things have just got interesting.

[NewcastleBrownAle]

So, to recap , brief summary - argued over contact - asked for mediation - got arrested for sexual assault , stalking - got dropped - ex filed an NMO (I didn't know about it yet) - then agreed to mediation - mediation - kept cancelling, stalling for time - slapped with NMO court appearance - agreed a cross undertaking - filed for CAO/PRO currently awaiting cafcass call. Phew, now things have got interesting.

The cross undertaken - the ex's solicitor ( or rather a local solicitor acting for them, as they are a distance away) agreed as part of the undertaking to be the "go between" for me to communicate with my ex to arrange to see my son. It was also agreed that we would use parenting app, for out of hours and weekends to communicate for sudden changes to child access arrangements,, wants to go home early,, issues, whatever, that can't wait until business hours.

All very nice.

But I've emailed the solicitors to see my son 5 times over 5 weeks, and not had a response. I also texted on the parenting app ( just once) to inform the ex of this.

Then today, the solicitor emailed me to state that they were only involved with the NMO and nothing else and would not be involved with child arrangement communications ( not covered by legal aid etc etc). I called them and they deny any such undertaking and state they don't have a copy of it anyway and will not comply.

Meanwhile, my case is before the judge as I have asked earlier last week for an urgent directions hearing. I talked with the court official this morning, who said that a copy of the undertaking is not available as the judge is looking at it.

My view: The ex and solicitor are in breach of the cross undertaking , as stated in court - (surely there must be transcript of the proceedings) and the undertaking is in force since I left the court room.

I wonder what will happen next ?

 

[Dirge]

Sounds like dirty tactics from the other side, but more ammunition for you in the urgent directions hearing. Others who have more experience of this will probably confirm, but I believe you can request a transcript of the hearing where these undertakings were agreed.

 

[Resolute]

There is a recording of the proceedings. This can be provided to one of an approved group of companies who can transcribe for you. There is a form and cost, as always.

 

[NewcastleBrownAle]

Sounds like dirty tactics from the other side, but more ammunition for you in the urgent directions hearing. Others who have more experience of this will probably confirm, but I believe you can request a transcript of the hearing where these undertakings were agreed.

I wonder if I have a case to argue that she is in contempt of court, as she has breached her undertaking. Wonder where that would lead

 

[Kyle]

Hearings at the family courts are usually always recorded.

Download and fill in form EX107.

I have a transcription service I can share with you privately. They charged me £183 for a full 1 hour FHDRA transcript as my ex tripped over her own lies and I used it in the second hearing.

 

[NewcastleBrownAle]

First

Hearings at the family courts are usually always recorded.

Download and fill in form EX107.

I have a transcription service I can share with you privately. They charged me £183 for a full 1 hour FHDRA transcript as my ex tripped over her own lies and I used it in the second hearing.

well, I think in my case, I have to wait and hear back from the court ( and also a copy of the cross undertaking). The court clerk said that my case is currently being considered by the judge for an urgent directions hearing, so I would like to think I would hear in next week or so.

 

[Ash]

Yes you need to wait to hear back from the court. And it may well end up needing a directions hearing. Because you weren't represented it would have been your ex's solicitor's job to write up the undertaking - unless the court were going to do it. But really it could have been done on the day and left for sealing. Yes you can get a transcription but it could take about a month minimum. I would still send for it anyway on the form linked above by Kyle. Tick the 48 hour turn around box. It's the court processing the application that takes the time (they're supposed to do it within three weeks but might need chasing after three weeks), once the court have sent it to the transcription company you opted for on the form, they can do it in a couple of days and email it to you straight away. If there was a Judgement (which it doesn't sound like but there might have been if the Judge gave a bit of a speech or decision near the end) then that needs to go back to the court for approval and that can take months. On the form you have the option to tick for the hearing and post hearing discussions without the Judgement - so it's quicker then. If you tick to include the Judgement as well you can get the hearing transcription back at the usual speed but the judgement part will go back to the court for the Judge to approve and that could take many months.

Do you know who was supposed to be writing up the cross undertaking? Best thing right now is if the Judge agrees to a directions hearing and you can get the paperwork sorted on the day and also push for interim time with your child. Have you actually submitted the C100 as well? I can't remember.

 

[NewcastleBrownAle]

Yes you need to wait to hear back from the court. And it may well end up needing a directions hearing. Because you weren't represented it would have been your ex's solicitor's job to write up the undertaking - unless the court were going to do it. But really it could have been done on the day and left for sealing. Yes you can get a transcription but it could take about a month minimum. I would still send for it anyway on the form linked above by Kyle. Tick the 48 hour turn around box. It's the court processing the application that takes the time (they're supposed to do it within three weeks but might need chasing after three weeks), once the court have sent it to the transcription company you opted for on the form, they can do it in a couple of days and email it to you straight away. If there was a Judgement (which it doesn't sound like but there might have been if the Judge gave a bit of a speech or decision near the end) then that needs to go back to the court for approval and that can take months. On the form you have the option to tick for the hearing and post hearing discussions without the Judgement - so it's quicker then. If you tick to include the Judgement as well you can get the hearing transcription back at the usual speed but the judgement part will go back to the court for the Judge to approve and that could take many months.

Do you know who was supposed to be writing up the cross undertaking? Best thing right now is if the Judge agrees to a directions hearing and you can get the paperwork sorted on the day and also push for interim time with your child. Have you actually submitted the C100 as well? I can't remember.

The legal advisor to the judges, was writing the undertaking, she said it would take time as it was unusual , It has now been passed to the judge, who is considering my emails alongside my request for an urgent directions hearing. I think the judge on the day was pretty much on my side, and my regret is not asking for the whole thing to be dismissed outright. Meanwhile, I'm certain that the judge will be concerned that the solicitor has made an undertaking and then .... not undertaken. He was quite smug on the phone, explaining that the undertaking is a matter for the applicant and not the solicitor. The solicitor is distant and they had hired someone local to undertake the hearing. I will keep you all updated.

 

[NewcastleBrownAle]

how to get a cross undertaking ? simple, if you promise not to do things such as harass, threaten etc , then it is fair to ask that the other side make the same promise to the court, you've not admitted anything, so you are in the same legal status as the applicant, in my case, I had a clause added that allowed contact for child access arrangements to be communicated - and it is this that the solicitor volunteered to undertake , so the clause was that I would email the solicitor to request to see my child and the solicitor would communicate back and forth, this was their idea, not mine. Interesting, the solicitor refuses to do this now on the grounds that this is not work they are paid to do under legal aid, but they have made a promise to the court to do so.

 

[Ash]

I wouldn't go thinking about getting them done for breaches at the moment. Solicitors are a law unto themselves! They act solely in their client's best interests and yes there can be dirty tricks. Just keep focused on getting things organised for yourself. You now have an argument for the cross undertaking to be amended to say Mrs Ex will communicate with you over child arrangements - or - an interim order for Child Arrangements possibly.

The solicitors probably sound smug if they know you can't contact the ex and they are saying they don't have to deal with Child Arrangements, knowing this gives their client what she wants - ie no child arrangements.

 

[Ash]

how to get a cross undertaking ? simple, if you promise not to do things such as harass, threaten etc , then it is fair to ask that the other side make the same promise to the court, you've not admitted anything, so you are in the same legal status as the applicant, in my case, I had a clause added that allowed contact for child access arrangements to be communicated - and it is this that the solicitor volunteered to undertake , so the clause was that I would email the solicitor to request to see my child and the solicitor would communicate back and forth, this was their idea, not mine. Interesting, the solicitor refuses to do this now on the grounds that this is not work they are paid to do under legal aid, but they have made a promise to the court to do so.

That depends how it's worded perhaps. Their part in it. Solicitors are tricksy. They may have said that in court but it might not be part of the undertaking. And now they have changed their minds.

What';s the situation with the C100 please?

 

[NewcastleBrownAle]

That depends how it's worded perhaps. Their part in it. Solicitors are tricksy. They may have said that in court but it might not be part of the undertaking. And now they have changed their minds.

What';s the situation with the C100 please?

C100 - I have a cafcas safeguarding call at end of feb, they then have the 2nd gatekeeping hearing ( parties not attending) on 11th march and the FHDRA within 6 weeks after that date. By then I will have the schedule 2 report and based upon it I will decide whether to attend that first hearing on my own, or whether I need to hire the big guns.

 

[NewcastleBrownAle]

if the undertaking does not include the solicitors undertaking, I've still got them. As I did text the applicant to explain that her solicitor was not responding and requesting access, but again no response. Either way, the judge will see this as the other side not acting in my son's best interests and just another example of unreasonable behaviour.

 

[Ash]

What I'm thinking is you maybe need to keep all this under your belt for the Child Arrangements process. I mean obviously you need to get the paperwork for the cross undertaking and check it's correct. But I would keep focused on the Child Arrangements process now and not try and think about getting a breach highlighted re the solicitors - I'm not even sure how you could do that. Yes it will look bad that the Mother didn't offer any time with you. But that happens and there is no punishment - just moving forwards to the next stage. It sounds like the undertaking didn't require the Mother to communicate with you about Child Arrangements - only the solicitor and the solicitors are saying - we don't have to. Dirty tricks indeed.

I hope you either a) get a directions order or b) the Judge issues directions via an order and cancels the whole NMO altogether so no need for a cross undertaking.