When your ex is cabin crew. (Flight Attendant)

[Pops]

Is it weird to want to know where your daughter is? Especially if the Mother is out of the country?

I have literally done everything to try and facilitate having my daughter more, I am in a stable relationship. I have changed my job to become a remote worker, I am in a stable relationship with 2 Step Children, and all I ask is to keep me informed on my daughters where abouts when my ex isn't in the country.

We have had plenty of tiffs over this matter and I feel like I am insane. Most of my friends don't even have children at my age, let alone grasping the feeling of not knowing who is caring for their child at any given time. This hasn't stopped my ex from reducing the frequency I have my daughter, nor has she stopped giving me information about major decisions involving our daughter until its too late for me to really think things through.

My daughter is now moving school for the 2nd time on short notice, and although I preliminarily thought it might work it has ended up being a worst location for me to get to so I can't take on any extra responsibility and what will proceed is a further reduction in my time.

The last time she moved my daughter, the mother applied under her last name and I had to correct the school and submit my daughters passport to prove that the name was not correct which was followed by accusations of me being a narcissist by controlling the situation.

The latest was a statement, as you are aware I have bought a house and our daughter needs to move school, the meeting is in a few days can you make it? My answer being no, because I didn't have ample time to arrange with my new job.

A few months ago she asked of she could take our daughter to France this week, I said of course. On Monday she said could I have a consent form for Turkey. How can you not mention that the holiday was not France but Turkey?

I'm essentially cut out of every decision and when I don't agree I am curtailed into agreeing as to not go against the status quo that dads don't really have a decision in their child's well being, and just merely need to be informed when it's deemed convenient by our daughters mum.

When I disagree all the key words of blackmail, gaslighting and control appear, yet it has never dawned on my ex to involve me in the process from the inception of a decision where I believe I would be quite a fair conversationalist.

So she is away a lot, and I can literally look after my daughter full time, including school runs. The only caveat being the school would have to be closer to me. But instead I am in a situation where I see my daughter at the weekends, she complains when her mum is vacant, and I do not even want to mention how the conversations go should I ever address this.

I have been told plain and simply, she is the mum and she knows what is best and I can see my daughter at the weekends. Or if she is travelling.

But I can't, because I can not get her to a school so far from me and pick her up, and cover my workload.

Not to mention we have it down to a Tee in our household with my step children's school runs.

My ex does get a lot of downtime where she is home, not working for extended periods of time. But the she is away. Just plain and simple not there, away. Where is my daughter during these times?

I would never stop my ex from seeing our daughter, but I am beginning to believe that trying to our her in a school near me and having primary responsibility whilst my ex is away is a bad idea, because of my existence persistence that a child should never be away from their mother. But yet she leaves our daughter all the time.

I am at the end of my string to put it lightly, I can't carry on with this battle but I know her plan has been to wither me down all along.

I don't want to put our daughter through court, and mediation is literally a joke. She hasn't stuck to the agreement we have now so how is it going to help the next time.

We are planning on re entering mediation but I am not hopeful.

I am just looking for any advice I can get, I just would like my daughter to have a stable life with a family that loves her, and I say that including her mum. Not a life where she sees me on weekends and sees her mum when she isn't working.

It could be she sees me when her mum is working and sees her mum when she isn't working, I just can't seem to get this through to my ex..

Any help or ideas I would be very grateful.

And to the dads out there who try their hardest and are kneecapped at every moment because something hangs between their legs, you are not alone!!

Peace and Love

Pops

 

[Ash]

How old is your daughter and I take it there are no court orders in place? Do you get to see your daughter regularly and often or has the school move reduced your time with her?

 

[Pops]

My Daughter is 4, no court order. Just previous Mediation Agreement.
I went from doing every a 6 week rota that involved 4 Tuesdays, 4 Thursdays & 4 weekends to just 4 weekends.
I do not see my daughter on weekdays now.

 

[Ash]

Ok so your daughter will not be "put through court". She probably won't even know anything about it. Unless your ex tells her and even then she probably won't understand. If she's four she'll be starting primary school proper in September probably? It sounds like your ex pre-planned this - move her to a school further away before school starts proper so you have less time.

How far away is the school from you? More than 45 minutes drive? If the mediation agreement was more like 50/50 you should be able to get that back. I think it's probably too late to change the school now though. So if overnights aren't actually possible you'd be stuck with every other week-end and a midweek tea-time probably - plus half the school holidays - and they are worth having.

So what you'd be going to court for is a Child Arrangements order, with defined dates and times so your ex can't chop and change your schedule. You could have defined holiday weeks as well so you all know when holidays are going to be. The way things are at present, with no court orders, she is acting like the sole resident parent, and if she has been the main parent historically, that would be accepted, and she can then leave the child with who she wants. You could ask for a clause that if she goes abroad, the child is with you, but you might not get it (and it might not be feasible if the school is further away). But an order will give you and your daughter stability. You could apply for "lives with both parents" even if it's less than 50/50 time, which would make you both equal so she can't call all the shots.

 

[Pops]

Ok so your daughter will not be "put through court". She probably won't even know anything about it. Unless your ex tells her and even then she probably won't understand. If she's four she'll be starting primary school proper in September probably? It sounds like your ex pre-planned this - move her to a school further away before school starts proper so you have less time.

How far away is the school from you? More than 45 minutes drive? If the mediation agreement was more like 50/50 you should be able to get that back. I think it's probably too late to change the school now though. So if overnights aren't actually possible you'd be stuck with every other week-end and a midweek tea-time probably - plus half the school holidays - and they are worth having.

So what you'd be going to court for is a Child Arrangements order, with defined dates and times so your ex can't chop and change your schedule. You could have defined holiday weeks as well so you all know when holidays are going to be. The way things are at present, with no court orders, she is acting like the sole resident parent, and if she has been the main parent historically, that would be accepted, and she can then leave the child with who she wants. You could ask for a clause that if she goes abroad, the child is with you, but you might not get it (and it might not be feasible if the school is further away). But an order will give you and your daughter stability. You could apply for "lives with both parents" even if it's less than 50/50 time, which would make you both equal so she can't call all the shots.

Basically everything you have mentioned is in our current agreement, she can not live with both parents if the goal post keeps moving from what has been agreed.
The agreement was based on her work rota, which essentially is fabricated. Holidays aren't an issue, in fact my ex letting me have my daughter isn't the issue.
Being told a few days before my daughter is moving school to make it harder for me to have access is the issue, it's the fact that I have in real terms parental responsibility but in actual terms I have no say in anything.
So what is the point in having parental responsibility if my ex can say half way through the summer hols I'm moving the school, oh sorry I can't go back there is no places. When I say put my daughter through court, you should know if i ended up in court with my ex for whatever reason my daughter will have to go through it because my ex would make sure she tells my daughter how hard done by she is and what I am doing to her.
How can you say that its not reasonable for a child to live with a parent who literally works from home and lives next to a school where my stepchildren also attend and I do the school runs for that whilst my child's mum is out of the country so often? It is actually insane!
Last time I checked consent is required for School moves and Travel abroad. Last time I check consent doesn't work by asking at the last minute and forcing that person to say yes by arguing if they disagree.
The system is rigged, that's for the clarity

 

[Pops]

Basically every time my ex decides to move (2nd time now just for clarity) I have to pick my family up and move them too, without consideration for my families life if I would like to include my daughter.
Yet my ex can have sole resident parent status and leave the country willy nilly, send my daughter around to whoever will have her. And keep me in the dark about my daughters whereabouts.
Great system we have, glad I asked. I'm sure it has nothing to do with the fact that something dangles between my legs.
Anyway thanks for the response, very insightful. Any frustration is dealt towards the system rather than any individual.
Good luck in your endeavours everyone

 

[Peanut 21]

I think the option is to go through the motions of mediation. Get it signed off and apply for a court order.
Your ex is running rings round you and she's getting away with it because an 'agreement' isn't an order.
Every time she's accusing you or being a narcissist or controlling, she's projecting her own personality.
She'll probably say you coerced her into the agreements last time you mediated. Or some other nonsense.

 

[Pops]

I mean she won't just say it probably, she most definitely has already said that.
Yes we will do mediation again, hopefully when she is back from her Holiday.
I'm fed up with doing handover with a bunch of different people that hate my guts, it's not that I care that they hate me for whatever reason either. It's I would never associate with these people but I am essentially forced to because the ex won't be around. For all the things I have said about my ex, she will rarely cause conflict during handover and rightly so. But its hatd to do handovers when you are flying lol so im left with her parents and her Bf who don't stick to that memo.
It's soul draining!
What is the process to convert into an order?
Truth be told I have the financial means to go the whole 9 yards with court, I mean its everything I have ever saved and I probably would be getting rid of the chance of ever upgrading our house but our family is number 1.
Is it even possible to change my daughters school and primary address to mine.
If my ex isn't then working, she can have her.
When my ex is off, I meen she is off. Like long extended periods of days off. I work flexible 8-5 Mon-Fri but as a Salesman, so I do often have client visits etc and I can not lose 2 hours of my working day in my daughters current school location, also help with my Step Children's school runs, help with breakfast, dinner.
It's driving me crazy, all I can say is I have a super supportive partner and I couldn't do it without her, but like me she hasn't been through it practically, her ex is pretty amicable and reasonable when he decides to turn up, and we are more than happy when he can't because we get extra family days. He has a similar job to my ex in terms of schedule, not profession, and he is basically like unfortunately my job doesn't allow me to have the kids at very scheduled time so I can only do a low amount and almost adhoc.
So imagine what it would be like if he had sole residency status and my ex wanted the children more. Would be a whole different story.

 

[Peanut 21]

Court generally is a last resort and you will have to apply to mediation first.
But if mediation fails and one or both parties don't stick to agreements made you apply for a c100.
You don't need to use a solicitor for this and can get advice on here how to fill it out.
Once you apply (with a fee) the court will inform you of a first hearing.
Your ex will be informed also.
The first hearing is to hear any disputes and try to resolve issues before a further hearing.
The best case scenario is coming to an agreement at this stage and having an official order written up with a schedule.
If your ex is malicious expect push back and false allegations.
Hopefully she won't be like that and it won't come to court.

 

[Ash]

The fact you've got it all in an agreement means nothing because she can just change her mind whenever she feels like it. An agreement isn't legally binding, a Child Arrangements order is legally binding. Also it might not go further than the first hearing, as agreement can be thrashed out at the first hearing for a consent order. That's a child arrangements order by agreement. Then it goes no further. It's one reason it can be good to have a lawyer represent you at a first hearing as the lawyers are good at thrashing out agreements. They argue and pressure each other.

The difference is that a Child Arrangements order has warnings on it. And is enforceable. Not complying with it is contempt of court. I wouldn't start knocking the system when you don't have a court order! Mediation is just an agreement which can be changed overnight if one parent doesn't agree any more.

It's common for ex's to ignore your PR and change schools unilaterally, but with a Child Arrangements order you can have a clause added that neither parent will change the school without the written agreement of both parents.

Your mediation agreement will be good evidence for your history of involvement and the previous schedule, and the fact she didn't keep to the agreement so puts you in a better position to get a good order.

Your daughter will have loyalty to both parents. Yes maybe your ex will say various things, but when your daughter is with you, you just present a calm happy environment so she feels secure and if she asks questions you just say it's nothing to worry about - these are things for grown-ups to sort out and some expert people are helping Mummy and Daddy to reach an agreement.

Children also compartmentalise to a degree. When she's with you she will soon slip into her normal life with you each time and forget all the stuff Mummy said. Especially if you keep reassuring her.

 

[Pops]

Court generally is a last resort and you will have to apply to mediation first.
But if mediation fails and one or both parties don't stick to agreements made you apply for a c100.
You don't need to use a solicitor for this and can get advice on here how to fill it out.
Once you apply (with a fee) the court will inform you of a first hearing.
Your ex will be informed also.
The first hearing is to hear any disputes and try to resolve issues before a further hearing.
The best case scenario is coming to an agreement at this stage and having an official order written up with a schedule.
If your ex is malicious expect push back and false allegations.
Hopefully she won't be like that and it won't come to court.

Thank You, I have once had the pleasure of wasting my money on a solicitor so I will try and avoid that this time.
I am in manage my expectations mode as I just want to be civil, whilst trying to secure a future that is less chop and change.
I will definitely be using the resources on this forum. Glad I found it

 

[Pops]

The fact you've got it all in an agreement means nothing because she can just change her mind whenever she feels like it. An agreement isn't legally binding, a Child Arrangements order is legally binding. Also it might not go further than the first hearing, as agreement can be thrashed out at the first hearing for a consent order. That's a child arrangements order by agreement. Then it goes no further. It's one reason it can be good to have a lawyer represent you at a first hearing as the lawyers are good at thrashing out agreements. They argue and pressure each other.

The difference is that a Child Arrangements order has warnings on it. And is enforceable. Not complying with it is contempt of court. I wouldn't start knocking the system when you don't have a court order! Mediation is just an agreement which can be changed overnight if one parent doesn't agree any more.

It's common for ex's to ignore your PR and change schools unilaterally, but with a Child Arrangements order you can have a clause added that neither parent will change the school without the written agreement of both parents.

Your mediation agreement will be good evidence for your history of involvement and the previous schedule, and the fact she didn't keep to the agreement so puts you in a better position to get a good order.

Your daughter will have loyalty to both parents. Yes maybe your ex will say various things, but when your daughter is with you, you just present a calm happy environment so she feels secure and if she asks questions you just say it's nothing to worry about - these are things for grown-ups to sort out and some expert people are helping Mummy and Daddy to reach an agreement.

Children also compartmentalise to a degree. When she's with you she will soon slip into her normal life with you each time and forget all the stuff Mummy said. Especially if you keep reassuring her.

Thank you for the explanation, just need to get the ball rolling and come up with a good solution.
Fingers crossed the ex wants the same too, even if it feels differently sometimes.
Hopefully the mediation is arranged for the next few weeks and this time I will definitely go for the Child Arrangements Order too.
I have seen a lot of good resources on this forum so I am really glad I found it.
Sorry for the rant at times, it had just really bogged me down.

 

[bujanin]

Aspects of my situation are similar to yours. One thing is for sure. The courts do not like a child of this age being left with people other than the parents, on the regular. You are able to offer stability.

 

[Pops]

Aspects of my situation are similar to yours. One thing is for sure. The courts do not like a child of this age being left with people other than the parents, on the regular. You are able to offer stability.

Well if you have any tips I would be all ears.
Currently as you may have read my next step is to re do mediation, and get a child arrangement order after that. I know she won't give me any leeway in mediation so what ever child arrangement order is made won't actually help the situation I am in, I guess it will be a little less chop and change.
If you have any clarity beyond that it would be useful.

 

[bujanin]

I can't really add to the inputs from Ash and Peanut but I am letting you know that the courts do not like the idea of a child, especially one this young, being looked after by people other than the parents without good reason. So I would suggest using this point once you get moving with the process of obtaining a care order which seems necessary given the mothers totally disrespectful behaviour towards you, the childs father.

' Here I am, able to provide stability and familiarity to our daughters life when the mother goes off on her travels - if the mother and child were living closer to me. I can be flexible and get her to school, to bed, feed her and be a father. Our 50/50 shared care order - 2255 or 77 - could be built around the mothers working schedule which she will undoubetdly know well in advance. I can provide one of two secure and comfortable homes with half brothers and/or half sisters. It is clearly in our daughters best interests to have continuity and the care of one parent at all times. Not to be farmed out to be looked after by people unknown to me her father.'

 

[Pops]

Thank you for your hope, I have struggled for almost 2 years with this. Every one I have spoken or had advice from including the last Mediators has applied very general understandings towards who can have the primary care in our situation and I have felt at odds the whole time. When you are constantly told it doesn't matter if she is not in the country, she is the mum and she can decide who is best to care for her child it puts me in a position why potentially spend all this money just to be shut down.
Even if it fails, I will move full steam ahead. Would you use a barrister for your hearing?

 

[bujanin]

Thank you for your hope, I have struggled for almost 2 years with this. Every one I have spoken or had advice from including the last Mediators has applied very general understandings towards who can have the primary care in our situation and I have felt at odds the whole time. When you are constantly told it doesn't matter if she is not in the country, she is the mum and she can decide who is best to care for her child it puts me in a position why potentially spend all this money just to be shut down.
Even if it fails, I will move full steam ahead. Would you use a barrister for your hearing?

There have been guys on here who have had the right outcome without the use of a barrister (see DadLad's thread and his achievment to name but the most recent). But I don't have the capabilities and my case has been very tricky. The general feeling is that if you can use a barrister do so. You seem to be in a strong position so perhaps the support of somebody who knows the system could be the difference.

And you are a new member here. There is a lot of shared experience and reading to be accessed here that will throw up nuggets that will help you see things differently or to shine some light. Obviously each case has it's own specifics but I'm speaking in general terms.

Yes the mother is still seen as the best person for the child to be with in the UK unless there are certain issues but that doesn't mean that 5050 shared care is not possible unless there are certain issues. But I maintain from my experience that a four year old left without a parent for regular periods of time, when there is a parent wanting to care for that child, is not viewed as a desirable situation by CAFCASS or the family courts. Abandonment issues, confusion etc.