What should Child Maintenance Cover?

[RichiePerr]

I have paid c. £900-£1000 pm without fail each month in Child Maintenance to my exwife for my 2 teenage daughters. This amount is in line with the CSA calculation.

However, in addition, I pay £30 pm for contact lenses, £60 pm for dance lessons and £75pm (50%) contribution towards bus pass for daughter to go to school.

My exwife recently made a claim to CSA claiming that I was under-declaring my income. This claim has been concluded and I proved that I was not misdeclaring and as a result my monthly payments have remained the same.

However - as a result of this experience, I have received advice which suggests that the additional costs I have listed (namely contact lenses and bus fare to/from school) should be covered by the Child Maintenance.

I am aware that I cannot request a breakdown of what the Child Maintenance is used for by my exwife, but I find it hard to explain how there would be no change from £1000 pm after paying for food and clothes for 2 teenage girls?

I should also mention that I pay half of the mortgage on the family home (£900 pm) and have retained a 49% share. The house must be sold when my youngest reaches 21 (7 years time).

Please can anyone advise re the bus fare and contact lenses? Should these be covered by the child maintenance payment?

Thanks for any advice.

 

[capa]

I should also mention that I pay half of the mortgage on the family home (£900 pm) and have retained a 49% share. The house must be sold when my youngest reaches 21 (7 years time).

im soon to be in similar situation or could be, house is in sole name, mine, yet ex still lives there with son, is your arrangement and amicable one or a mesher order regarding the age to activate the sale?

 

[RichiePerr]

Hi -
My situation is definitely not amicable…..
The agreement re the house was part of the divorce settlement.
The house is in joint names. I’d always paid all the mortgage while I lived there and had also put in £150k of equity from my previous properties, whilst my exwife put in £0 and didn’t work during our marriage.
However - it was agreed that I’d move out and pay 50% of the mortgage and the house would be sold when my youngest reaches 21 (in 7 years), at which point equity is split 51:49 in her favour.
Hope this helps.

 

[capa]

mine i think wil not be amicable, but am open to be surprised, my solicitor gave , as an example sell house when son turns 18, or if ex moves new partner in, i will ask though if 21 is possible especially if the mesher order is activated , but thanks anyway

 

[Roblox]

You're under no legal obligation to pay more than the child maintenance calculator

The rest is your choice really

 

[Roblox]

If you're paying out 1500 a month on child maintenance and a house you don't live in how are you getting on month to month.

Are you living with family

 

[RichiePerr]

If you're paying out 1500 a month on child maintenance and a house you don't live in how are you getting on month to month.

Are you living with family

I’m fortunate to earn sufficient to rent an apartment -

 

[Ash]

Is the 50% of the mortgage court ordered as part of the divorce? As a kind of spousal payment?

As mentioned about, you're only obliged to pay the assessed rate from the CMS. Anything else is voluntary and it could be deemed to be a "family based arrangement" in total as you're paying more than the assessed rate.

Teenagers do have quite a few costs and requirements, and paying half for dance lessons and bus fares sounds reasonable. Paying half the mortgage doesn't seem reasonable. Unless it's court ordered.

Do you get to see your girls regularly and is there a Child Arrangements order in place. Because your ex might decide to cause problems with you seeing your daughters if you decide to pay less. I'm in a similar situation. It's kind of leverage on both sides. I think she won't stop me seeing my son in case I reduce the level of Child maintenance. She sends him asking me to pay for extra things with the hinted threat that if I don't I may see him less. Roll on 18.

 

[Peanut 21]

So your youngest is 14. I guess those 7 years until she's 21 will fly by. Can you grin and bear paying these extras until then?
The dance lessons won't go on much longer (kids grow out of stuff), the bus passes will end after school/college and contact lenses not too big an out going.
Hopefully in few years they can get part time jobs and start paying for their own things.

 

[Roblox]

As mentioned above unless there's some kind of spousal maintenance in play I think in theory you could ask for the mortgage payments to be deducted against maintenance on basis you aren't living there

But obviously that would have a potential down side in terms of ex going nuclear etc

 

[RichiePerr]

Thank you all for your kind replies.

To clarify -

I pay 50% of the mortgage. This was one of the terms negotiated as part of the divorce settlement. I opted to take this option, rather than pay spousal support, as to me, spousal support can vary/fluctuate depending on the ex-wife’s “needs”.

Also as part of the divorce agreement, I agreed to pay Child Maintenance was paid as per the CSA calculator.

I agreed that the house could be retained until my youngest daughter reaches 21, although I could’ve insisted on 18.

My ex-wife has used emotional blackmail to extort the “extras” - and in order to avoid breaking my daughters hearts, I have paid additional amounts on top of the child maintenance.

However, my ex-wife (after making further attempts to extort more money - including sending me a photo of one of my daughters shoes with a hole in it and asking for money for a new pair…. Or telling the girls that “Daddy won’t pay the Vet’s bill, so if the cat dies, it’s his fault..”) recently made a claim to the CSA as she believed I was under paying her….. the case was concluded - and I was paying by the right amount.

My question is - based on me paying £1000 pm child maintenance and £800 pm towards the mortgage - should I also be paying for extras, such as the bus fare £75 pm?

Hope this clarifies -

Thanks again

 

[Roblox]

The short answer is no you don't have to.

From your posts it sounds like you're ok with paying the mortgage and maintenance.

Your ex sounds very entitled. Still wants to use you as a cash cow.

Are you seeing the kids

 

[RichiePerr]

Is the 50% of the mortgage court ordered as part of the divorce? As a kind of spousal payment?

As mentioned about, you're only obliged to pay the assessed rate from the CMS. Anything else is voluntary and it could be deemed to be a "family based arrangement" in total as you're paying more than the assessed rate.

Teenagers do have quite a few costs and requirements, and paying half for dance lessons and bus fares sounds reasonable. Paying half the mortgage doesn't seem reasonable. Unless it's court ordered.

Do you get to see your girls regularly and is there a Child Arrangements order in place. Because your ex might decide to cause problems with you seeing your daughters if you decide to pay less. I'm in a similar situation. It's kind of leverage on both sides. I think she won't stop me seeing my son in case I reduce the level of Child maintenance. She sends him asking me to pay for extra things with the hinted threat that if I don't I may see him less. Roll on 18.

Hi Ash - yes, our situations do sound similar.

My message has been prompted by my ex-wife’s decision to make a formal claim to the CSA. This has made me reassess what I pay.
The CSA were actually very sympathetic. When I outlined what extras I pay for, they suggested that most of it (bus fare and contact lenses etc) should be covered by child maintenance.

They did question how my ex wife used the £1000 pm, as this is surely more than enough to feed/clothe 2 girls?

Hence my question - can I/should I now refuse to pay these extras, following the CSA’s ruling re the amount of child maintenance I should be paying?

 

[RichiePerr]

The short answer is no you don't have to.

From your posts it sounds like you're ok with paying the mortgage and maintenance.

Your ex sounds very entitled. Still wants to use you as a cash cow.

Are you seeing the kids

Thanks - yes my ex wife didn’t work for the majority of our marriage. We divorced 4 years ago -

I remarried last year and this has served to increase my ex wife’s demands for more money. I received texts saying “it’s alright for you now with 2 salaries”, or “how can you afford to go to that restaurant, you must be earning a lot more than you claim…” etc.

Then out of the blue, she made a claim to the CSA - and it was concluded that I was paying the right amount.

So, I’m now questioning the goodwill I have shown throughout by paying all the extras. My concern is that, the more goodwill/extras I pay, the more she asks for. So, I wanted to establish my “rights” to say - I pay the maintenance according to the CSA ruling - and not a penny more.

 

[Roblox]

Ah. The green eyed monster!

Out of interest (not that it matters) was the separation and divorce based on an event or something over time. Who wanted the divorce.

Be ready to be told you only pay 'the minimum' and the kids to be used as emotional blackmail. Although sounds like that is happening already.

You may need to tell her going forward you aren't willing to talk about finances but just the kids. Given their ages I'm assuming you aren't looking at getting a court order etc as they are too old. Do you see then much?

 

[Peanut 21]

You could be eating at the Ritz every night and it's none of her business as she's getting enough from you.
I'm guessing as the girls are getting older, she's panicking that times running out to keep getting money off of you. She only has 7 years to go!

 

[RichiePerr]

Ah. The green eyed monster!

Out of interest (not that it matters) was the separation and divorce based on an event or something over time. Who wanted the divorce.

Be ready to be told you only pay 'the minimum' and the kids to be used as emotional blackmail. Although sounds like that is happening already.

You may need to tell her going forward you aren't willing to talk about finances but just the kids. Given their ages I'm assuming you aren't looking at getting a court order etc as they are too old. Do you see then much?

The divorce was at her request.

She had a fling (which I didn’t discover until after we separated).

She has attempted to stop me seeing my daughters a few times - but since they’ve got older this has stopped.

I see them every weekend - for the entire weekend on alternate weeks and on Friday nights on the intervening weeks.

She is an alcoholic and (according to my eldest daughter), is drinking a bottle of wine per night - (so spending a min of £200 pm on alcohol).

 

[Roblox]

The divorce was at her request.

She had a fling (which I didn’t discover until after we separated).

She has attempted to stop me seeing my daughters a few times - but since they’ve got older this has stopped.

I see them every weekend - for the entire weekend on alternate weeks and on Friday nights on the intervening weeks.

She is an alcoholic and (according to my eldest daughter), is drinking a bottle of wine per night - (so spending a min of £200 pm on alcohol).

Yeah you just need to boundary this. From what you're saying the kids know what she's like so it's not like she can use that as leverage.

It sounds like things haven't panned out as she'd expected or presumably hoped. You've moved on and maybe she now has regrets but doesn't want to face up to her own actions.

 

[Ash]

I think I would play this as subtley as possible. There is resentment and spite in the background - you're remarried, happy and both have incomes. I am surprised the divorce settlement didn;t include a clause that said she had to be retrained and working within 3 to 5 years (spousal usually only lasts that long to allow the ex to retrain and get good employment). So are you tied into paying half the mortgage until the youngest is 21 as well?

Ok so half the mortgage is ordered as part of the divorce, in lieu of spousal (but kind of spousal) and that has to be paid.
Child Maintenance at the assessed rate has to be paid.
Anything else, you weigh up along with your kids wellbeing and any benefits it gives you.

If you get to take them to dance class and have quality time as part of that, I'd continue paying for it. Half a bus pass is reasonable. Technically CM is supposed to cover ALL the childrens needs, which it may do at primary school, but a lot of parents go halves on secondary school costs which are higher - eg sharing the cost of uniform and transport (and school trips which can be very expensive).

She failed in her bid to get CM increased so you have that satisfaction. And can then take each circumstance as it comes. You're getting good time with your girls and stability with that and the ex could turn very nasty and stress them and everyone else out. And even if they are loyal and come regardless, it could still cause a lot of pressure and stress for them.

So it's balancing things out. I think I'd be inclined to be polite and courteous but be prepared to draw a line somewhere at some point. But don't let it get fractious and hostile.

Teenagers are expensive and want all sorts, including certain brands of trainers etc. But keep an eye on it so it doesn't get out of hand.

Her sending you a photo of shoes with holes in is a bit manipulative. But a response to that could be

"That certainly looks like a new pair of shoes is needed. I can take her out to get some on Saturday, on this occasion, and perhaps you can provide the PE trainers" (or whatever other footwear she needs).

In other words, politely suggest yes you will but not every time or on every occasion.

I've had to deal with things like that myself, and although I am complaining about all the extra things I needed to buy, my ex did also buy a lot. For a particular school trip with equipment, specialist clothing etc. So I accepted it was part of teenage life. And it gets expensive.

On the other hand I enjoyed the benefit of going out to buy the stuff with him and choosing it.

They themselves will ask for expensive stuff and if one parent won't get it they ask the other one! With a couple of expensive items my son wanted I said I would pay half and he'd have to save up for the other half.

 

[Ash]

Edit - what I won't do though is just send the ex money! I say fine I'll take him out to buy some.