore be hardly worth her while.

I presume a lot would depend of my sons age to make this option viable?

 

[mikeayo1891]

Love this idea. Love it!

Basically it would leave her no outs.

My son chooses to live with me. If she wants to reverse it she would have to go to the court and plead her case, my son would have my back and say he wants to continue to live with dad, therefore be hardly worth her while.

I presume a lot would depend of my sons age to make this option viable?

This idea wont be working for you and you'll be shooting yourself in the foot. U are in a good posotion at the moment but i feel you are going to lose your goodwill of you ever try this. Fathers and mothers are not treated equally. Techically your ex can get away with this if tables were turned. If you do it and she goes to court you'll be seen as the alienator who is trying to go against agreed court orders through the back door. Especially for an 11yo it wont work for cafcass. They will see you as cruel as you're supposed to promote contact and supposed to ensure child sticks to court order. Only time this will work when he is child os around 14 to 15yo.

Like i said if it was the other way round the mother will get away with it. Unfortunately u're a man.

 

[Peanut 21]

This idea wont be working for you and you'll be shooting yourself in the foot. U are in a good posotion at the moment but i feel you are going to lose your goodwill of you ever try this. Fathers and mothers are not treated equally. Techically your ex can get away with this if tables were turned. If you do it and she goes to court you'll be seen as the alienator who is trying to go against agreed court orders through the back door. Especially for an 11yo it wont work for cafcass. They will see you as cruel as you're supposed to promote contact and supposed to ensure child sticks to court order. Only time this will work when he is child os around 14 to 15yo.

Like i said if it was the other way round the mother will get away with it. Unfortunately u're a man.

That's why I suggested when he's older not when he's 11.
I get what you're saying, but if there is no court order now, what order would anyone be breaking?
Obviously I'm not a legal advisor and I'm not suggesting screwing anyone over, but civil court is not common law court. No laws would be broken if a teenage boy said "I'm moving in with dad". The police wouldn't be able to get involved as it's a civil matter. If the mother applies to court by the time it gets to a hearing no-one can go against the wishes and feelings of a 14 year old.

 

[mikeayo1891]

That's why I suggested when he's older not when he's 11.
I get what you're saying, but if there is no court order now, what order would anyone be breaking?
Obviously I'm not a legal advisor and I'm not suggesting screwing anyone over, but civil court is not common law court. No laws would be broken if a teenage boy said "I'm moving in with dad". The police wouldn't be able to get involved as it's a civil matter. If the mother applies to court by the time it gets to a hearing no-one can go against the wishes and feelings of a 14 year old.

From what i gather from his original post there is already a court order in place, albeit 5yrs ago. At that time he asked the courts for full custody but lost. Despite his impeccable conduct as noted by the judge his ex was still given full custody and he got visitation rights of 2-3 nights per week. Thats to show that no matter how shit a mother is it will take hell to freeze over before the courts give a father full custody. Anything you do now to directly or indirectly undermine that court order will be seen as underhand tactics and will be frowned upon by cafcass/social services/court. You suddenly become the unreasonable parent as in the courts warped opinion as a man you've been given very generous visitation rights compared to other fathers ans so you're now seen as the real trouble maker.

Only way to change it is to go back to courts. Even if u dont get the full custody that you desire you may atleast get a 50/50 shared custody and thats better than what you have now. Then from 50/50 you can engineer your son to decide to live with you in the future - say 2yrs time. Very hard to get a court to move a father straight from visitation rights to full custody unless there is proven serious safeguarding reasons on the mother's part.

 

[Cool_Dad]

From what i gather from his original post there is already a court order in place, albeit 5yrs ago. At that time he asked the courts for full custody but lost. Despite his impeccable conduct as noted by the judge his ex was still given full custody and he got visitation rights of 2-3 nights per week. Thats to show that no matter how shit a mother is it will take hell to freeze over before the courts give a father full custody. Anything you do now to directly or indirectly undermine that court order will be seen as underhand tactics and will be frowned upon by cafcass/social services/court. You suddenly become the unreasonable parent as in the courts opinion you've been given a generous visitation rights compared to other fathers but seen as a trouble maker.

Only way to change it is to go back to courts. Even if u dont get the full custody atleast you may get 50/50 shared custody and thats better than what you have now. Then from 50/50 you can engineer your son to decide to live with you. Very hard to get a court to move straight from visitatio rights to full custody unless there is proven serious safeguarding reasons.

Yes you are correct there is a contact order in place from 5 years ago. Works out at about 60/40 in her favour. But it also means she is at the helm of his education which she unfortunately doesn't give a damn about.

My solictor advised me as long as son wanted to live with me and was deemed mature and intelligent enough when conveying this to the powers that be, then I was more or less home in a boat. As the child's happiness was the most important aspect and trumps everything else.

Was my solictor wrong?

 

[mikeayo1891]

Yes you are correct there is a contact order in place from 5 years ago. Works out at about 60/40 in her favour. But it also means she is at the helm of his education which she unfortunately doesn't give a damn about.

My solictor advised me as long as son wanted to live with me and was deemed mature and intelligent enough when conveying this to the powers that be, then I was more or less home in a boat. As the child's happiness was the most important aspect and trumps everything else.

Was my solictor wrong?

Your solicitor is being naive and idealistic. Yes, if you were the mother then you'll be home and dry with your child wanting to live with you. Not so straighyforward if u're the father. Maybe ur solicitor is used to representing mothers and is assuming that the rules apply equally irrespective of gender. It should be, it is touted to be but unfortunately it isnt. Fathers and mothers are seen differently in tje court and fathers have to go above and beyond to get the same rights that mothers get so easily.

As we speak i've not seen my child for over a year for absolutely no reason asides from the fact that i moved on to a new partner. Ex has failed to comply with all court orders and all the judges have been as lenient as possible. If tables were turned i know what would have happened to me.

 

[Cool_Dad]

Your solicitor is being naive and idealistic. Yes, if you were the mother then you'll be home and dry with your child wanting to live with you. Not so straighyforward if u're the father. Maybe ur solicitor is used to representing mothers and is assuming that the rules apply equally irrespective of gender. It should be, it is touted to be but unfortunately it isnt. Fathers and mothers are seen differently in tje court and fathers have to go above and beyond to get the same rights that mothers get so easily.

As we speak i've not seen my child for over a year for absolutely no reason asides from the fact that i moved on to a new partner. Ex has failed to comply with all court orders and all the judges have been as lenient as possible. If tables were turned i know what would have happened to me.

Good morning.

Firstly it's great to interact with dads who have their challenges. Really appreciate all the advice and help.

So if my solictor is being naive and idealistic and considering your current personal situation (which I'm sorry to hear about) and the fact that dad's are always on the back foot, what realistic options are available to me?

The legal avenue now seems like a dead duck.

Hold tight and hope my sons mother does the honourable and decent thing sooner rather than later?

 

[mikeayo1891]

Good morning.

Firstly it's great to interact with dads who have their challenges. Really appreciate all the advice and help.

So if my solictor is being naive and idealistic and considering your current personal situation (which I'm sorry to hear about) and the fact that dad's are always on the back foot, what realistic options are available to me?

The legal avenue now seems like a dead duck.

Hold tight and hope my sons mother does the honourable and decent thing sooner rather than later?

I have already explained what you need to do in my earlier responses but it appears that you just dont like the suggestions. I'm afraid the only way would be to go back to court. Its as simple as that. You may think your son will crumble but he might surprise you with how strong he can be. You need to set your expectations and accept that there's no quick fix to this. I would suggest you go yo court and ask for a variation to your court order first to 50/50 and then maybe request a change of residency in 2yrs time when he will be about 12 or 13yrs old and he'll be more able to stand up to his mum. The legal avenue is not a dead duck just that it wont give you what you desire right now, which is sole custody but it sure will set you on your way to that final destination with a 50/50 shared custody.

 

[Cool_Dad]

I have already explained what you need to do in my earlier responses but it appears that you just dont like the suggestions. I'm afraid the only way would be to go back to court. Its as simple as that. You may think your son will crumble but he might surprise you with how strong he can be. You need to set your expectations and accept that there's no quick fix to this. I would suggest you go yo court and ask for a variation to your court order first to 50/50 and then maybe request a change of residency in 2yrs time when he will be about 12 or 13yrs old and he'll be more able to stand up to his mum. The legal avenue is not a dead duck just that it wont give you what you desire right now, which is sole custody but it sure will set you on your way to that final destination with a 50/50 shared custody.

I have a very open mind and therefore think you're being unfair by commenting I don't like your suggestions.

Your suggestion is go the legal avenue sooner or later.

However you also have stated that your ex has failed to comply with all court/legal orders, the legal judges have been as lenient as possible and you have unfortunately not seen your child in over a year.

The family court in my opinion is totally on the side of the mother. So when my solictor told me as long as my kid had my back then I was more or less home in a boat for full custody regardless of what the mother says, I was over the moon.

You then told me my solictor was being naive and idealistic.

It feels like you're saying take a punt on the legal route simply because it's unfortunately the only action I have. Not because you genuinely believe in it.

At the minute I have a 60/40 court order. I am not subjecting my son to 6+ months of mental torture and turmoil to come away with anything less than full custody.

My son wants to live with me. I want to be his primary parent.

His mother is standing in the way of that.

So perhaps it's all about timing. Getting my ducks in a row.

Over the next few months perhaps let her know in as nice a way as possible that he wants to live with me. The longer she holds him back, the more she's blatantly thinking of herself and not my son.

Turn the screw, put the pressure on and keep legal action until such times my son is ready and pray to God my solictor was right.

Anybody any advice on how to let a selfish, narrow minded, bitter ex know and understand that our 10 year old wants a better life for himself with his dad?

Perhaps that should of been what I asked originally.