Section 7 report says for child to live with mother and spend time with father please help

[lightinthetunnel]

Hi forum

Ex-partner is highly manipulative, sneaky and abusive (emotionally and psychologically). Access was cut with false allegations of DV so mother could get more money in the financial remedies. No evidence to support this. I filed a C100 for our child to live with me and spend time with her mother. Section 7 went against me due to:

- Conflict (i tried to avoid it and said multiple times there's no conflict from myside but mother keeps coming up with new false allegations and evil)

- Because I got stuck in a contact center as supervisors were rejected by mother until section 7 report, the report says I do not currently spend enough time with our child for her to move residence

Child is 4 years old

Cafcass visited our child and he said he wants to spend everyday with father and doesn't want to be around her mother (she's emotionally abusive but difficult to prove). Also shows evidence of mother using cafcass officer photograph and telling him to say negative about dad. Other evidence of coaching behaviour too. Despite our child wanting to live with me cafcass have ignored it saying child is too young. I have been recommended a titration of visits unsupervised and then for us to work out the rest or go to final hearing. I can't work anything out with a toxic person who wants me to have 0 impact in our child's life except my money. I've emailed mother a proposal working to equal shared care but as usual no response. Mother will think now she has cafcass recommendation she can do whatever she wants.

How do I get out of this situation and instead go for 50/50. Honestly, is the case likely to be over for me so I can mentally prepare? Can a barrister use the coaching comments from cafcass and argue 50/50 effectively or is it a waste of time. Cafcass also said they will attend next final dispute hearing due to sickness and they have discharged themselves from the case. Seems like satus quo decides the fate. What can I say to list my case with a judge to see if they can go against the section 7 report. Cafcass did telephone interviews with myself and my ex-partner (ex-partners interview was just slinging mud, mainly finances) and have not seen us together with our child. Contact centre reports of me are very positive. Mother also breached court order of sending weekly photographs and allowing a religious day to be spent together - i haven't informed court yet.


I feel I let our child down, like a failure. Solicitor was awful and really damaged my case (going for primary carer trying to move residence instead of equal daily care and also telling me not to go to the contact centre at all as it was disproportionate). I am self-representing at the moment. Thankfully, i got a cheap barrister for the last hearing and I got contact centre reports to move to unsupervised visits.



Please help me - i'd rather hear the truth no matter how much it hurts. Thanks all, I feel so bad for others that are in this mess.

 

[MagicJ]

Hi @lightinthetunnel , welcome to the forum and I'm really sorry to hear about what's been happening.

Solicitors are hit and miss and ultimately a good Barrister is worth the money so you're headed in the right direction.

An S7 report can be undermined by a barrister at a Final Hearing through cross examination of the Cafcass officer however if I'm not mistaken that would undermine the whole report.

Positive contact centre reports weigh well in your favour so it's good you have those.

I know it feels tough, you're in the middle of the process & had an S7 you weren't expecting

Actually, you've done really well, you've complied with the contact centre, you've kept involved even with all the hurdles and bad advice.

When is your next hearing date?

I presume you've had an initial FHDRA and the next hearing is a Directions Appointment as opposed to another FHDRA.

Stay Strong and keep fighting for your daughter!

 

[lightinthetunnel]

Hi @lightinthetunnel , welcome to the forum and I'm really sorry to hear about what's been happening.

Solicitors are hit and miss and ultimately a good Barrister is worth the money so you're headed in the right direction.

An S7 report can be undermined by a barrister at a Final Hearing through cross examination of the Cafcass officer however if I'm not mistaken that would undermine the whole report.

Positive contact centre reports weigh well in your favour so it's good you have those.

I know it feels tough, you're in the middle of the process & had an S7 you weren't expecting

Actually, you've done really well, you've complied with the contact centre, you've kept involved even with all the hurdles and bad advice.

When is your next hearing date?

I presume you've had an initial FHDRA and the next hearing is a Directions Appointment as opposed to another FHDRA.

Stay Strong and keep fighting for your daughter!

Thank you Magic, I appreciate your kind words. Next hearing is a final dispute resolution with a legal advisor and no magistrates/judge so a waste of time as ex will not agree to anything. I've emailed barristers that i've screened that may be good but have no proper reviews. Do I go for as much time as possible to try and make 50/50 as much as possible and if not I could reapply in 6-12/12 to step up the days or should my stance be trying to overturn the lives with ex and spend time with me order. I wont be able to go on holidays anymore without ex causing issues with a lives with ex order.

Neither myself or ex were seen with our child. I have the contact center highly positive reports and ex has not been seen with child at all so it's not great that even though I've alledged significant safeguarding concerns and child doesn't want to be with mother that we are in this position.

Next hearing is mid January but will need to go for an interim hearing when ex likely obstructs stepping up time with me. Contact center costs is a way of her financially abusing me. So annoying having multiple cases with only a legal advisor where 0 happens except a following interim hearing.

 

[Dirge]

"I feel I let our child down, like a failure." Stay positive @lightinthe tunnel, the system is heavily biased in favour of the mothers. I think ex's try to throw as many hurdles at fathers as they can in the hope they will give in and walk away. Hang in there for the sake of your child. You will need to play the long game. Aim for small incremental steps in time with your child. Maybe 50/50 is unrealistic at this stage if you are only getting supervised time at mo. The child will be too young for the system to take into account their views, I believe that starts around 9 - 10 ish. Not sure what you mean by final dispute resolution - if it's not a final hearing aim for some kind of progressive interim order where you get an hour or two more every couple of months or so.
I would be careful about mudslinging at the ex. Mum's can say what they want, when Dads make allegations, no matter how well founded, it's seen as "conflict". Conflict equals courts maintaining the status quo. I would keep things polite and business like in communications with ex, even if inside you are calling her every name under the son. Goodluck mate. Others on here with more experience of section 7 will no doubt reply in due course.

 

[lightinthetunnel]

"I feel I let our child down, like a failure." Stay positive @lightinthe tunnel, the system is heavily biased in favour of the mothers. I think ex's try to throw as many hurdles at fathers as they can in the hope they will give in and walk away. Hang in there for the sake of your child. You will need to play the long game. Aim for small incremental steps in time with your child. Maybe 50/50 is unrealistic at this stage if you are only getting supervised time at mo. The child will be too young for the system to take into account their views, I believe that starts around 9 - 10 ish. Not sure what you mean by final dispute resolution - if it's not a final hearing aim for some kind of progressive interim order where you get an hour or two more every couple of months or so.
I would be careful about mudslinging at the ex. Mum's can say what they want, when Dads make allegations, no matter how well founded, it's seen as "conflict". Conflict equals courts maintaining the status quo. I would keep things polite and business like in communications with ex, even if inside you are calling her every name under the son. Goodluck mate. Others on here with more experience of section 7 will no doubt reply in due course.

Thanks Dirge, sorry next hearing is a dispute resolution appointment. Cafcass recommend a quick titration over 6 weeks to one night and one day per week then parents to decide what to do next (ex wont engage in discussions). I wont sling any mud back but will be wise to mention to breaches in court orders in my positional statement and then say something that (the following breaches have occurred however, I have no conflict with her and would like us to follow the court orders). I feel happy that I will be out of the contact centre unsupervised even if its only 1 day per week to start

 

[Another disposable father]

Sounds like we're both in a very similar situation (and there's many more in this same situation where our ex is the abusive one, and cafcass and the courts are siding with them).

Others that are more experienced might have a different view but here's mine:-

A contested change of residence from mother to father is as rare as rocking horse sh*t, the mother would literally have to be a complete mess. Now, that doesn't mean you shouldn't be asking for it even if it's incredibly unlikely. If you can make a good argument that it's needed and in the child's best interest (as it seems you can) - then in my view that's what you should be asking for (as you have).

I would not say that the current situation of supervised contact is a strong or credible argument against a transfer of residence. The current situation is not caused by you, it's inflicted by the mother. Your involvement in the child's life before mother stopped contact will be incredibly important. In my view, as long as you can demonstrate you are capable of full time residence then it means nothing that you only currently have supervised.

I don't think you need to be too stressful about changing your position to 50/50 as soon as possible. You may well wish to do that but you can have a think about it and if so just state this in your next position statement, briefly mention that on reflection that is what you now believe to be in the child's best interest, and if you have a proposed parenting plan.

I think you will like my final comment, please research lives with both parents orders/shared care orders. Parents do not need to split 50/50 for an order for shared care/residence with both parents, I know you might want it but basically I'm trying to say that whatever ridiculous plan the judge may dream up - they will still have a difficult job to deny your request for that to be a lives with both parents order. The child can have 2 residences, just as adults can, you could even theoretically have a lives with both parents order even if one parent didn't have any overnight contact. This will give you the same rights for holidays and I believe it's also helpful for settling disputes with the CMS.

 

[MagicJ]

Thank you Magic, I appreciate your kind words. Next hearing is a final dispute resolution with a legal advisor and no magistrates/judge so a waste of time as ex will not agree to anything. I've emailed barristers that i've screened that may be good but have no proper reviews. Do I go for as much time as possible to try and make 50/50 as much as possible and if not I could reapply in 6-12/12 to step up the days or should my stance be trying to overturn the lives with ex and spend time with me order. I wont be able to go on holidays anymore without ex causing issues with a lives with ex order.

Neither myself or ex were seen with our child. I have the contact center highly positive reports and ex has not been seen with child at all so it's not great that even though I've alledged significant safeguarding concerns and child doesn't want to be with mother that we are in this position.

Next hearing is mid January but will need to go for an interim hearing when ex likely obstructs stepping up time with me. Contact center costs is a way of her financially abusing me. So annoying having multiple cases with only a legal advisor where 0 happens except a following interim hearing.

It's a tough position that you're in but the prize isn't here, it's what you can get at the end of the case.

The fact you've got interim & stepped progression speaks volumes @winger & @Richie1989 can hopefully comment on that experience, what it meant for them and how they moved forward from there to further progression & then building on that again.

As you rightly point out, an LA is basically for case management which means it's important that your Barrister works to push this to a FH.
If you want to dismiss the S7, then he needs to argue that Cafcass cannot remove themselves from the case & should be present at FH.

As @Another disposable father has responded well to your points on Residence vs 50/50, so I will not expand except to reiterate that it is incredibly rare for residence to be transferred & you'd have to multiple agencies & experts involved before you got to such a stage, so do think about this.
There are members who have been through that & it is a committed process.

You'll find all the help & support you need from the forum, be sure to lean into us as you need!

 

[Ash]

Cafcass always seem to gang up with the Mother if a Dad applies for residence. I don’t see a problem at all with changing your final proposal to 50/50 shared care. Unless you have hard evidence that your ex is a danger to the child you’re not going to get sole residency. And as Cafcass have decided she’s a safe parent then I can’t see you can argue otherwise.

He’s a barrister could cross examine the Cafcass officer and undermine the report - but you’d still need hard evidence to show your ex is a danger to the child.

Not sure why there’s a other DRA - seems a waste of time. But maybe Cafcass hope you’ll both reach agreement rather than the court decide.

The thing is 50/50 puts you in a strong position for sole residency later if your ex does something.

So some difficult decisions. You could propose 50/50 at the DRA and see if she agrees. If you’re going to do that then take a draft order with you that has clear wording and no loopholes.

There are cases when a good barrister persuades a Judge to transfer residency but I don’t think that’s likely with a first application.

 

[Richie1989]

Hi forum

Ex-partner is highly manipulative, sneaky and abusive (emotionally and psychologically). Access was cut with false allegations of DV so mother could get more money in the financial remedies. No evidence to support this. I filed a C100 for our child to live with me and spend time with her mother. Section 7 went against me due to:

- Conflict (i tried to avoid it and said multiple times there's no conflict from myside but mother keeps coming up with new false allegations and evil)

- Because I got stuck in a contact center as supervisors were rejected by mother until section 7 report, the report says I do not currently spend enough time with our child for her to move residence

Child is 4 years old

Cafcass visited our child and he said he wants to spend everyday with father and doesn't want to be around her mother (she's emotionally abusive but difficult to prove). Also shows evidence of mother using cafcass officer photograph and telling him to say negative about dad. Other evidence of coaching behaviour too. Despite our child wanting to live with me cafcass have ignored it saying child is too young. I have been recommended a titration of visits unsupervised and then for us to work out the rest or go to final hearing. I can't work anything out with a toxic person who wants me to have 0 impact in our child's life except my money. I've emailed mother a proposal working to equal shared care but as usual no response. Mother will think now she has cafcass recommendation she can do whatever she wants.

How do I get out of this situation and instead go for 50/50. Honestly, is the case likely to be over for me so I can mentally prepare? Can a barrister use the coaching comments from cafcass and argue 50/50 effectively or is it a waste of time. Cafcass also said they will attend next final dispute hearing due to sickness and they have discharged themselves from the case. Seems like satus quo decides the fate. What can I say to list my case with a judge to see if they can go against the section 7 report. Cafcass did telephone interviews with myself and my ex-partner (ex-partners interview was just slinging mud, mainly finances) and have not seen us together with our child. Contact centre reports of me are very positive. Mother also breached court order of sending weekly photographs and allowing a religious day to be spent together - i haven't informed court yet.


I feel I let our child down, like a failure. Solicitor was awful and really damaged my case (going for primary carer trying to move residence instead of equal daily care and also telling me not to go to the contact centre at all as it was disproportionate). I am self-representing at the moment. Thankfully, i got a cheap barrister for the last hearing and I got contact centre reports to move to unsupervised visits.



Please help me - i'd rather hear the truth no matter how much it hurts. Thanks all, I feel so bad for others that are in this mess.

Hi, thanks for sharing!
This is very very similar to the situation I found myself in. I was bombarded with false allegations and I also submitted the C100. I also felt that cafcass was more sided with my ex but when the report actually came through they just documented what we both said and the recommendation was for me to have alcohol tests and a mental health report done due to the false allegations. I also mentioned that I have concerns about my ex drinking and potential post natal due to her bizarre behaviour and it fell on deaf ears! However, I had to jump through all the hoops and more before eventually having to submit an urgent application as my ex even though I passed 2 back to back Peth tests and no mental health history apart from anxiety they have caused me! She still wouldnt allow unsupervised. My ex had to give me something so things moved to unsupervised and 1 over night a fort right at the urgent hearing. So it’s a common place you find yourself.

I also felt like you, really down and felt like my attempts were hopeless. However, that’s not been the case. What I have found is when people lie it’s unsustainable! They eventually bang themselves. It’s imperative in the meantime you don’t lose your head. Don’t call names, don’t swear! Don’t do anything that could be used against you to prove your aggressive etc. I do mean be an Angel as well or the judge, barrister and ex will potentially gang up on you. If you remain calm and collective, rise above the nonsense the judge really will see this and reward this when it get it a final hearing. In the meantime at every hearing prior to final hearing just keep chipping away and more access and over nights unsupervised. Even if it’s 1 over night during interim period it shows that you are no danger and capable of parenting which contradictes the allegations. It will feel like it’s all one sided during this process but it’s just the way the system works. Read some literature on family Law and also maybe listen to Vincent McGovern (families need fathers). This will be useful in knowing it’s common ground and what you are up against and what you need to do. It’s so vital you keep your head and the agencies drop away and then it’s level grounds (kind off). Proving you are of no danger and just want what’s best for your little one it’s key to it all. Even if your ex punches you in the face just ignore it. Be careful of any communication. Document everything! For example I filmed every single dropoff and pickup after the false allegations to prevent anymore and meant they was disarmed so it allowed things to just play out, they did try other horrendous tactics to antagonise and I simply just sat on my hands. Even if they don’t drop the kids off don’t go up to the house just document it, make a little video if need be and let it go. It’s all I just but think of it as little tests to prove to the judge you can rise above it and your ex is provoking you.

Talk to as many people as you can, it’s surprising how coming your situation is. This really helped me feel it was less personal and actually coming tactics. So surely the courts/barristers/solicitors are getting used to this. My solicitor only last week was taking to me in quite some detail about what is happening to some dads and how common it is. Encouraging surely!

Also, what ever you do don’t accuse as part of your defence. Don’t make out your ex is bonkers even if she is. You need to try demonstrate you want to be amicable. Don’t mud sling! It’s so hard not to it really is but don’t use language that is critical of your ex behaviour or character. Don’t use phrases like “parental alienation”. You could be seen as coercive and controlling by saying this.
When you do see your child unsupervised take photos of you being out, cooking, brushing teeth, playing, having fun with extended family etc. all the things that proves you have an healthy relationship with your child and you really want to help mother Nurture them. It’s all about showing the judges you want to be a team and conpremt healthily for the good of the child. If the judge gets a sniff it will be Volatile during dropoffs and pickups they won’t expose the child to this which could limit your time with your child also.

I really hope this helps!
I can’t express enough though how you need to be calm and collective even if I’m your head you want to smash a wall down. Rise above their lies! Keep approve and keep strong. Don’t suffer in silence keep taking. Everybody in here will do all they can to help out

 

[bujanin]

Also, what ever you do don’t accuse as part of your defence. Don’t make out your ex is bonkers even if she is. You need to try demonstrate you want to be amicable. Don’t mud sling! It’s so hard not to it really is but don’t use language that is critical of your ex behaviour or character. Don’t use phrases like “parental alienation”. You could be seen as coercive and controlling by saying this.

This is troubling me at the moment. After each supervised - by two teachers - visit to my little ones school I'll keep a note if there's been something said or done that fits the decription of an alienating behaviour. As I approach a directions hearing very soon I have dates, what occured and who was present for 22 occasions. Some of the behaviours of my partner are awful, they are alienating behaviours, no doubt.

But I have learnt that acrimony and a combative relationship will not be helpful to my cause. So it's a dilemma b/c I am being alienated in a brutal manner. I have a new barrister who will advise as to whether we submit the list but I do value opinions from this forum.

 

[bujanin]

This is troubling me at the moment. After each supervised - by two teachers - visit to my little ones school I'll keep a note if there's been something said or done that fits the decription of an alienating behaviour. As I approach a directions hearing very soon I have dates, what occured and who was present for 22 occasions. Some of the behaviours of my partner are awful, they are alienating behaviours, no doubt.

But I have learnt that acrimony and a combative relationship will not be helpful to my cause. So it's a dilemma b/c I am being alienated in a brutal manner. I have a new barrister who will advise as to whether we submit the list but I do value opinions from this forum.

Sorry I think this is known as hijacking the thread. Please disregard it.

 

[Richie1989]

This is troubling me at the moment. After each supervised - by two teachers - visit to my little ones school I'll keep a note if there's been something said or done that fits the decription of an alienating behaviour. As I approach a directions hearing very soon I have dates, what occured and who was present for 22 occasions. Some of the behaviours of my partner are awful, they are alienating behaviours, no doubt.

But I have learnt that acrimony and a combative relationship will not be helpful to my cause. So it's a dilemma b/c I am being alienated in a brutal manner. I have a new barrister who will advise as to whether we submit the list but I do value opinions from this forum.

100% barristers will obviously advise better on your approach. I often think of there is hints you enough evidence will the barrister be brave enough to go for the throat! I also have quite a lot of evidence backing up parental alienation but as we are getting on a lot better maybe this is a influencing factor for my case. Every case is different and we can only learn from other peoples experience but yes hopefully at some point barristers/solicitors will feel more comfortable with how they put things together with regards to alienating evidence

 

[fredfred]

How did you get on did you manage to chanellge to 50/50

 

[lightinthetunnel]

How did you get on did you manage to chanellge to 50/50

I didn't in the end. Courts behave different across the UK and some judges/courts are more inclined to award 50/50. In my area most cases are run by magistrates. Magistrates will follow cafcass' advice in nearly all cases as 'experts.' To go against an 'expert' opinion is unlikely in the courts especially if you have magistrates. Cafcass are not educated to the level of social workers that work in the NHS. Imo they are not experts and are easily manipulated. Most cafcass workers are young Caucasian females that side with mothers. Once you get a recommendation like spends with time order in a magistrate court you are screwed. The best thing I did was get rid of all legal representatives give the mother what she wants but make it a lives with both consent order and get as much time with your child as possible. Aslong as there's no safeguarding issues and distance isn't too far you'll put yourself in a position to extend time. It's key you don't react negative to any hostility.

I've learnt the family courts are a circus. Whoever lies the most convincing wins their case with no repercussions. Stopping contact for made up reasons whilst avoiding a molestation order wins the case based on a new status quo. If you have a judge you stand a chance but can be unpredictable. If you have magistrates then the poorly educated cafcass workers becomes the judge (and they know it) and they will say 'its only a refommendation.' Their recommendation is as strong as a single joint expert report in financial remedies.

In my case I was judged wrongly in 80% of my cases and my manipulated ex partner played cafcass (which also means magistrates) and a couple of judges like a fiddle. Only 2 judges saw past her BS. CMS will likely influence all court cases but CMS is not allowed to be spoken of in either financial remedies even though without CMS there could be no hostility between sides and 50/50 like it should be. The whole system is corrupt. If men cut contact with BS and abused their ex's with CMS eventually the media will see and then the government will change but it's so unethical it makes me feel ill

 

[Peanut 21]

Sadly your post is true in most cases.

 

[Ash]

If it was a bad result with magistrates, then you can appeal and don't need permission to appeal. If you appeal you get a District Judge.

 

[lightinthetunnel]

If it was a bad result with magistrates, then you can appeal and don't need permission to appeal. If you appeal you get a District Judge.

Certain grounds need to be met to overturn a decision and cafcass aren't budginf. I feel it just prolongs the stress for an outcome that isn't achievable meanwhile the stress eats away impacting work/being a dad etc. If cafcass say hostility between sides even though it's on sided then it's unlikely equal shared care will be provided by the courts when primary carer is against it in my area. Similarly appeals in financial remedies rarely go anywhere too.

Only successful way to be primary carer long term is do what my ex did to me. Thankfully for financial remedies I got rid of my legal team and managed to do very well which is rare when I have less nights per week with our child.

 

[Ash]

Yes there needs to grounds to say the Magistrates was wrong/made a mistake. One argument is if they relied solely on a Cafcass report and there's caselaw on that. Particularly if the decision didn't match the welfare check list (which can be argued). Magistrates aren't lawyers or qualified Judges so it's easier to argue they made a mistake.

 

[lightinthetunnel]

Yes there needs to grounds to say the Magistrates was wrong/made a mistake. One argument is if they relied solely on a Cafcass report and there's caselaw on that. Particularly if the decision didn't match the welfare check list (which can be argued). Magistrates aren't lawyers or qualified Judges so it's easier to argue they made a mistake.

Difficult with that is the decision is qualalitive. It's easy to justify the welfare check list with a wide scope of decisions. A no contact decision changing to a spends with time maybe possible with the welfare check list but it is difficult to argue a spends with time to lives with both order with an extremely hostile ex especially if status quo of child is set and child is happy. I've wasted 20k on my child arrangement and got a better outcome as soon as I cut out the legal representatives. I've heard in areas like London court decisions are generally different. From my experience appeals and decisions against an 'expert' decision is unlikely. Best way to move forward imo is negotiate a better deal. It's like fighting a war with sticks when the otherwise has guns. Diplomacy is key

 

[Ash]

it is difficult to argue a spends with time to lives with both order with an extremely hostile ex

That's actually one reason to have lives with both - if the ex is hostile - there's caselaw on that. However solicitors can make things more adversarial. And yes 99% of the time courts follow Cafcass recommendations - the only solution to that is to cross examine Cafcass at a final hearing or appeal the decision. And cross examining Cafcass isn't as effective with magistrates instead of a District Judge.

I was told (North of England) by a solicitor that they "don't do shared care here - maybe down south" - which was completely wrong. Thankfully I sought alternative advice, went for it and got it - in particular because my ex was hostile.

But yes, if you can negotiate a better deal with an ex that sounds good.