Hi all. So thankful for forums like this. I've been separated for about 4 years now and we have 3 young children, 5, 9 and 14. For the most part, it's been fairly amicable, however I have noticed it becoming increasingly challenging. We don't have any formal arrangements with our kids, so it's been quite flexible, and that's been working for both of us. I like to think I'm a good father, and for the most part, we are on the same page when it comes to behaviour, diet, school etc. We do have somewhat of a routine in place, but I am often asked to have them ad hoc, to which I agree most, if not every time as it means I see my kids more often. My ex re-partnered a couple of years ago and they have bought a house together. I am still single, so I have a lot of flexibility. What has been concerning me more and more is when my partner disagrees with me, or gets upset about something, as well as receiving the brunt of the blame, she then dictates my time with the kids. For example, this weekend is hers with the kids, yet a couple of weeks ago, I was asked if I could have the kids on Sunday as she had a theatre rehearsal all day. I agreed and made plans to spend the day with them. She got upset yesterday because our 5 year old complained of a sore throat, which was my fault. So today when I expected to pick up my kids, after waiting a couple of hours after the appointed time, I was informed not to bother. No other explanation. Now, in such situations I don't fight back, especially when the kids are present. I've been told that I'm too soft, which perhaps I am. But I don't want the kids to feel any backlash from their parents' arguments. After all, it's not their fault we separated and they don't deserve to see us arguing. I know this may seem like a petty problem, but I know they can grow and get way out of hand. I would like to know if anyone else has had similar experiences and if so, what did you do about it? I realise there are legal avenues I can pursue, but the last thing I want to do is make it worse for my kids. I know if I do go down this path, their mother will take it out on me, and that will flow on to them. Not sure of where to go with this. Thank you.
Guest viewing is limited
- You have a limited number of page views remaining
- 2 guest views remaining
- Register now to remove this limitation
Where Should I get help first
- Thread starter Raccoon479
- Start date
I would start by explaining how difficult late notice alterations are for you and asking her to only make such alterations in case of emergency. Offer understanding that plans need to change from time to time and make it clear you accept if alterations need to be made on force of circumstance.
She may say on this occasion that plans had to be cancelled because the child was sick and needed to be at home with mum, fair enough on the face of it. The cancellation is not the problem, but informing you 2 hours after the allotted time is clearly unreasonable.
Hopefully some gentle explanations of the difficulty she has caused you, and reasonable suggestions on how to avoid such struggles in future, will make her play a bit more nicely. If things continue, you have something to refer back to. Either to remind her of the points made previously, or if things get extreme, to show a court how reasonable you have been.
If you are getting a reasonable amount of time with the kids mixed in with the annoyances, finding a way to suck it up and of moving towards a more reasonable way of working would be my goal.
She may say on this occasion that plans had to be cancelled because the child was sick and needed to be at home with mum, fair enough on the face of it. The cancellation is not the problem, but informing you 2 hours after the allotted time is clearly unreasonable.
Hopefully some gentle explanations of the difficulty she has caused you, and reasonable suggestions on how to avoid such struggles in future, will make her play a bit more nicely. If things continue, you have something to refer back to. Either to remind her of the points made previously, or if things get extreme, to show a court how reasonable you have been.
If you are getting a reasonable amount of time with the kids mixed in with the annoyances, finding a way to suck it up and of moving towards a more reasonable way of working would be my goal.
Last edited:
Hi. I think it's significant that this is happening more since your ex set up home with someone else. It's also quite common. Are there any court orders in place at all? I had this kind of thing for years when things were informal, but then one day my ex went nuclear - and I had to go to court.
It's a case of weighing things up as you go along. The warning signs for me was when she stopped allowing holiday time with me in the summer holidays. The trigger to that was another child with her new man.
She is just making excuses - of course it's not your fault a child has a sore throat. But it does seem a bit of a warning that she will use any excuse to prevent you seeing them at times. Hopefully all the kids have a strong bond with you after all these years and she wouldn't be able to stop them seeing you at all because she'd know they really want to see you.
The ages are significant. The fourteen year old - you probably wouldn't get a court order for anyway - they would be at least 15 by the time a case was completed. The 9 year old - that's on the cusp of their wishes being taken seriously by Cafcass. The five year old you would get an order for.
It probably is best to try and keep things amicable. But you've been doing that before and aren't getting the same back. Imagine her reaction if you told her you weren't taking the kids back because they had a sore throat on her time.
The difficulty with sucking it up is - it makes them bolder to keep doing more and more unreasonable things. But for now it's probably all you can do and hope something distracts her so she stops messing about.
Is there anything else significant due on the horizon? A wedding with her new partner? A new baby?
It's a case of weighing things up as you go along. The warning signs for me was when she stopped allowing holiday time with me in the summer holidays. The trigger to that was another child with her new man.
She is just making excuses - of course it's not your fault a child has a sore throat. But it does seem a bit of a warning that she will use any excuse to prevent you seeing them at times. Hopefully all the kids have a strong bond with you after all these years and she wouldn't be able to stop them seeing you at all because she'd know they really want to see you.
The ages are significant. The fourteen year old - you probably wouldn't get a court order for anyway - they would be at least 15 by the time a case was completed. The 9 year old - that's on the cusp of their wishes being taken seriously by Cafcass. The five year old you would get an order for.
It probably is best to try and keep things amicable. But you've been doing that before and aren't getting the same back. Imagine her reaction if you told her you weren't taking the kids back because they had a sore throat on her time.
The difficulty with sucking it up is - it makes them bolder to keep doing more and more unreasonable things. But for now it's probably all you can do and hope something distracts her so she stops messing about.
Is there anything else significant due on the horizon? A wedding with her new partner? A new baby?
Thank you all. It's gratifying to get some great feedback. Helps me to know I'm not the only one in this situation. I realise, having said that it's mostly amicable, that this is very one-sided. I rarely, if ever, say no when asked to have the kids more often, as to me, this is a win for me and my kids. We live in close proximity and it helps with pick ups and drop offs. But when there are moods and tantrums involved (with my ex that is), I have to bare the brunt of them. I have so far managed to suck it up and this is mostly due to not wanting to drag the kids into our petty arguments. On the one occasion where I verbally retaliated after being ridiculed in front of them, I could see how distressed they were, and so refused to do that again. Like I said, it's not their fault their parents can't sort themselves out. I would much rather avoid any formal arrangements, as the ages of the kids makes it difficult. I may just have to continue the way it has been. Of course, I do appear to see my kids more than many other custody arrangements allow, so I am better off in many ways. There is another baby on the way between my ex and her new partner, so that will have some impact on arrangements. I am assuming however, that it may work in my favour, as no doubt, my ex will want to spend time with her new child and partner away from the other children. I'm not entirely sure as I've never had to face this situation before. She has asked if I can have some spare annual leave available in case of any problems that may arise with the new arrival. While it's easy to be annoyed whenever she makes last minute decisions about the kids, I can't complain too much about it. Someone has told me that the kids will eventually make up their own minds about visiting and I would like to think that they will see how much their dad loves them.
Aha - new baby on the way. There is usually a trigger. Well firstly she's probably quite hormonal right now so maybe go with the flow and keep things low key. But yes avoid retaliating and reacting. Not just to avoid the kids feeling bad, but to avoid her using it as an excuse to cut you out. Sometimes they deliberately push you to make you snap and then use that as an excuse to cut you out.
Agree that with a new baby she may need more help. This was the situation I had. It was fine when she had a baby with her new H because she was happy to leave my son with me a lot more as she was overloaded with the baby and work. There were no problems until the baby turned 4 - and was due to start school in the September. She was thinking ahead. Once at school - "they" would be the family/parents attending all the school events with their child. And that's when my ex wanted to cut me out and have one normal family with her H, their child and my son - and be the only family visible at school. It was literally quite brutal, ruthless and premeditated. As people are when they want a new life and leave the old one behind.
So just to warn you to be prepared in future and keep things amicable. By the time her new baby starts school, your 9 year old should be at secondary school anyway, but the 5 year old may be going to the same school.
If you can keep things amicable you should be able to organise going to events on separate days etc. What my ex was determined about was that I would not be known by her child with her H. And that's where it can become complicated. And where they just want all the kids to have the same Dad etc. A kind of twisted logic so the kids all feel the same - but totally doesn't get the importance of a birth Dad. I hope your ex isn't that bad.
Agree that with a new baby she may need more help. This was the situation I had. It was fine when she had a baby with her new H because she was happy to leave my son with me a lot more as she was overloaded with the baby and work. There were no problems until the baby turned 4 - and was due to start school in the September. She was thinking ahead. Once at school - "they" would be the family/parents attending all the school events with their child. And that's when my ex wanted to cut me out and have one normal family with her H, their child and my son - and be the only family visible at school. It was literally quite brutal, ruthless and premeditated. As people are when they want a new life and leave the old one behind.
So just to warn you to be prepared in future and keep things amicable. By the time her new baby starts school, your 9 year old should be at secondary school anyway, but the 5 year old may be going to the same school.
If you can keep things amicable you should be able to organise going to events on separate days etc. What my ex was determined about was that I would not be known by her child with her H. And that's where it can become complicated. And where they just want all the kids to have the same Dad etc. A kind of twisted logic so the kids all feel the same - but totally doesn't get the importance of a birth Dad. I hope your ex isn't that bad.
Yes, I hope so too. I've heard so many horrific stories, but then there are more promising ones where exes manage to get along and kids of different parents manage to develop good positive relationships as step-siblings. We will have to see. For the time being, I will persist as I have done for the last few years, and not take mood swings and tantrums personally. I think my kids will develop their own opinions and would hope that by the time the new baby starts school, that there won't be any issues about custody as they'll be old enough to make up their own minds. Thank you.
Sounds very sensible. The right decision on these things is really hard because fairness and normal standards of behaviour do not apply. There is too great a power differential and nothing to stop bullying by the more powerful party.
It is great that mum feels she can call upon you to help out. My ex perpetually tries to claim, without evidence, that the child is not safe with me, and does all she can to wriggle out of the minimum requirements of our court order. Your situation would have to be pretty bad before I would recommend court as an alternative.
By a strange coincidence, our difficulties started on the very day the child started school. Our own case always feels individual to the point of unique, but there is a playbook for this stuff.
It's a shame so many parents become petulant. In all honesty, I long for the day I no longer have to contact my ex on a regular basis. But that's at least 10 years away, so it will be plenty of suck it up for the time being. The worst part of that is, it seems like they are winning, but the alternative isn't worth the effort or aggravation.
At the moment it's likely to be around 40/60ish. Over a 2 week period they would stay at mine 5-6 nights. Weekends tend to be flexible and holidays we try to share as evenly as possible. I put in for annual leave during school holidays. So I can't complain too much. We don't have formal child support arrangements either but I agreed to pay £350 a month and half of all other expenses such as school fees, clothes, after school activities etc. I would often get asked to mind them in addition to other arrangements if my ex has a social event on. I am expecting this will increase in the early stages after the new baby arrives. But as you have suggested, it would pay to keep vigilant in the years to come, which I intend to. I would hope that my kids will actually want to spend time with me anyway as they get older. I would never want to put them in a position where I am forcing them to against their wishes.
It's the petty things that seem to bother me the most. For example, it's half term holidays this week for the kids, so they're off school. My ex is a teacher so she is off too for the week. I only have today as a bank holiday, so I asked to spend some time with them. I was told that they were busy all day today. Knowing that I only had today to spend with them this week, it seemed fair to allow me time with them as I won't see them at all during the rest of the week. Nothing specific was planned and added to this, my daughter has been watching Netflix for most of the afternoon. I know this as she logs into my account and as I can only watch on one product at a time, it tells me when she's on. I know it seems such a small, petty thing, but it's these that bother me the most. Should I be worried about this? It's these times when I feel I'm slowly being moved out of the picture. I won't see my kids now till Friday and it's my weekend, so I'll do whatever I can to enjoy that time with them.
I don't think that is petty at all, could you imagine the drama if you put mum in the same position? It is infuriating to be in the situation you are in today.
Maybe you could propose a holiday schedule well in advance for Autumn Half Term and Christmas. I'm guessing Summer is already booked. Trying to place a more rigid structure around parts of the informal arrangement might protect against moments like this. If it goes nowhere, her response to your proposal could serve as evidence if you decide a decision from the court is necessary at some point. This is with the age caveats mentioned by Ash.
Maybe you could propose a holiday schedule well in advance for Autumn Half Term and Christmas. I'm guessing Summer is already booked. Trying to place a more rigid structure around parts of the informal arrangement might protect against moments like this. If it goes nowhere, her response to your proposal could serve as evidence if you decide a decision from the court is necessary at some point. This is with the age caveats mentioned by Ash.
I wouldn't hear the end of it if I did the same thing. It is infuriating if I'm being completely honest. Summer holidays haven't yet been confirmed as she's told me due to the new baby due in mid June, it's all a bit up in the air. I haven't yet put in for annual leave buy my employer is pretty flexible with this. Having said that, I will be picking at least 2 weeks of the summer holidays when I'll have them for the week. Holidays away are way too expensive so for me it's a real challenge to keep them busy. I hate being stuck inside all day but most activities are so expensive these days. Just takes a bit of imagination.
I know how you feel keeping a kid occupied with no budget. However, some of the most memorable times we have had were free. Local nature reserves, the sea, the night sky, protests, parades, cooking breakfast on a camping stove in the garden, identifying rocks and fossils, museums and galleries...
There are some great places to go that I have only been able to find by scanning an area on google maps. Free activities don't necessarily have websites or great advertising reach.
Carrying food in a backpack and being flexible with some cheap/free options can turn a day that would cost three figures into a more or less free day out.
I have had to learn this stuff because I often get day time only a long way from home.
There are some great places to go that I have only been able to find by scanning an area on google maps. Free activities don't necessarily have websites or great advertising reach.
Carrying food in a backpack and being flexible with some cheap/free options can turn a day that would cost three figures into a more or less free day out.
I have had to learn this stuff because I often get day time only a long way from home.
As you say it's unreasonable and if you feel you're slowly being moved out of the picture, then I would listen to that instinct. With a court order you would get half of all half terms (if you wanted that time). It's been flexible so far but circumstances have changed, and flexibility now is going to revolve around your ex's view of how she wants her family life to be. She will see herself as the most important lynchpin in her family - as she is having a child. Her partner will be the Father of that child. She will want your shared children to support her as the Mother of that child and show respect for her Motherhood - at a guess. She will become less interested in being reasonable with you and coparenting because she's moving on in a way to having a normal family life. This was the big pull for my ex. She liked having a normal family life with her H and their child and began to feel less inclined to want the "hassle" of separated parenting schedules. Much easier for her if the kids only had one home and she could organise her life around all kids and her H's work pattern and holidays and Dad get thrown the odd carrot. She also tried to move away but I put a stop to that.
It's completely unreasonable not to let the kids come for the one day you are off work at half term. At least they are coming this week-end.
Re your comment you would never want to make the kids come if they didn't want to. Don't fall into that trap. It's important the kids keep up a regular relationship with both parents - it's important to their development and it's not normal for a child to not want to spend time with a parent. But what is very common is for an ex to say - they don't want to come - and mess with your head.