Solicitors fees

[Hobnob]

Morning all.

Quick question regarding solicitors fees. When my ex filed for divorce she made me agree to pay the fixed fee divorce which was £799 plus the court fee of £550. I also agreed to pay the costs for the financial consent order £900 plus £50 court fee. I agreed as at the time she had already made threats about cutting me off from the kids (which she is now doing anyway).

For background info, I agreed to all of her demands. She kept the house, all the contents, her car, any savings she had. Any debts in my name were to remain with me. I agreed to fulfil joint loans until settled in full and paid my half of the mortgage until the decree absolute came, this took about 13 months. We agreed that we had no interest on each others pensions.
She emptied and closed the joint bank account when we split; I had no idea what the balance was as she controlled all the finances. She also resigned as director of my company and emptied the business account, paying me no dividend, this was all on the same day and I was informed by her after she'd done it. To get me off the mortgage I also agreed her demand that I pay half of the early release fee from the mortgage in installments. So in addition to her child maintenance (informal agreement), I pay her every month for a joint loan and the mortgage release fee. She also told me I had to pay her for the kids savings accounts, but I recently stopped this as I can save for them myself if I wish to.

Anyway, as there was no contest around the finances and I'd agreed all of this in writing to her solicitors, the legal fees should have been no more that £2.5k. That allows for the cost of a few emails back and forth to them on top of the fixed fees and court fees. Stupidly I was paying her solicitor monthly and to be honest wasn't keeping up to date with what I was paying. Occasionally she'd send me an extra invoice from the solicitor and I'd immediately pay it without question.

Divorce was finalized May 2021, however in September last year and I get an email from my ex saying there was still just over £500 solicitors fees remaining. I thought this odd so started going back through all the payments and found I'd already paid them nearly £5k.
I'd emailed the solictors myself after the decree absolute and asked if the bill was settled and they told me that the only thing outstanding was £50 for the court fee for the financial consent order. I asked for an invoice and they never sent me one.

I asked my ex for an itemised breakdown of the solicitors fees so I could cross-reference against all

 

[Hobnob]

Cont...

...of the payments I'd made. This was never forthcoming. I asked the solictors too but they said as I wasn't the client they couldn't provide it to me, only to her. I've asked and asked her for this and she just ignores.

After 3 months of emails back and forth between me, the ex and the solictors, eventually the solictors say there is an outstanding invoice of £500 and it relates to the initial court fee. As the court fee is paid right at the beginning, this seems strange. At that time I was due to visit my children for only the second time in over 15 months and I feared that if I didn't agree to pay it she would stop the visit (with indirect obstruction). So I reluctantly agreed to pay the £500 in monthly installments of £100 every month starting in January this year. The visit never happened anyway due to covid restrictions.

In February of this year I obtained a copy of the financial consent order from the court. It clearly states that I am NOT liable for any legal fees including those pertaining to the divorce. I suspect that the reason the solicitors bill is more than double what it should have been is twofold...

1), she has deliberately contacted the solicitor excessively with pointless and unnecessary calls and emails to ask stupid questions or for advice when I was already agreeing to everything she demanded and therefore communication could have been kept to a minimum. (She accidently forwarded one such email to me where she was asking the solicitor how she could find out if I had secret money stashed away).
2), I suspect she has also used the solictors to change her will (stating if she dies the kids go to her parents and not me - she wrote about this on social media) and to do her conveyance for the mortgage and she simply added these costs to the divorce bill without asking me.

I have only made one payment of £100 to the solicitor of this outstanding amount and now they are chasing me for the rest. I am not their client, my ex is, and I never signed any paperwork with them. Can I refuse to pay this £400 remaining? It's not the money it's the principle. After years of financial abuse where I wasn't even allowed a bank account and she fleeced all my earnings over a prolonged period in the relationship, I am loathe to pay this bill without a full breakdown of the fees, which she and they will not give to me.

Any advice?

 

[Ash]

Sounds horrific. Incidentally she can’t will the children to her parents! If anything happened to her you would automatically have sole parental responsibility and be the sole parent with care and if her parents wanted “residency” they’d have to apply to court for it. They would probably get an order to spend time with the children but a bit pointless as you’d probably allow that anyway. But you are the one with parental rights. Don’t tell her that though or she may panic and do something else disruptive. It’s almost laughable how these exes try to keep you out even if they die! Mine made her ex bf a guardian stating child was to live with him of she died. They think they are God! It has no legal precedent whatsoever. However it does explain why she’s keeping the kids from you partly. So her parents would have an argument that the kids hadn’t seen you for years. But you would still be the surviving parent with responsibility for the kids.

Sorry you’ve been fleeced. I am not up on divorce financials but it seems bizarre that anyone would expect you to pay her solicitors fees. And then say they can only deal with her.

If you wanted to pursue financial abuse you could contact the Mankind Initiative. They support abused men and have a lot of resources. And there is probably a route for an order to compel her solicitors to provide you with a breakdown.

But if you can afford to it is probably better to draw a line under it and focus on getting to see your kids. And that may have been partly why your ex fleeced you - to make sure you couldn’t afford lawyers yourself for a child arrangements order.

Sounds bad if you’ve hardly seen them. The route to that is start mediation. If she won’t go you get signed off and can apply to family court for an order to see the children. The standard is every other week end, one midweek night and half the school holidays.

If Mankind do find it’s financial abuse they may be able to help you get legal aid for the family court application. Only one parent can have it and it’s only available if there has been abuse. They assume it’s for women who have had dv but there are(rarely) some Dads who get it. It pays for a solicitor and barrister.

 

[Hobnob]

Sounds horrific. Incidentally she can’t will the children to her parents! If anything happened to her you would automatically have sole parental responsibility and be the sole parent with care and if her parents wanted “residency” they’d have to apply to court for it. They would probably get an order to spend time with the children but a bit pointless as you’d probably allow that anyway. But you are the one with parental rights. Don’t tell her that though or she may panic and do something else disruptive. It’s almost laughable how these exes try to keep you out even if they die! Mine made her ex bf a guardian stating child was to live with him of she died. They think they are God! It has no legal precedent whatsoever. However it does explain why she’s keeping the kids from you partly. So her parents would have an argument that the kids hadn’t seen you for years. But you would still be the surviving parent with responsibility for the kids.

Sorry you’ve been fleeced. I am not up on divorce financials but it seems bizarre that anyone would expect you to pay her solicitors fees. And then say they can only deal with her.

If you wanted to pursue financial abuse you could contact the Mankind Initiative. They support abused men and have a lot of resources. And there is probably a route for an order to compel her solicitors to provide you with a breakdown.

But if you can afford to it is probably better to draw a line under it and focus on getting to see your kids. And that may have been partly why your ex fleeced you - to make sure you couldn’t afford lawyers yourself for a child arrangements order.

Sounds bad if you’ve hardly seen them. The route to that is start mediation. If she won’t go you get signed off and can apply to family court for an order to see the children. The standard is every other week end, one midweek night and half the school holidays.

If Mankind do find it’s financial abuse they may be able to help you get legal aid for the family court application. Only one parent can have it and it’s only available if there has been abuse. They assume it’s for women who have had dv but there are(rarely) some Dads who get it. It pays for a solicitor and barrister.

Hi Ash, I'm awaiting first hearing for child arrangements order, you've been helping me on another thread "advice for a complex case", obviously don't expect you to remember my case!
I will contact Mankind, not sure if they can help as I'm outside the UK but won't hurt to speak to them.
Thanks for putting my mind at ease about the will, I never would have allowed that anyway! I would have fought tooth and nail in that scenario.

With the financials, I've realised that it doesn't matter how much I hand over she will still continue to alienate the kids and try to eradicate me completely from their lives. I don't think paying this bill will make a blind bit of difference to her agenda.
I do wonder if trying to get the kids willed to her grandparents is seen as a red flag by the court when she pretends to have no issues with me having contact with my children. Would they see that as being contrary to her claims?

 

[Ash]

Sorry - yes of course - I've had a funny week-end . Just putting two and two together now with your Child Arrangements situation. If you have clear evidence that she has "willed" the kids to her parents then yes it could be good evidence - but unless she has put that in writing to you I'm not sure you could prove it. Yes it will indicate her attitude towards not supporting a relationship with a Father. But it may also just suggest hostility by her towards you (not always the same thing) - they can see hostility after separation as one thing but not necessarily related to PA - which is annoying when attempted PA is going on.

 

[Hobnob]

No unfortunately I don't have this in writing. I really don't want to start relying on vague things written on social media as it could look bad on me.
Shame though as I'm certain she will have done and it would be a good piece of evidence.

 

[Ash]

You can screenshot something from social media, if it's clear. But I think the most important marker is she's stopping you seeing the kids now.

 

[StayStrong]

Hobnob, further to Ash's initial response, and because I'm at work currently, this is only a brief pointer for you:

The Solicitor's Regulation Authority (SRA) complaints procedure should be used from what you've written. Have a look and then ask any Q's here, I'll be back when I have more time.

Re Mankind Initiative.....fabulous organisation that were crucial to me. I faced the wall and almost pulled the trigger myself until they opened my eyes to the abuse (very varied) that I had been conditioned to accept.

Re legal aid availability.....actually, I am wary since fees paid tend to be for monkeys and not organ grinders, unfortunately.

SS.

 

[Ash]

No unfortunately I don't have this in writing. I really don't want to start relying on vague things written on social media as it could look bad on me.
Shame though as I'm certain she will have done and it would be a good piece of evidence.

Just meant to add also, keep diary notes about all these things - so if there's been a conversation about her putting this in her will re the parents, then write a diary note. Keep all this stuff together in a file until you need it then you can sort through it and pick and choose bits of evidence. A diary note in itself could be seen as a piece of evidence. Now obviouslt it's not as authentic as an email or letter, but if it's date and time stamped (as an email to yourself is) it looks more authentic than something written on a word document (which could have been written yesterday).

And even if there's no evidence, mentioning things like that throughout a process can add to a view as to Mum not accepting your PR (whether that is beneficial or not at the time is another matter - if you have much stronger evidence then best to focus on that maybe =- because at the moment its' about the emotional welfare of the kids).

 

[Ash]

Hobnob, further to Ash's initial response, and because I'm at work currently, this is only a brief pointer for you:

The Solicitor's Regulation Authority (SRA) complaints procedure should be used from what you've written. Have a look and then ask any Q's here, I'll be back when I have more time.

Re Mankind Initiative.....fabulous organisation that were crucial to me. I faced the wall and almost pulled the trigger myself until they opened my eyes to the abuse (very varied) that I had been conditioned to accept.

Re legal aid availability.....actually, I am wary since fees paid tend to be for monkeys and not organ grinders, unfortunately.

SS.

I didn't realise the ones appointed were monkeys . Does that mean whoever gets legal aid has to take who they are allocated or can they approach a solicitor etc first and say they are eligible and get the one they want? Assume no option to "pay for an upgrade" if it's legal aid funding. I'm just asking because I know one guy's ex had a real top barrister for a hearing who worked free for cases of so called sexual abuse - not sure if that was legal aid funded or not - but his ex had, out of the blue, accused sexual abuse of child (straight after a final hearing where she had lost so it was very clearly false).

Even if they are not the best it does at least prevent the other side from having free representation because an ex with a solicitor can cause a lot of problems for an LIP without support. Although knowing the ropes and asking on here can help.

Maybe worth having as you can still "instruct" a solicitor presumably what you would like them to do? I have no experience of this though. Your experiences are invaluable Stay Strong.

 

[StayStrong]

I didn't realise the ones appointed were monkeys . Does that mean whoever gets legal aid has to take who they are allocated or can they approach a solicitor etc first and say they are eligible and get the one they want? Assume no option to "pay for an upgrade" if it's legal aid funding. I'm just asking because I know one guy's ex had a real top barrister for a hearing who worked free for cases of so called sexual abuse - not sure if that was legal aid funded or not - but his ex had, out of the blue, accused sexual abuse of child (straight after a final hearing where she had lost so it was very clearly false).

Even if they are not the best it does at least prevent the other side from having free representation because an ex with a solicitor can cause a lot of problems for an LIP without support. Although knowing the ropes and asking on here can help.

Maybe worth having as you can still "instruct" a solicitor presumably what you would like them to do? I have no experience of this though. Your experiences are invaluable Stay Strong.

Ash, The Law Society makes it clear that a firm does not have to accept instruction backed by legal aid if it is uneconomic for that firm to do so.

Those cases, such that you refer to above, where a 'top barrister' is appointed, doesn't take into account that fees may only be partially covered from legal aid and supplemented privately, either by ones own means or through support of family etc etc.

HTH?

Legal aid may help but it's more often on a train controlled by monkeys and not as a passenger in the organ grinder's porsche.

SS.

 

[Ash]

Thanks for explaining that Stay Strong. I am not up on how legal aid solicitors work and can imagine they are not the best. But at least it stops an ex from getting the legal aid. ie she has less incentive to make false allegations if no legal aid available! Because Dad has it. That was my thinking - but completely take the point.