Use of social services to stop arrangements order

[Purch74]

Hi all, new member here…. Just wanted to seek advice on an awful situation I’m currently in.

I had my final hearing in January and got my alternate weekends and a midweek overnight. This has kicked in now.

My ex wasn’t happy at all that I got this and spouted a lot of lies trying to get the case adjourned etc which failed thankfully but I’m now left with an extremely bitter and dangerous ex.

About 6 weeks ago she accused me of abuse to my 2 year old, as my daughter had rawness on her privates, can’t believe I’m even writing this…. Anyway it went to social services and they stopped me having my midweek overnight for that week ; it turned out the doctors said the rawness was a reaction to bubble bath or something like that so my contact continued straight away. Social services came to see me and my daughter at my house which went really well as I knew it would and the case was closed a few weeks back.

My ex has now done the same again, messaged me this week saying that 9 days prior my daughter has the same rawness and she’s been to social services again, I called them and they again have to investigate the same disgusting claims, and I’ve lost my overnight again on their advice, apparently they told me today that my ex has also got the police involved.

The allegations are clearly not true; I have been through cafcass as standard , who have closed the case she is very well cared for by me(the social worker who came to see me said as much today on the phone) and I’m just really worried what is happening to my little girl after she goes home from my care, she will be missing me a lot and it seems that to bypass the court order my ex just needs to say something to social services whenever she sees fit.

I’m concerned she is creating a rash for example to make it look like it’s me that’s responsible and I wouldn’t put anything past her!

My question is, is there anything I can do about this, can i take legal action? Can I apply to courts again and tell them what’s happening?

My ex has a lot of deep rooted issues from her childhood, she has severe adhd that she takes medication for and that impacts her controlling behaviour badly, she’s just pulled my daughter out of a perfectly good nursery as she accused the nursery nurse of assault twice and she is just not getting the consistency a child of her age deserves.

I also have an 8 year old girl from a previous relationship whom i spend a fair amount of time with and nothing like this has ever been brought into my life ever before.

Any advise would be much appreciated

Thanks

L

 

[Roblox]

Sorry to hear this.

So if I understand it you're going through social services for a second time and not having overnights. This is all post going through court.

I had similar in the sense my ex tried to pull a fast one after we'd been through court and I had an order in place.

In my case it went via support workers and I don't think they took it that seriously. It didn't get to social worker level.

I assume the difference here is obviously the seriousness of the allegation.

When I dealt with the support worker team they did say that the same issue couldn't be investigated twice.

Once you've been through the investigations this time I wonder if you should reach out to the support worker team in your area and raise this. Explain your concerns so you then have something on file for future reference. As this is below social worker level it's not viewed that seriously and the emphasis is more on reaching sensible agreement.

I think you can go back to court for enforcement orders. Others have more experience on this but I believe it can be costly and can involve a number of visits/ enforcements.

 

[Ash]

Hi. I had similar things after a final order as well. I agree, that after you have gone through this a second time (and ask for a copy of the closure report from social services), then go back to court. I'd suggest an application to vary for equal shared care, 50/50, highlighting the ex frustrating the order, obstructing time and causing emotional harm to the child by making false allegations. You probably won't get 50/50 but the process will scare her, in case you do. But you might well get "lives with both parents" even if it's less than 50/50 (this is what I did). Meanwhile see if you can get something in writing about the allegations she made to the nursery. Perhaps email the nursery and say how grateful you are for the care your child had when with them and you are sorry they had these accusations and you want them to know that you don't support those accusations and have had no issues with them at all. Hopefully you'll get a reply of some sort. You can later use your email and their reply as evidence (rather than just saying - ex made allegations about nursery workers which could just sound like mudslinging). The emails verify that what you say, is the case.

Yes it's gut wrenching knowing your child will be anxious and stressed about not seeing you. Unfortunately social services advise Mothers to "safeguard" and withold a child, if they make allegations so some Mothers abuse the system. Have social services spoken to you at all since this happened. I would put something in writing to them politely and say that there is a court order in place made on x day, and as part of that process it was established that there are no welfare issues with you. That similar allegations were made on x date which were dismissed by the GP and you request social services keep this letter on file in case there are any further allegations made against you, as you do feel Mrs Ex is simply frustrating the court order because she was not happy with the outcome of the court case, which the court found in your favour.

Meanwhile just wait to deal with the police. It's sick isn't it? Hopefully it will get resolved via a Doctor again.

Keep us posted. Do you have a police interview coming up? If you get asked to go for a police interview, get a criminal solicitor to go with you - you can get one free if you're accused of something.

The advantage of getting "lives with both parents" is it means the court has taken something away from her - ie the "parent with care" sole residency status. Which is a strong message that if she continues to do such things she might lose more next time.

I had to go back to court twice after my final hearing. She breached the order straight away (which I couldn't enforce as you need the sealed order in your hand to enforce it), and within two months had to do an urgent prohibited steps application as she said she was moving away. As part of that I asked for child to live with me if she decided to move and that made her back down at the hearing (along with some pressure from the Judge who could see what was what).

By the third time they made a strong judgement against her which, had I returned to court again, should have been enough to lead to a transfer of residency. Main thing is to try and keep the child out of it and show them normal behaviour when with you.

 

[KG70]

Hi. I had similar things after a final order as well. I agree, that after you have gone through this a second time (and ask for a copy of the closure report from social services), then go back to court. I'd suggest an application to vary for equal shared care, 50/50, highlighting the ex frustrating the order, obstructing time and causing emotional harm to the child by making false allegations. You probably won't get 50/50 but the process will scare her, in case you do. But you might well get "lives with both parents" even if it's less than 50/50 (this is what I did). Meanwhile see if you can get something in writing about the allegations she made to the nursery. Perhaps email the nursery and say how grateful you are for the care your child had when with them and you are sorry they had these accusations and you want them to know that you don't support those accusations and have had no issues with them at all. Hopefully you'll get a reply of some sort. You can later use your email and their reply as evidence (rather than just saying - ex made allegations about nursery workers which could just sound like mudslinging). The emails verify that what you say, is the case.

Yes it's gut wrenching knowing your child will be anxious and stressed about not seeing you. Unfortunately social services advise Mothers to "safeguard" and withold a child, if they make allegations so some Mothers abuse the system. Have social services spoken to you at all since this happened. I would put something in writing to them politely and say that there is a court order in place made on x day, and as part of that process it was established that there are no welfare issues with you. That similar allegations were made on x date which were dismissed by the GP and you request social services keep this letter on file in case there are any further allegations made against you, as you do feel Mrs Ex is simply frustrating the court order because she was not happy with the outcome of the court case, which the court found in your favour.

Meanwhile just wait to deal with the police. It's sick isn't it? Hopefully it will get resolved via a Doctor again.

Keep us posted. Do you have a police interview coming up? If you get asked to go for a police interview, get a criminal solicitor to go with you - you can get one free if you're accused of something.

The advantage of getting "lives with both parents" is it means the court has taken something away from her - ie the "parent with care" sole residency status. Which is a strong message that if she continues to do such things she might lose more next time.

I had to go back to court twice after my final hearing. She breached the order straight away (which I couldn't enforce as you need the sealed order in your hand to enforce it), and within two months had to do an urgent prohibited steps application as she said she was moving away. As part of that I asked for child to live with me if she decided to move and that made her back down at the hearing (along with some pressure from the Judge who could see what was what).

By the third time they made a strong judgement against her which, had I returned to court again, should have been enough to lead to a transfer of residency. Main thing is to try and keep the child out of it and show them normal behaviour when with you.

Ash, do you have 50/50?

 

[Ash]

No I had lives with both parents for less than 50/50 but partly because I had had the same schedule for many years and it was negotiated by consent at final hearing. I had to compromise to get the lives with both parents.

 

[DannyK]

Hello @Purch74

I had a very similar experience.

I won EOW, a midweek teatime and half holidays, then about 6 months later my Ex took our (then) 3yr old daughter to the GP with 'marks and bruises' following a holiday with me.

A social services investigation was conducted (without my knowledge as my Ex has convinced our daughter's GP I'm a dangerous abuser, so the GP said it would be a safeguarding concern if I were made aware), and so I only found out about it 3 months later after the investigation was concluded.

A whole load of new, awful (false) allegations were made but the SW interviewed daughter at nursery, and the nursery team, who apparently spoke quite fondly about me and my relationship with my little girl.

So I was lucky, but also I have been careful to nurture a positive relationship with my daughter's nursery team - in particular, avoiding mudslinging against Ex to them.

The investigation report made for difficult reading, but I was then advised to write a letter to the SW saying that whilst I was pleased that I was 'exonerated', that I felt I should respond to each of the allegations, which I did in a non-adversarial way. Just so there would be a record of this for any future SW investigations (which I suspect there will be).

Beyond that, I'm afraid I don't have much advice other than to treat any interactions with the social workers like a CAFCASS call (being very calm and non-adversarial about Ex) and to try and have the best relationship you can with the nursery staff who will be spoken to in the case of (another) investigation.

Good luck!

 

[Purch74]

Thanks everyone so much for taking the time to help



Update, well there isn’t really one, not had a convo with SS since I posted, called them today and they never called back.



I called the police, they couldn’t tell me anything, just said they will be in touch if they need to be…they haven’t.



It’s my pick up from nursery tomorrow at 130, as yet I’ve not been told not to collect her. It’s my weekend as the the arrangements order.



I’ve emailed SS with an in depth view of my thoughts, I’ve told them about my ex’s mental health issues and a few things that sort of shows why she is behaving like this, in a nutshell she is a major control freak who wants everything done her way and if it’s not she does extreme things like this. Don’t think there is any low she wouldn’t sink to clearly.

I’ve made it clear my genuine concerns about what this is going to do to my daughter mentally.



I’ve not seen her now for 9 days after being a constant in her life, she gets so excited when she sees me at nursery, it’s clear for all the staff to see , to respond to a point about nursery, i think social services visited her there last time this came up about 3 weeks ago and the case was very quickly closed.



She has been getting upset when I’ve been taking her home as well because she has a lot of fun with me and rarely wants to leave; obviously I have my eldest daughter from another mum with me, so she’s also being kept away from her.



It’s so upsetting that the system can just allow any allegation time and time over to impact a court order, I’ll certainly be pursuing enforcing it so thanks for the advice! I’ll be asking for more time as well of course because I am genuinely worried about her mums ability to look after her mentally!



Just to answer a few points raised, I have emailed the old nursery, as yet nothing back.



I can’t get my head around how I’m completely kept in the dark about what is going on with my own daughter, I have my 7 year old asking me where she is, and I can’t answer her. They can’t even tell me if the police involvement is relating to me, they can’t say what the allegations are, even though I can read between the lines. It’s a shame I can’t sue for things like this as a way to prevent it reoccurring!



I asked a solicitor for legal advice, they said they see this more often than they should, said they can possibly help, and then wanted £420 for an hours “chat” with me to discuss my options, I simply don’t have that.



Again, thank you for taking the time to respond.



Hopefully tomorrow brings better news

 

[Ash]

When I had legal advice on a situation like this it was - just cooperate with social services and let the prices take its course. It’s about all you can do.

Yes it would be nice to sue for false allegations wouldn’t it? But even super rich celebrities can’t achieve that when it’s a child matter between parents.

 

[Purch74]

My word, had social and the police on today, they had a meeting and they have basically said they are closing the case down, but have to dot the I’s and cross the t’s!



They left it up to mum whether or not I had my weekend with my daughter as the case is still officially open and she chose to not let me have her despite her not seeing me now for nearly 2 weeks…course she did!!



The police told me what had happened, she took her to the doctors twice; both times the doc said it was either like nappy rash or just a hygeine things common in young girls; but she went over their head and went to the police anyway and accused me of sexual harm!!



Absolutely disgusting, blatant attempts to do anything she can to upset the court order and the upsetting thing is…it works!!



I’m going to see if I have any case at all to claim that she’s unfit mentally to bring my daughter up, I just know it’s not going to be the last time she pulls a stunt like this! Clearly doesn’t have my girls best interest at heart if she can manipulate the situation and make her be away from me for so long when I have been a constant in her life! Some people!!!



Thanks again for the advice all!



Onwards and upwards hopefully.

 

[Ash]

Glad to hear they’re closing the case. To be honest I think it would be a very bad move to accuse her of mental health issues - that would be seen as you being hostile towards her. What’s better is to just have all this up your sleeve as a reason to go back to court for 50/50 shared care in 9 months to a year’s time. Build up more evidence for that. Let her make the allegations and have them disproved but better not to make counter allegations. Also the court are more likely to see it as a disruptive ex rather than mental health issues.

She may well have mental health issues but it doesn’t look good if it comes from you. It’s more likely to be premeditated though to try and get out of the court order.

 

[MagicJ]

Good to hear it's been closed down, what an incredibly stressful situation for a person to stop so low and accuse that type of behaviour of another parent.

Having documented evidence of several beaches shows consistent behaviour patterns, you're more likely to get a successful variation

 

[Ash]

Good point about the breaches MagicJ. If she doesn't start following the order again now then you should enforce it.

 

[Purch74]

Hi all, never ending this.

So the case has been closed by social, the police haven’t been in touch but told me Friday that it was all being closed down.

Was supposed to have my daughter tonight for the first time in two weeks and the mum has said no, said I’ll be hearing from her solicitor, I have no idea what it could possibly be about.

Been a constant in my girls 2.5 years and now she’s not seen me for what feels like forever; the court order is now being breached already.

Doesn’t look like I have much choice but to take it back to court and pay a barrister thousands to get it enforced, just hope she gets slapped with some sort of penalty to make her think twice about this again!

I am worried that she is a flight risk as she’s clearly prepared to stop at nothing to disrupt this court order. Not putting my daughter first at all, the system does seem to fail you in these circumstances

 

[Pj66]

Ok so her little sexual assault facade didn't work and now she's just saying no, enforce the order, ask for costs. If she breaks it again, apply to vary.

 

[NewcastleBrownAle]

I have managed to protect myself from false allegation regarding my young child. I have a small group of friends who stay with me during my time with my child, who can vouch for what happens and doesn't happen. During my section 7 interview, CAFCASS were impressed with this approach as it does tend to stop false allegations of this sort. Even if it is not all the time, your ex will not know when you have or dont have a chaperone.

 

[Peanut 21]

Don't hesitate to put in a c79.
You can attach all the paperwork proving the case has been closed with SS and police.

 

[bujanin]

Hi all, never ending this.

So the case has been closed by social, the police haven’t been in touch but told me Friday that it was all being closed down.

Was supposed to have my daughter tonight for the first time in two weeks and the mum has said no, said I’ll be hearing from her solicitor, I have no idea what it could possibly be about.

Been a constant in my girls 2.5 years and now she’s not seen me for what feels like forever; the court order is now being breached already.

Doesn’t look like I have much choice but to take it back to court and pay a barrister thousands to get it enforced, just hope she gets slapped with some sort of penalty to make her think twice about this again!

I am worried that she is a flight risk as she’s clearly prepared to stop at nothing to disrupt this court order. Not putting my daughter first at all, the system does seem to fail you in these circumstances

The breach of order hearing that will follow from the C79 application won't require a barrister or thousands. The order will state what the court has decided and you can show clearly the breach. It's not about to and fro in the court room.

I understand that you would be offered the choice of a penalty to be applied unless it's regarded as a serious breach and the court might make that decision themselves. On another thread on DWK somebody spoke about not asking for a penalty to be applied and as I have yet to have a final hearing I think I'm going to request that the mother ceases in her antics and that the breach is noted but no penalty. When I get to the final hearing it might be useful for my case to demonstrate non-hostility but I'd love to ask for max community service hours.

 

[john6283]

Hi all,

I had taken my ex partner to family courts due to insignificant time when seeing my daughter, days where I've been let down on when I was meant to be seeing her started developing, so that's when I had taken the steps to family courts.

Mother had taken my daughter to the GP and expressed to them her concerns. The GP then referred her to social care. The accusations from mother was clear to me. Last week I received a phone call from social care, they done their investigations etc, then closed their file 24 hours later.

So after my final hearing, I received overnight stays but not to start till July 2024. As above, now that overnight stays are getting closer, mother decided to take those steps as I think she is trying to stop the stays.

I was meant to have midweek tea on Wednesday last week and full day Sunday today, yet mother had told me she is safeguarding my daughter. Cafcass reports said there was no need for any safeguard when at courts.

She never brought her to my house. Deleted the parenting app also, now there's no communication so I can't even ask how our daughter is. She never wanted me to know what nursery she goes to and GP. As this was only a need to know basis, if I ever needed to take her to out of hours emergency.

I do have parental responsibility too.

She has breached the court order 5 times now, so think it's time to take it back to the family courts to get this ironed out once and for all, I feel like I'm being alienated from my daughter's life.

I think reading your story is similar to what I'm going through too.

 

[bujanin]

No matter how often these same behaviours are demonstrated by different people I need to reread in order to try and comprehend what these people are getting up to, treating children like a chattel that they don't want someone else to have.

You've had a final hearing - I'll be interested to see how quickly you get some movement john.

 

[Ash]

Hi all,

I had taken my ex partner to family courts due to insignificant time when seeing my daughter, days where I've been let down on when I was meant to be seeing her started developing, so that's when I had taken the steps to family courts.

Mother had taken my daughter to the GP and expressed to them her concerns. The GP then referred her to social care. The accusations from mother was clear to me. Last week I received a phone call from social care, they done their investigations etc, then closed their file 24 hours later.

So after my final hearing, I received overnight stays but not to start till July 2024. As above, now that overnight stays are getting closer, mother decided to take those steps as I think she is trying to stop the stays.

I was meant to have midweek tea on Wednesday last week and full day Sunday today, yet mother had told me she is safeguarding my daughter. Cafcass reports said there was no need for any safeguard when at courts.

She never brought her to my house. Deleted the parenting app also, now there's no communication so I can't even ask how our daughter is. She never wanted me to know what nursery she goes to and GP. As this was only a need to know basis, if I ever needed to take her to out of hours emergency.

I do have parental responsibility too.

She has breached the court order 5 times now, so think it's time to take it back to the family courts to get this ironed out once and for all, I feel like I'm being alienated from my daughter's life.

I think reading your story is similar to what I'm going through too.

Try and get a closure report from social services - it might be useful evidence. You'll need to enforce the order if she's witholding your child, but it would really help to have something in writing from social services to say case was closed. Sometimes they tell you there isn't anything and then there's not much you can do. You could apply for a subject access report, but that could take some time.

Anyway, as the case was closed you need to enforce the order on a C79 - you'll get a hearing quicker than if you do a C100. If you have to do this more than once then each time a black mark will be against your ex. Hopefully an enforcement will deter her from breaching but if not, you could go back to vary for more time or transfer of residence if she keeps doing these things.

Really you should enforce by the third breach. Be prepared for her wapping in an application to vary on the back of your enforcement application, but if she does, you could ask the court to dismiss it as vexatious.