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Variation to CAO

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DaddyDaycare

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Hi all,

I have a question which hopefully you can help with. I have 2 children, who are 12 and 10 (but very nearly 13 and 11).

We have a CAO which means I have them on Weds nights, every other weekend Fri after school to Mon morning and half the school holidays. The CAO has been in place for 3 years, in court I asked for Tues and Weds nights, and the court said no as the single Monday would be too disruptive, this was 3 years ago. Before the CAO I had the children on Tues and Weds nights, but not Sun nights on my weekend and not half the school holidays, so it was a loss and a win I guess.

Since then, the children have constantly asked me to spend another night in the week with me, which would make it 50/50. I think the best chance of this happening would be to have a Thurs night too. However, obviously, my ex is very against this and won't agree.

My question is, is there much point me going back to court? I understand it's unlikely Cafcass will do a wishes report, which is frustrating as I'm sure the children would tell them they wanted another night in the week with me.

Thanks in advance and I welcome your thoughts.
 
Hi,

I think you have very good access already, I previously had similar access until my ex took the matter to court 3 times and reduced my access each time to now Monday after School until 7pm and every other Sunday for 4 hours only, no access in the School Holidays aside from the Sunday. This was purely driven by getting more money from me under CMS as now I have no overnight access. I would just leave it as it is to be honest, you might end up with less access!

I'm due back in court soon as the 2 year barring order to prevent any more court applications expires on March 1st. Last time I was in court CafCass wanted to restrict me to 2 hours access in a contact centre 20 miles away every other weekend, I count myself lucky the judge didn't agree and gave me at least some form of regular access which I will now take to court to improve.

I've learnt to always put the children first and state that in court at all times, last time when asked by the judge why I was there (Apart from having to be there due to the ex's CAO Application), I stated I was there for my children to have access to me, not for me to have access to them, if I had been more prepared I would have fought for better access and some form of access in the holidays.

At the time as my son was 13 it was decided not to make him part of the CAO and he could come and see me whenever he wanted to, sadly this is almost never these days, as the court decided the children should live with the ex I barely see him. My daughter who wants to come and see me more is restricted so I'm gong to try and fix that and get the CAO removed or agree a much more flexible arrangement for her.

I'm not sure it's wise to have the children going to and from 2 houses when they are at School, my daughter has been self-harming very recently and stated she struggles with having to go to two different houses, I concluded last time I was in court it was better for them for stability etc to live with the ex for their benefit, I miss them terribly but it's much more about them really and what makes them happy.
 
I agree that @DaddyDaycare access sounds good (similar to mine) - but every time you go back to court (including for a variation) you run the risk of your Ex using the opportunity to REDUCE your time.. So it's a tough call.

I'm interested @Greeners - did you ever have a joint "lives with" Order (previously known as joint custody) or was it always a "lives with Mother, spends time with Father"?

And did you self represent all three times or did you have a barrister?
 
Hi Danny K,

Was previously a live with both parents order initially, I was fighting a without notice non-molestation order at the time with a Solicitor and a Barrister but ran out of money so self represented all the CAO court action, did the final NMO hearing on my own, cross examined by her barrister, was a nerve wracking experience but I "won" in so much as the NMO was overturned but I'd lost a lot by then, limited access to the kids, parental alienation, all the things you would expect and seem all too familiar on this forum.

I really wish I'd known about this forum at the time, it's a minefield out there, I had zero experience of the family court up until the point a bailiff turned up at the house and issued me with 82 pages of court documents, that's maybe a story for a different thread !
 
Due to their ages, it might be worth holding out until they're a bit older when they can be more decisive about seeing you.
I'd say from 14/15 they're at a point they should be able to say 'mum I'm going to see dad after school' (if that's do-able obviously) or 'dad said I can stay over Friday night'.
I know it's not always that simple as exs can be difficult but if your kids are strong enough to go against their mum, hopefully the above scenarios might happen.
 
Is the current order lives with both parents or spends time with you? As others have said, you already have a good order. But I completely understand the unnatural rushed situation of a single overnight. Although you can get used to it and make it work.

I think you would get the same answer as before. If you want two consecutive midweek nights, it needs to Monday and Tuesday or Wednesday and Thursday. To make a 2-2-5-5 pattern.

If they are nearly 11 and 13 I don't think it's a good idea going back to court. Presumably you'd be relying on what they say to Cafcass? But they will no doubt be put under enormous pressure by the Mother, guilt tripped and all sorts - to say what she wants. It would increase hostility and impact on the kids.

I agree with Peanut. I would stick with what you've got and say to the kids - when you're a bit older you can decide for yourselves.
 
Thanks for all the help guys, it's a Lives With Mother order and with the current workload my worry is that Cafcass wouldn't actually talk to the children, which is what a solicitor said to me, and it then becomes a he says/she says situation, which last time we went to the family court they were very, very mother biased.

Sounds like I just leave it for a couple more years then tbh.
 
Not sure I agree with your solicitor there. Cafcass do speak to the kids if a section 7 report is ordered, Taking child's wishes and feelings is a pretty essential part of any court hearing now. Section 7's are done willy nilly. But that doesn't mean it'll help your case. They may not feel free to say what they really want to say. Is your ex the type to get very hostile as well? If you applied to court again?
 
Last time a Section 7 report wasn't ordered, so I'm not sure why it would be now? They said as there are no safeguarding concerns one isn't needed, and nothing has changed.

My ex would be very hostile yes, and she will definitely try and reduce my time if anything imo.
 
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