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Smacking children
- Thread starter John
- Start date
Citizens Advice says; As a parent, you don't have the legal right to smack your child unless it is 'reasonable punishment.' If the violence you use is severe enough to leave a mark, for example a scratch or a bruise, you can be prosecuted for assault or the child can be taken into local authority care.
How do you define violence? The Oxford dictionary says; 'its behaviour involving physical force intended to hurt, damage, or kill someone or something.'
Why would anyone want to use violence against any child, let alone their own?
Teaching boundaries and right from wrong can be achieved without inflicting physical pain on a child.
How do you define violence? The Oxford dictionary says; 'its behaviour involving physical force intended to hurt, damage, or kill someone or something.'
Why would anyone want to use violence against any child, let alone their own?
Teaching boundaries and right from wrong can be achieved without inflicting physical pain on a child.
Most of the legal information is in the link below. Many people want to make it illegal to smack a child (because a smack to one person is not the same as a smack to another person and could be over the top).
I don't think there is ever a reason to smack. There are other parenting techniques that can be used. Eg the naughty step, time out to think in their room - that kind of thing. When my son was a nightmare at about 4, I did give him a light smack once (and didn't feel good about it) - and straight away realised not only did I not feel right about it, but it didn't work. He just laughed at me. His Mother was a smacker - he was immune to it and I sensed a loss of respect. The idea behind smacking is to instil fear and deterrance - not a great way to parent. Time out worked very well. And then you can have a sensible discussion afterwards - that works.
The biggest danger to smacking is, often parents do it in anger rather than as some kind of thought out "punishment". I did a lot of thinking about this and the behaviour issues were solved with a reward chart. Not saying you reward bad behaviour - you don't - but you reward good behaviour and achievements. It's quite amazing how keen they are to get rewards and praise for achieving something. Bad behaviour is often just boredom or frustration.
When you say "what constitutes a reasonable punishment" - do you mean what reasons warrant a child being smacked? I can't think of any. But for example if a child was inappropriately punished regularly that is controlling the child. Alienators do things like that.
As a Separated Dad you are also always at risk of being accused of doing something inappropriate and reported.
Apparently smacking was banned in Scotland in 2020 and in Wales in 2022. About time it was banned in England.
childlawadvice.org.uk
I don't think there is ever a reason to smack. There are other parenting techniques that can be used. Eg the naughty step, time out to think in their room - that kind of thing. When my son was a nightmare at about 4, I did give him a light smack once (and didn't feel good about it) - and straight away realised not only did I not feel right about it, but it didn't work. He just laughed at me. His Mother was a smacker - he was immune to it and I sensed a loss of respect. The idea behind smacking is to instil fear and deterrance - not a great way to parent. Time out worked very well. And then you can have a sensible discussion afterwards - that works.
The biggest danger to smacking is, often parents do it in anger rather than as some kind of thought out "punishment". I did a lot of thinking about this and the behaviour issues were solved with a reward chart. Not saying you reward bad behaviour - you don't - but you reward good behaviour and achievements. It's quite amazing how keen they are to get rewards and praise for achieving something. Bad behaviour is often just boredom or frustration.
When you say "what constitutes a reasonable punishment" - do you mean what reasons warrant a child being smacked? I can't think of any. But for example if a child was inappropriately punished regularly that is controlling the child. Alienators do things like that.
As a Separated Dad you are also always at risk of being accused of doing something inappropriate and reported.
Apparently smacking was banned in Scotland in 2020 and in Wales in 2022. About time it was banned in England.
The law on smacking children - childlawadvice.org.uk
This page explains the law on smacking and physically disciplining children. It explains when this would amount to an offence and the possible defences to this.
childlawadvice.org.uk
To answer the bit about what is considered "reasonable punishment" - some more information below. I think it's left too open - where do you draw the line between a smack and an angry parent spanking too hard and causing severe pain - but then that is likely to leave a mark so then not reasonable.
"A smack might be considered to be reasonable chastisement if it is open-handed (not administered with a fist or any kind of implement) administered on a part of the body where it will not cause harm not severe enough to leave a mark.
Depending on the circumstances, an open-handed smack on a child's bottom, if it does not leave a mark, might therefore be considered "reasonable chastisement", whereas a smack on the head - even open-handed - might be considered assault, as it could cause harm."
www.hants.gov.uk
"A smack might be considered to be reasonable chastisement if it is open-handed (not administered with a fist or any kind of implement) administered on a part of the body where it will not cause harm not severe enough to leave a mark.
Depending on the circumstances, an open-handed smack on a child's bottom, if it does not leave a mark, might therefore be considered "reasonable chastisement", whereas a smack on the head - even open-handed - might be considered assault, as it could cause harm."
Chastisement and punishment
www.hants.gov.uk
I was smacked a plenty as a child. I was a little s***. A very naughty boy. I remember as clear as day. It didn’t have any effect on my behaviour at all and my parents realised (as did I) that taking away favourite toys and other things I enjoyed hit me harder and reigned me in.
I don’t dislike my parents one bit for smacking me as a naughty child. And I haven't turned into a psychopath as a result. I was born in the 70's and it was a different time. If you misbehaved that much you got your dads big hand across the backside. I know exactly what I was like. And I grew up to realise that my parents are absolutely amazing people who worked their backsides off to provide for me and taught me valuable lessons about life. I received a ton of love as well as the odd smack.
But when I became a father. I knew from my own experience as a Dennis the Menace, that smacking is not only Neanderthal in its origins. It’s ineffective.
Psychology works much better. You do good, you get good things. You do bad, you get the things you enjoy taken away from you.
You very quickly start to put two and two together.
A patient, rational parent uses their teaching skills to drum good behaviour into their child.
I don’t dislike my parents one bit for smacking me as a naughty child. And I haven't turned into a psychopath as a result. I was born in the 70's and it was a different time. If you misbehaved that much you got your dads big hand across the backside. I know exactly what I was like. And I grew up to realise that my parents are absolutely amazing people who worked their backsides off to provide for me and taught me valuable lessons about life. I received a ton of love as well as the odd smack.
But when I became a father. I knew from my own experience as a Dennis the Menace, that smacking is not only Neanderthal in its origins. It’s ineffective.
Psychology works much better. You do good, you get good things. You do bad, you get the things you enjoy taken away from you.
You very quickly start to put two and two together.
A patient, rational parent uses their teaching skills to drum good behaviour into their child.
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I think once you can reason with a child, any form of physical chastisement becomes totally unnecessary. As a stay at home dad to an infant and crawler, it was necessary to have some means of shocking the little one if they were about to put themselves in danger. A little tap or grab was effective as a way of stopping a fall off the sofa or similar, this is different to punishment as it is not directed towards causing pain. Pretty quickly, I realised that a sharp intake of breath had the same impact, made the baby stock still and focussed on me.
Physical intervention is necessary with kids, even just picking them up to drag them kicking and screaming when they have to go, could be interpreted the wrong way.
The should we, shouldn't we, smack them question is hard. Probably we shouldn't, and if we feel we need to smack, there are likely other things about our parenting that need improvement. In a healthy family where parents are working together, a one off transgression shouldn't be the end of the world. I was beaten as a kid, very rarely, it isn't such a terrible thing. Seems a little idealistic to imagine that all forms of physical violence can be banished from human interactions, it is a part of our makeup.
In a separated parent situation, this is a pragmatic rather then theoretical/moral question, anything bordering on physical correction should be avoided at all costs!
Physical intervention is necessary with kids, even just picking them up to drag them kicking and screaming when they have to go, could be interpreted the wrong way.
The should we, shouldn't we, smack them question is hard. Probably we shouldn't, and if we feel we need to smack, there are likely other things about our parenting that need improvement. In a healthy family where parents are working together, a one off transgression shouldn't be the end of the world. I was beaten as a kid, very rarely, it isn't such a terrible thing. Seems a little idealistic to imagine that all forms of physical violence can be banished from human interactions, it is a part of our makeup.
In a separated parent situation, this is a pragmatic rather then theoretical/moral question, anything bordering on physical correction should be avoided at all costs!
I think it's because of the cases where children are killed. The argument is - if all physical punishment like smacking is made illegal, then the really abusive parents can't get away with hitting too hard because they know they can say it was reasonable chastisement. They'd be more worried someone might see and report the slightest physical thing. It wouldn't stop it but it could reduce it. Shouting and screaming at a child is worse than a slight smack for being naughty IMO. But it's where do you draw the line. It's too vague and not specified clearly. Just because something doesn't leave a mark doesn't mean it doesn't cause harm - shaking, a hit to the head, that kind of thing. Verbal threats and nasty words are just as bad. Sadly there are bullies out there who hurt their kids.
I hear you about the odd thing in an emergency with a toddler. I used to find "no" and "be careful" in an urgent tone tended to work. Lol - I was used to training dogs and the same thing kind of worked. The idea of smacking is as a premeditated thing the child knows will happen if they disobey. A deterrant. The smack itself isn't a deterrant. It just causes pain and resentment. Children don't always associate what they've done with being smacked.
I had some spankings too in my childhood. No it didn't do me any harm but I did feel resentful that sometimes it was unjust and I wasn't listened to. And sometimes I have no idea what I had done wrong. But yeah I got into trouble a fair bit at home and was defiant and lazy lol. It was normal then - the whole "spare the rod, spoil the child" thing. It's not normal now. And there are other ways. I think my son was much more upset, distressed even, at being told to go to his room and think about things for 10 minutes. And I ended up having to carry him there and shut the door as he refused. I felt like shit. But it worked. He needed time to calm down. Then he came down and we talked about it. And I explained why I needed to do that, and asked him why he was acting like that and he said he didn't know. So it was left, if he felt like that again he would go to his room and punch a pillow to get his frustration out (instead of kicking people lol). He thought that was great! Loved the idea and started punching all the cushions and laughing a lot lol.
I hear you about the odd thing in an emergency with a toddler. I used to find "no" and "be careful" in an urgent tone tended to work. Lol - I was used to training dogs and the same thing kind of worked. The idea of smacking is as a premeditated thing the child knows will happen if they disobey. A deterrant. The smack itself isn't a deterrant. It just causes pain and resentment. Children don't always associate what they've done with being smacked.
I had some spankings too in my childhood. No it didn't do me any harm but I did feel resentful that sometimes it was unjust and I wasn't listened to. And sometimes I have no idea what I had done wrong. But yeah I got into trouble a fair bit at home and was defiant and lazy lol. It was normal then - the whole "spare the rod, spoil the child" thing. It's not normal now. And there are other ways. I think my son was much more upset, distressed even, at being told to go to his room and think about things for 10 minutes. And I ended up having to carry him there and shut the door as he refused. I felt like shit. But it worked. He needed time to calm down. Then he came down and we talked about it. And I explained why I needed to do that, and asked him why he was acting like that and he said he didn't know. So it was left, if he felt like that again he would go to his room and punch a pillow to get his frustration out (instead of kicking people lol). He thought that was great! Loved the idea and started punching all the cushions and laughing a lot lol.