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This poor dad :-(

That is heartbreaking. It's a shame he wasn't on here at the time or we'd have told him to get a prohibited steps order even from the threat of his ex to go to Rumania, to prevent it ever happening. If he now has an order for the child's return and the sticking point is the Rumanian authorities, then there is something lacking in our own system as the order for return should include a warrant to go and take the child and bring him back. Then it's up to the Mother if she wants to stay there or bring him back. Although I can see that kind of action could be traumatic for the child as well. But it could be done carefully. Take him to a place for some transition and therapy before bringing him back.

That child has already had a major trauma - losing a loved parent suddenly and being whisked away to another country.
 
Hi , i am the dad in the article above

The order was given in September 2022 , Romanian authorities have done nothing to enforce this.

FYI i did have a probibited steps order, but since learnt this does nothing to stop any abduction attempt, its just a piece of paper saying we are telling you that you can't remove a child from the jurisdiction, no mechanism to prevent it from happening.

Still fighting

Craig
 
Hi and welcome. Thank you for posting and really sorry to hear it's your situation. That is quite mind boggling that you had a prohibited steps order - and it was just ignored. I have heard if there's a flight risk they can inform border control but sounds like it isn't foolproof and you're right, they don't routinely inform border control just because there's a PSO.

I take it the Government needs a kick up the backside - they should have some method to be able to send someone to collect your child. There will be a Uk consulate in Romania.
 
I feel angry for you. If a Government minister was kidnapped and held abroad, they'd move mountains to get them back. It's as if they don't see it as a high priority - because the child is with their Mother.

Solidarity with you.
 
Hi thanks for your response,

Yes the government have done nothing, they say its "out of their jurisdiction " the embassy/consulate say enforcement lies with Romanian authorities, but provide no assistance.

The mother FYI has been charged with Parental Child Abduction by UK Police, so is factually a wanted Criminal, yet no UK authority will pursue her as again "out of our jurisdiction "

I have been to the highest court in the land, Royal Courts of Justice in London, i just get orders demanding his return, but told its out of our jurisdiction again.

For clarification, during UK proceedings i was granted Full custody, hence the mothers swift departure.

I currently have a Hague convention order stating his return, yet near 17 months later, zero action taken.

Its increasingly frustrating as i have followed the law to the letter, yet no joy even with legally binding orders at hand.
 
Have you seen this? An extradition treaty between the Uk and Rumania, which lists the crimes for which extradition is allowable - one of which is child stealing. If there is a criminal conviction then the Uk government should be pushing for extradition.

View Treaty - Canada.ca

www.treaty-accord.gc.ca www.treaty-accord.gc.ca

What might complicate it is things like this - the UK courts refused a Rumanian extradition request because they felt the prison sentence Rumania would give the Rumanian prisoner (in prison in the Uk) was excessive.

Rumania will likewise be difficult about extradition if things like this have happened. But - and I don't know how this works, extradition back to the Uk should be possible. I know it sounds like you've tried everything, but is it worth asking your MP to start extradition?

www.doughtystreet.co.uk

Court discharges third Romanian extradition request | Doughty Street Chambers

District Judge Clews has ruled today that extradition be refused in relation to a person sought by Romania. Romania had issued and reissued the extradition warrant three times over a three-year p
www.doughtystreet.co.uk www.doughtystreet.co.uk

Not enough of cases like yours are getting the publicity they should be having so there is more of a groundswell of support and pressure to the Government.
 
Hi , thanks for delving into this i do appreciate it.

I have tried this, however i can't leave much info on this forum other than the UK authorities wont entertain an idea of extradition, for unknown reasons, i have repeatedly asked.

I have also been to my MP and have a letter from a very very senior Minister saying they can not assist, the person is linked in the artice and is very well known.

Our government has very little appetite to help, and i am told they can not assist, and i have repeatedly requested help.

I have nowhere else to turn unfortunately
 
So that means the family court orders and criminal charges aren't worth much if the Government isn't going to intervene to enforce them. I am very sorry. Maybe this kind of thing needs more publicity. It's not like it's Turkey where there's no Hague convention. The failing then is our Government to protect British children who have been abducted.
 
I think it would make me want to get a plane to Rumania, find him and bring him back myself. Did you enquire whether you'd be able to do that legally?
 
Of course! All the warnings, especially in a PSO , and they mean nothing if you flee, as they now fall out of the jurisdiction, its laughable.

Parental child abduction by the way carries a separate sentence of up to 7 years imprisonment, not to mention the numerous court order breaches.

I have inquired and bizarrely enough if i did that i would be arrested by Romanian authorities! For ...Child abduction! Even with an order in my hand.

The system is flawed I could go into so much regarding the Hague convention and how many loopholes there are , sadly ive became a reluctant expert in this field now.

Posted on here in case anyone else may need advice in future
 
That is good of you and yes your experience may help others. I wondered if they'd say it was illegal - which is why you would need back up or support - you would think they could organise someone to go with you to say this order is being enforced to stop you being arrested there.

So it sounds like what needs to happen is the Rumanian courts themselves enforce the Uk order and give you permission to take the child, accompanied by a social worker or something. So that seems to be the sticking point then - getting the Rumanian courts to enforce.

I'm guessing you have tried everything, but have you tried writing to the Rumanian Government and sending the British orders? I'm sure you have.

Or how about a media campaign in Rumania so everyone there knows this child is there illegally and has family back in the Uk. Although I guess that could affect the child as well - possibly.

Incredibly frustrating. I guess you'd only be arrested if you were caught!
 
Have you been in contact with Baroness Meyer from the house of lords? Her children were abducted - she knows about these things. I wonder if she would have any influence.
 
I'm also wondering how the Uk courts dealt with the matter of the change of residency to you as this does seem to happen commonly after a Father is awarded residence. So when a final hearing makes a change of residency order, is there anything in place to ensure the child is protected, from the end of the hearing until they are in your care? I guess even if there was, the Mother would still be spending time with the child and could do a runner.

I thought if you had residency, you would have child's passport - or did the Mother just send for a new one saying it was lost?

I'm just interested to know how they get away with it. Firstly taking the child without proof of residency or consent of both parents. Passport control must have failed to do the proper checks. But I guess they don't check who has residency - otherwise a load of Dads without residency would have problems taking overseas holidays.

It is very frustrating the lack of accountability.

Your son won't forget you. Keep fighting. Is there anything we could do to help I'm wondering.
 
It sounds like Brexit caused some of the issue as well. According to this

"2. The United Kingdom no longer applies the Convention on jurisdiction, applicable law, recognition, enforcement and cooperation in respect of parental responsibility and measures for the protection of children.
In this situation, the United Kingdom will no longer be considered being a Contracting party and therefore any disposition regarding recognition and enforceability mentioned by the Convention will no longer be applicable in case of a court order issued by English courts.

In this scenario, an order regarding rights of custody and access that will be obtained in England will need to be recognised in Romania for it to be enforced.

With regard to the procedure and timescales for obtaining recognition and enforcement of court Order obtained in a third party state in Romania, it involves an application to be filed by the party/parties who have an interest in obtaining the recognition of a foreign decision. For such an application to be lodged and a decision to be obtained, certain conditions must be met such as:

• The foreign decision must be final."


Assume you've already tried that - applying to have the order filed in Rumania for enforcement.
 
Hi thanks for all this i do appreciate it,

You would not believe the lengths she went to, she managed to get false passports from the Romanian embassy, my son under a different name, with the help of her ex husband who signed for them pretending to be the father... yes seriously. So another crime, fraud.

There has never been a change of residence, my sons residence is my address, still is, he is being illegally held with no current registered address is Romania and no court order to say he should stay or be in the care of the mother.

Oh and she had a fake birth certificate as well just to top it off which the Romanian courts accept (hand written in PENCIL)

I have a final definitive decision from the Hague court in Romania, just getting that enforced is near impossible, hence the loophope, give the order but fail to enforce it, thus getting around the system.
 
They certainly were some lengths. So you have the court approval of your order in Romania. Why can't they enforce their own orders - hmm?
 
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