Seeking Urgent Advice on Non Molestation Order Hearing

[mikeayo1891]

Hi guys,

Got my first hearing on my NMO early tomorrow. It will be virtual Hearing on Teams. As advised on this forum I plan to request to take an undertaking or cross-undertaking if it is possible. Can someone please explain what actually happens at the NMO proceedings? Do i just ask for an undertaking immediately or would I be asked to first defend myself?
My plan is to send in a defence to the court later today with some evidence to show that ex has fabricated evidence (fake text threatening messages from an anonymous number to herself purporting to come from me) and then ask for an undertaking at the hearing tomorrow or to not mount a defence at all and simply ask for an undertaking. Does it have to be one or the other or its okay to mount a defence and still want case discharged with undertaking?

This is urgent and will be very glad if someone with experience can kindly advise quickly before I send in my defence. @Ash @mva @Resolute

 

[mva]

I think tomorrow you will be asked if you contest the non-mol - if yes then you will get another hearing with your evidence submitted

Or you can ask for an undertaking with no admittance of guilt

Depends what the judge allows

Don’t think you can just send of evidence to the court beforehand needs to be court ordered and quantified.

I really would phone a solicitor now and try and get 30mins free advice as sometimes courts won’t allow undertakings.

 

[mikeayo1891]

I think tomorrow you will be asked if you contest the non-mol - if yes then you will get another hearing with your evidence submitted

Or you can ask for an undertaking with no admittance of guilt

Depends what the judge allows

Don’t think you can just send of evidence to the court beforehand needs to be court ordered and quantified.

I really would phone a solicitor now and try and get 30mins free advice as sometimes courts won’t allow undertakings.

Thanks @mva . So if I'm hoping to ask for an undertaking with no admittance of guilt do you think it would be hurt my chances of getting an undertaking if i also sent in a position statement denying the allegations?

 

[mva]

I can’t see it hurting . But I would await other advice on this forum or legal advise. A non mol can damage child arrangement orders and you need to know where you stand.

 

[mikeayo1891]

Thanks i'll wait for others to respond on the forum. I just feel if ex seeing my position statement where I dismantle her evidence and also threaten to pursue criminal proceedings against her for providing fake text messages as evidence to the court may spook her into agreeing a cross undertaking more easily. But i'll wait and see what people think. Just want the best route to getting an undertaking.

 

[JC83]

Hi buddy,

Has you ex said you used or threatened violence against her?

In my case ex has said I physically harmed her and my child. I turned up to my non mol hearing with a barrister wanting a cross undertaking or an undertaking. I had quite a lot of evidence to disprove her nonsense but my barrister said of ex doesn’t agree an undertaking (which she outright refused) she will get a non mol granted anyway due to a practice direction stating for courts to not issue undertakings where there has been threats of violence, or violence used:

https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content...tice-Guidance-Non-Molestation-Injunctions.pdf

I got a non mol with a reduced time from 12 to 6 months. It was granted ex parte and this was the return hearing. My barrister spoke to the ex beforehand and she just wouldn’t budge. I think the social worker and her IDVA would have advised her to stand firm and not accept one as they knew how it would play out. She turned up as a LIP and I felt like a right fool I wasn’t able to negotiate an undertaking even with a barrister.

This will probably mean my CAO case goes to a fact finding. A total joke really.

I hope you can negotiate an undertaking buddy

 

[mikeayo1891]

Hi buddy,

Has you ex said you used or threatened violence against her?

In my case ex has said I physically harmed her and my child. I turned up to my non mol hearing with a barrister wanting a cross undertaking or an undertaking. I had quite a lot of evidence to disprove her nonsense but my barrister said of ex doesn’t agree an undertaking (which she outright refused) she will get a non mol granted anyway due to a practice direction stating for courts to not issue undertakings where there has been threats of violence, or violence used:

https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content...tice-Guidance-Non-Molestation-Injunctions.pdf

I got a non mol with a reduced time from 12 to 6 months. It was granted ex parte and this was the return hearing. My barrister spoke to the ex beforehand and she just wouldn’t budge. I think the social worker and her IDVA would have advised her to stand firm and not accept one as they knew how it would play out. She turned up as a LIP and I felt like a right fool I wasn’t able to negotiate an undertaking even with a barrister.

This will probably mean my CAO case goes to a fact finding. A total joke really.

I hope you can negotiate an undertaking buddy

Cheers mate. My ex also said that i threatened violence. She faked an anonymous text messages and purported that it came from me. Thanks for the practice direction. Thing is that the PD was issued in July 2023 (so more than a year ago) but I have read here that some people have managed to get undertakings since then. So not sure if some judges are ignoring the PD or are unaware of it. Mine is not ex-parte so maybe i got a better chance. lol

So in your case, why did you accept the non-mol? Why didnt you just contest it (with your evidence) anyway if they werent accepting an undertaking?

 

[JC83]

my barrister basically said the Judge would not grant me an undertaking due to the practice direction in his experience. As I accepted it on the basis of no findings and no admissions he was able to convince the ex to have the term reduced from 12 to 6 months.

Had I had contested it the hearing would be listed for months down the line and delay my child arrangements case. There is the slim chance my CAO case my avoid an expensive fact find and by accepting the NMO with no findings or admissions gives me the chance to still avoid one.

in the first hearing you can’t submit evidence.

 

[mikeayo1891]

Cheers mate. I'm just thinking of submitting evidence to exes solicitor anyway. Maybe that would spook them to consider an undertaking, I am threatening to pursue the fake text messages criminally.

Will an NMO even with a no findings or admissions not show up on ones's records (maybe enhanced DBA) and also for cafcass to see even if its spent?

 

[JC83]

Cheers mate. I'm just thinking of submitting evidence to exes solicitor anyway. Maybe that would spook them to consider an undertaking, I am threatening to pursue the fake text messages criminally.

Will an NMO even with a no findings or admissions not show up on ones's records (maybe enhanced DBA) and also for cafcass to see even if it’s spent?

No worries. Best of luck with your strategy.

Pass. Sorry, I’ll leave that to someone else to advise.

 

[mikeayo1891]

Just thought I'd update the forum that I managed to get an undertaking on my NMO today without using a solicitor or barrister (cos i couldn't afford one.. lol). It was tough cos the ex solicitor was very aggressive and would not even accept an undertaking. They wanted non-mol and went for the jugular. But using my strong position statement (with exhibits of evidence) which had lots of logical arguments I was able let the Judge have a rethink that the exes statements were not to be taken at face value. It gave me a foothold. I sent in my position statement with the exhibits last night and the judge managed to read it before the hearing. I defended myself robustly with lots of logical arguments (but also with empathy showing that I have nothing against the ex) but also made it clear that I was very happy to make an undertaken in the interest of the ex if this would give her some form of security and peace of mind as I want her to be happy.

To be fair the judge was a very respectful and reasonable guy. He was very sensible and even adjourned the hearing for about 30mins (was a virtual hearing) to allow me and the exe solicitor to talk privately and reach an agreement. I believe that the ex solicitor seeing the strength of my argument and evidence was forced into reconsidering taking an undertaken. The finally managed to convince the ex. I had threatened criminal proceedings on their forged text messages that they attributed to me.

So guys don't give up. It's still doable!!

 

[JC83]

Great result @mikeayo1891 pleased for you buddy. I should have taken you instead of an expensive barrister! lol

 

[mikeayo1891]

Great result @mikeayo1891 pleased for you buddy. I should have taken you instead of an expensive barrister! lol

I have plans of studying to become a lawyer and barrister myself and I'm very interested in family law so maybe in time I would be able to offer my services to members of this forum at a discount as an alumnus

 

[JC83]

I have plans of studying to become a lawyer and barrister myself and I'm very interested in family law so maybe in time I would be able to offer my services to members of this forum at a discount as an alumnus

Go get it we sure could use you if you go down that route

 

[lunico93x]

Just thought I'd update the forum that I managed to get an undertaking on my NMO today without using a solicitor or barrister (cos i couldn't afford one.. lol). It was tough cos the ex solicitor was very aggressive and would not even accept an undertaking. They wanted non-mol and went for the jugular. But using my strong position statement (with exhibits of evidence) which had lots of logical arguments I was able let the Judge have a rethink that the exes statements were not to be taken at face value. It gave me a foothold. I sent in my position statement with the exhibits last night and the judge managed to read it before the hearing. I defended myself robustly with lots of logical arguments (but also with empathy showing that I have nothing against the ex) but also made it clear that I was very happy to make an undertaken in the interest of the ex if this would give her some form of security and peace of mind as I want her to be happy.

To be fair the judge was a very respectful and reasonable guy. He was very sensible and even adjourned the hearing for about 30mins (was a virtual hearing) to allow me and the exe solicitor to talk privately and reach an agreement. I believe that the ex solicitor seeing the strength of my argument and evidence was forced into reconsidering taking an undertaken. The finally managed to convince the ex. I had threatened criminal proceedings on their forged text messages that they attributed to me.

So guys don't give up. It's still doable!!

You got a good result. I've wondered if the gender of the judge matters that much with these things, but more and more I think it does...

And barristers, well, unless they're willing to actually advocate on a matter of principle then they only play a protector of last resort. My barrister for child arrangements is going to be a shark, I'm going to make sure of it, even if I have to go into debt I will find one who has a reputation, ideally a KC.

Congrats on your result! Judges need to be taken to the evidence properly, and it sounds like you did that very effectively.

 

[mikeayo1891]

You got a good result. I've wondered if the gender of the judge matters that much with these things, but more and more I think it does...

And barristers, well, unless they're willing to actually advocate on a matter of principle then they only play a protector of last resort. My barrister for child arrangements is going to be a shark, I'm going to make sure of it, even if I have to go into debt I will find one who has a reputation, ideally a KC.

Congrats on your result! Judges need to be taken to the evidence properly, and it sounds like you did that very effectively.

Cheers mate. I agree you really need shark. Some barristers are just about the money while for others the money is secondary. Sharks take a lot of pride in winning their cases. They take it personal. That's what you need. Even when they lose their clients take satisfaction from the fact that their barrister gave their all.

I agree judges need to be taken to the evidence. One should pick holes in the ex's false submission and make the judge doubt their credibility.