Specific Issues Order

[Richie1989]

Hi all,

I have mentioned a bit about this on another thread but just wanted to see if anybody out there can offer some feedback.

CAO all sorted and not an issue anymore.

However, shared holidays are coming up now so there is conversations about FaceTiming/calls while away. My daughter goes away for 16 nights on 18th August and I proposed a scheduled FaceTime every 5 days. So 3 FaceTimes in total. Nothing intrusive but offers consistency and some comfort/security. We have done FaceTimes for the last few holidays even when we were going through CAO and I obviously always encourage them as well. No problem at all for me as it’s great for the little one. Of my daughter ever asked I would never get in the way of it

My ex has basically refused anymore FaceTimes while away saying “it’s not in the court order” ffs!

I am considering submitting a SIO and door all LIP. My final hearing was back in Feb so less than 6 months ago now.

I genuinely don’t think it’s healthy for a 4 years old to go that long without chatting to the other parent. Regardless who it is!

Am I barking up the wrong tree?
Is it to soon? Last thing I want to do is put a S91 (14) on the radar…
Anybody done this or experienced this?
Is it something I just have to swallow regardless of potential impact on the little one.

I have messaged her about it and expressed my concerns in a very very polite and amicable way 2 days but got no answer. So I doubt very much meditation will work either.

Thoughts?

 

[Resolute]

Did you consent to the 16 nights?

A standard holiday arrangement would give maximum 14 consecutive nights to either parent.

Sorry to say this, but I think an application solely on video calls might be seen as petty. Also, going to court invites the possibility of your application being hijacked with an application within proceedings.

Your ex has not given a good account of herself here. Parents are expected to be flexible in service of child welfare. "It is not in the court order" doesn't get her off the hook.

Maybe it would be a good idea to register your concern and advise that extended absence without calls is not acceptable. It is not in the child's best interests and you would like to make a reciprocal arrangement by agreement. E.g. a call to the other parent on Saturday morning of any week they do not see the child and on any special days they will not be with the child.

In time roles will be reversed. See if she wants to make the agreement then. If she is totally unreasonable over an extended period, make an application. While I am not sure about an SIO just for video calls. I could see video calls coming into a broader application to vary. Perhaps as part of trying to get a more prescriptive order and adjusting to school age child.

 

[Richie1989]

Yes that all makes sense…

She goes away out of the country for 12 nights and then there is 3 nights each side. Yes, I consented to it as part of this summer schedule due to commitments they already had. Then next year it’s very simple 2-2-1-1.

I have sent my ex the message with my concerns and for it all to be reprobates and it’s fallen on deaf ears.

Yes, in October my daughter is with me for the whole holidays and also days either side which make it 15 nights. This will be the first time my daughter will have been with me for more than 4 consecutive and out of the country. So maybe then is a good time to try and get her to agree to something again as it will be in her interest as well

There is also the issue of her not letting me apply for dual citizenship for my daughter as well. No reason other than not in the order.

So there is a couple of things she is being resistant/unreasonable for no other reason than control. So maybe I just wait it out for now! Chase up my request in a few days time.

She has no control over anything else now since the order so it’s no surprise these things she is hanging onto the best she can!

 

[Resolute]

Yes that all makes sense…

She goes away out of the country for 12 nights and then there is 3 nights each side. Yes, I consented to it as part of this summer schedule due to commitments they already had. Then next year it’s very simple 2-2-1-1.

I have sent my ex the message with my concerns and for it all to be reprobates and it’s fallen on deaf ears.

Yes, in October my daughter is with me for the whole holidays and also days either side which make it 15 nights. This will be the first time my daughter will have been with me for more than 4 consecutive and out of the country. So maybe then is a good time to try and get her to agree to something again as it will be in her interest as well

There is also the issue of her not letting me apply for dual citizenship for my daughter as well. No reason other than not in the order.

So there is a couple of things she is being resistant/unreasonable for no other reason than control. So maybe I just wait it out for now! Chase up my request in a few days time.

She has no control over anything else now since the order so it’s no surprise these things she is hanging onto the best she can!

She really cannot rely on the order to tell her what any sensible parent would do. I am sure the order does not say feed the child and keep them clean, make sure their shoes fit, call 999 in case of emergency...

One thing to be careful of is not to allow anything you do not like to become customary. If you want to take an objection to court you cannot wait too long. You have to find the sweet spot.

 

[Richie1989]

She really cannot rely on the order to tell her what any sensible parent would do. I am sure the order does not say feed the child and keep them clean, make sure their shoes fit, call 999 in case of emergency...

One thing to be careful of is not to allow anything you do not like to become customary. If you want to take an objection to court you cannot wait too long. You have to find the sweet spot.

Sadly this is the woman I am dealing with! Awkward for awkward sake… bitter and twisted!!

The only two things she has any control over is the communication while away and the dual citizenship. Other than that everything else is very well covered in the order. It’s a couple of minor details that was overlooked at the time.

Shall I shelf these 2 things for now and see if anything else pops up which I really can’t think off but who knows. Or address these 2 things now in the same application as they are both linked to foreign travel.

So basically my concern with dual citizenship is if something happens to me before I register her and apply for dual citizenship then the inherited land in the other country wound become very tricky at probate etc as my daughter is third generation and it all gets a bit messy with the application process then. So my ex is preventing something that is about her future and something important to our family heritage.

The FaceTime/communication is more obvious and like you say quite tedious in the grand scheme of things.

Combine the 2 and maybe I’m not just wasting everybody’s time?

 

[Ash]

This sounds typical. My ex insisted on phone contact during my holiday periods (by telling my son he had to do it or else) so I accepted it. When it came to hers I'd get nothing. At a later final hearing I wanted phone contact in the order but her solicitor managed to scrap it - so nothing was ordered for me.

Unfortunately some ex's will follow the order to the letter and not give an inch (but expect you to). So in future - do the same! At least then it works. But you can bet your daughter will say Mummy expects me to phone her. And she'd be worried about not doing it. Some battles you just can't win. But you can keep the phone contact to a minimum so she can say - Daddy said it was enough - so she doesn't get into trouble.

You can't apply for a specific issues order for phone contact (I think). It would probably need an application to vary - because it's a variation to the order - and you don't want to go through all that again so soon. Plus as Resolute says, the court might find it a bit petty over just phone calls.

I believe also there is a view that children don't need phone contact when away from a parent and they are better focusing on the one parent and their holiday. But as Resolute says again, it's usually a maxium of 14 days away from the other parent.

The dual nationality you could do a specific issues order for but I'd give it a bit more time.

 

[Richie1989]

This sounds typical. My ex insisted on phone contact during my holiday periods (by telling my son he had to do it or else) so I accepted it. When it came to hers I'd get nothing. At a later final hearing I wanted phone contact in the order but her solicitor managed to scrap it - so nothing was ordered for me.

Unfortunately some ex's will follow the order to the letter and not give an inch (but expect you to). So in future - do the same! At least then it works. But you can bet your daughter will say Mummy expects me to phone her. And she'd be worried about not doing it. Some battles you just can't win. But you can keep the phone contact to a minimum so she can say - Daddy said it was enough - so she doesn't get into trouble.

You can't apply for a specific issues order for phone contact (I think). It would probably need an application to vary - because it's a variation to the order - and you don't want to go through all that again so soon. Plus as Resolute says, the court might find it a bit petty over just phone calls.

I believe also there is a view that children don't need phone contact when away from a parent and they are better focusing on the one parent and their holiday. But as Resolute says again, it's usually a maxium of 14 days away from the other parent.

The dual nationality you could do a specific issues order for but I'd give it a bit more time.

Yes that all makes sense to me Ash!

I will first see how it unfolds and go from there. I am expecting no response to my message and I expect no contact whatsoever for the full 16 days. It is a one off and after this it never goes over 14 days every again.

The annoying thing is she allowed communication/FaceTime beforehand it’s just out of the blue. Typical like you say!

So basically if I feel I I need to do something about it, it’s an “application to vary”. I will start putting the costings together and get used to the process. Like I say, see how it unfolds first and see what’s best to do.

Yes, my thoughts was to wait a couple of years until getting the SIO in for the passport nonsense but wasn’t sure if it could all go on same application with it all being relevant to foreign travel.

 

[Peanut 21]

The annoying thing is, even if the phone business was written into the order she probably still wouldn't follow it.
She would just say 'there was a bad signal at the hotel' or some other lame excuse.

 

[Richie1989]

The annoying thing is, even if the phone business was written into the order she probably still wouldn't follow it.
She would just say 'there was a bad signal at the hotel' or some other lame excuse.

That is very very true! Suppose the only benefit I would get from it is I can say it’s in the order and her not accuse me of emotional abuse and manipulation!