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Section 7 - What happens? How to prepare?
- Thread starter UkDad
- Start date
I have printed notes ready. And I'll take notes.
Do you think it's okay to take show some photographs? I mean they could always say 'I'm not interested'
Feeling very very anxious.
I had notes to refer to so that I knew I had covered everything. They didn't question it.
it's totally normal to feel anxious but it will be over soon. Showing photos is a good thing
@bujanin do you plan on having your printed noted with you during the interview? Or just a notepad?
I think it's fine to ask if you can show photographs.
Good luck with CAFCASS @bujanin !
I get the findings from my own (initial) call with them tomorrow.. so will keep my fingers crossed for both of us!!
I will have my printed notes yes.
Straight back at you mate.Good luck with CAFCASS @bujanin !
I get the findings from my own (initial) call with them tomorrow.. so will keep my fingers crossed for both of us!!
I have been advised to avoid self pity and to be in control of my emotions fwiw.
Hi how do I get Cafcass to actually review evidence in a s7? I have hard evidence via messages and emails that ex had cancelled health appointments when she says she hasn’t, and refused to register birth when she says she hasn’t. I have evidence of loads of positive communication when she says (for strategic reasons) there is none. How can I persuade a Cafcass officer to actually take the time to read the evidence? It’s indisputable and counters all her claims and makes her out to be untruthful and unreliable. I have uploaded a Parenting Plan via Egress to Cafcass but it wasn’t received by the worker doing my safeguarding call, so that didn’t work. No email was provided.
The next hearing is a final hearing (the previous was a FHDRA) we only have 1.5 pages in which to write our statements. There’s no way I can fit in case law or even reference the evidence I have in the discussion of my statement. I have glowing speech therapy reports and nursery reports. I’m now thinking none of these will be seen by the court or by Cafcass.
Also, how do I persuade the appointed Cafcass worker to visit our child in our home?
Also, slightly off topic but how do I request a DJ instead of a magistrate. I just get crucified by magistrates who don’t care or take the time to read up on the history of the case or care about evidence or legalities. Ex has (ridiculously and entirely falsely) got two domestic abuse support workers in court with her and it’s clearly influencing the magistrates. I presume the abuse is that I am taking her to court to protect our child that the court application is a form of “control”.
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One and a half pages isn't much, but that doesn't limit how much evidence you can attach - although appreciate the 1.5 pages doesn't give you much scope to refer to the evidence, but maybe one good sentence or paragraph could incorporate/precis a lot of issues then see exhibits a to x!
I'm not sure if Cafcass will look at evidence. My attempt (quite a lot of years ago) was ignored - this was actually in court with evidence with me in a folder to prove what she was saying was untrue. Cafcass officer didn't want to see it.
You could try but I think you'll need to rely on just telling the Cafcass officer that xyz isn't true and you have plenty of evidence to prove the opposite. And repeat the mantra "I just want the children to have happy loving homes with both parents".
You could request a DJ by emailing the court but it's unlikely to get changed. However, if the final hearing doesn't go well, and you have magistrates, then you can appeal and then you'll get a senior Judge. No need for permission to appeal if it's magistrates.
I'm not sure if Cafcass will look at evidence. My attempt (quite a lot of years ago) was ignored - this was actually in court with evidence with me in a folder to prove what she was saying was untrue. Cafcass officer didn't want to see it.
You could try but I think you'll need to rely on just telling the Cafcass officer that xyz isn't true and you have plenty of evidence to prove the opposite. And repeat the mantra "I just want the children to have happy loving homes with both parents".
You could request a DJ by emailing the court but it's unlikely to get changed. However, if the final hearing doesn't go well, and you have magistrates, then you can appeal and then you'll get a senior Judge. No need for permission to appeal if it's magistrates.
Thanks yeah. I was thinking about something similar, for referencing the exhibits I mean. I know that, with any appeal, you can’t introduce new evidence. So I should make sure it’s all in there. I know they say not to add superfluous evidence but I think the risk of not adding something which I may later rely on, is greater.
The request to have a DJ might be better coming from a solicitor. I can’t escape the fact that as a LIP I have no clout and just get ignored. But I also can’t afford a solicitor so…I also can’t afford to fork out for a barrister twice (if an appeal is necessary) but maybe I can max out another £10k credit card and see how that goes. FML
I’ve asked for an email address for the FCA. At present theirs is an Egress messaging service but any documents I submit to that just get lost in the ether. I can prove everything I say and disprove everything she says, but I just need an opportunity to do so. I know the court won’t care so the FCA is my only hope. Perhaps if I make a bold claim like “I have noticed alienating behaviours and I would like the opportunity to satisfy your professional curiosity and present evidence” or “mum has made serious allegations of abuse and neglect and so I welcome the opportunity to provide evidence that disproves her claims, and I welcome the opportunity for our child to be observed in his paternal home”. I can’t hope but feel they will just say “I don’t have time for that, let’s just have an interview and get your anecdotal evidence instead”.
Thanks again
The request to have a DJ might be better coming from a solicitor. I can’t escape the fact that as a LIP I have no clout and just get ignored. But I also can’t afford a solicitor so…I also can’t afford to fork out for a barrister twice (if an appeal is necessary) but maybe I can max out another £10k credit card and see how that goes. FML
I’ve asked for an email address for the FCA. At present theirs is an Egress messaging service but any documents I submit to that just get lost in the ether. I can prove everything I say and disprove everything she says, but I just need an opportunity to do so. I know the court won’t care so the FCA is my only hope. Perhaps if I make a bold claim like “I have noticed alienating behaviours and I would like the opportunity to satisfy your professional curiosity and present evidence” or “mum has made serious allegations of abuse and neglect and so I welcome the opportunity to provide evidence that disproves her claims, and I welcome the opportunity for our child to be observed in his paternal home”. I can’t hope but feel they will just say “I don’t have time for that, let’s just have an interview and get your anecdotal evidence instead”.
Thanks again
I understand the frustration, but I wouldn't try and send evidence to Cafcass in advance - as you say it just disappears into the ether. I'd rely on having it at your final hearing. If the S7 isn't favourable you can also cross examine Cafcass at the final hearing. So are you having a barrister for the final hearing? To be honest I don't think it would make any difference if you or a solicitor asked for a DJ. You could try, but if they decide to change it to a DJ it will probably put your final hearing date back. However much you want them to see alienating behaviours you need to maybe be more subtle about it when talking to the Cafcass officer - say things that make them think it might be alienating behaviours. It's better not to accuse it directly IMO. At court your barrister can say it.
Yeah I understand. I mean the behaviours I mention are on the Cafcass Alienating Behaviours checklist. Persistent attempts to downwardly revise child’s time with Dad. Badmouthing me to authorities (e.g. doctors) with unsubstantiated allegations. Excluding me from involvement in medical and educational decisions. I know it’s best for them to connect the dots. Maybe I could say “very worrying behaviours that are excluding me and freezing me out of (child’s) life, and having an impact on parent-child relationship”. Or maybe something slightly more pithy than that!
Given the option of facing those magistrates again or facing a DJ in a delayed hearing I know what I’d prefer! My focus should be on the s7 though really. I know how crucial it is.
I know it's frustrating but that's to show the court and for the court to determine. Cafcass will probably be more interested in your relationship with the child. You could maybe drop the odd hint about something you've noticed that makes child anxious etc. You just need to give specifics rather than analyse it for them. Eg it's worrying when I don't have details of GP or medical conditions in case child needs attention when with me.
What you want to avoid is Cafcass saying you're negative about the ex and accusing her of things as they aren't going to take the child away from her - so really this is analysing you - not the ex. If they pick anything up - fine - if they don't - you deal with that in court.
The section 7 isn;t the court case - it's the welfare check - also Cafcass are biased towards Mothers generally and don't really get PA (aren't even trained in it sometimes). Courts and Judges know more about it. Your best bet IMO is to just get the Cafcass officer to warm to you. Some people have had terrible S7's - but you can't change that by trying to control it. If you suggest anything negative about the ex they're more likely to gang up on you. Concerns about the child are something else but be careful.
What you want to avoid is Cafcass saying you're negative about the ex and accusing her of things as they aren't going to take the child away from her - so really this is analysing you - not the ex. If they pick anything up - fine - if they don't - you deal with that in court.
The section 7 isn;t the court case - it's the welfare check - also Cafcass are biased towards Mothers generally and don't really get PA (aren't even trained in it sometimes). Courts and Judges know more about it. Your best bet IMO is to just get the Cafcass officer to warm to you. Some people have had terrible S7's - but you can't change that by trying to control it. If you suggest anything negative about the ex they're more likely to gang up on you. Concerns about the child are something else but be careful.
Cheers. Don’t get me wrong I understand the importance of emphasising the great relationship I have with our child, the parenting style we have at home, the way we help him learn, and grow and manage his emotions. But the safeguarding phone call came out with a lot of issues that “require further exploration”, differing takes on the same thing and allegations of hostile communications etc. So, it seems topsy turvy, but the burden of proof now rests on me to prove that we do communicate (mum has purposefully stopped communicating now which hasn’t helped) and that my interpretation of events is the truthful one.
I think cancelling health appointments and surgery against doctor’s recommendations, without my knowledge and against my wishes, is a concern about the child. If I make a claim I want to evidence it, otherwise it’s classed as “hearsay”. “Removing child from an educational setting without my consent or knowledge and against educator’s advice, that is a legitimate concern of mine. Here is the evidence that it happened.” I could perhaps raise that it’s a worrying pattern of behaviour, link it to attempts to downwardly revise time with dad and attempts to negatively characterise Dad to authorities and just say “it’s a concern of mine which is why I’m raising it but, having said that, the overwhelming majority of communication and cooperation is good.” “Mum clearly loves (child) very much and I don’t have any concerns about neglect or anything like that”.
If I’m asked “mum says child has said this about your house - what do you say to the allegation?” I intend to say “I’m really surprised to hear that, it’s not in any way true and it doesn’t sound like something “child” would say. I welcome the chance for you to see xyz in our home to prove it is safe and nurturing and xyz is thriving in it.”
I guess the reasons behind mentioning my concerns are 1) it would be remiss of me not to mention (in as objective a manner as possible) legitimate safety concerns.
2) to have something included in the report about my ongoing marginalisation from decisions, even if just a passing mention. I realise that there’s nothing to make Cafcass say “right we’re removing child from mum” - but that’s not what I want anyway. I just want our child to know he has two equal parents who are equally important in his life.
3) to justify or partly justify a criticism that is going to be levelled at me. I won’t go into it but the issue has led to all sorts of criticism from Cafcass and Mum. Basically I restored one of his names that we gave him when he was a baby. His birth wasn’t registered for 9 months in order to prevent me getting PR. After 8 months my close family and I had a naming ceremony and I applied for a bank account with the names Mum and I had agreed. Mum eventually registered child but excluded me from BC and swapped out the agreed middle name (with a link to my family) for a different name (with a link to her family). It took another year before I could get PR (mum refused to grant it at FHDRA). Anyway when I got PR I re-registered birth with father’s details included in order that child knows I’ve always been in his life. And I restored his omitted name but also kept the name she gave him. I had evidence it was in use when he was a baby so that was sufficient for the registrar and a legal process. But in doing the re-registration, and specifically in restoring his name without conferring, I left myself open to heavy criticism. Mum has applied to remove it again. Clusterf*ck. Explaining the back story might take the edge off it (but I expect Cafcass don’t really care an awful lot about history and context). The other criticism was that I applied and paid for his passport (including mum’s name), the magistrate claimed this was illegal which I found baffling as logically only one parent can sit in front of a laptop and complete the application. It isn’t illegal.
Something I’m not 100% sure on is how much to mention my partner. I care for our child one-to-one but obviously my partner helps with all the day-to-day stuff too. Child and step mum adore each other. We are a little family (a family within a family, not sure if describing the three of us as a family will be deemed antagonistic). I guess I’ll just be honest.
Just to go back to restoring child’s name: we had a naming ceremony, the certificate is in his baby box, there are photos of the day, there is a eulogy in his baby box for the relative whose name he was given, there is a letter from me saying how proud it would have made said relative. He had a savings account with that name. To then extinguish that link to my family, well I didn’t want to do it basically. I kept in both links to each side of his family. But yeah I’ve put my foot in it.
Anyway, I’ll move my mind onto other things for now. Doesn’t do well to dwell on it 24/7! Think I’m going insane. I should check my blood pressure. Thanks for the feedback as always much appreciated