Scott schedule-responses help

[lostdad81]

I am LIP on CAO, am in process of responding to my ex's Scott schedule which is due to submit for DRA (very soon) so the court can determine of FF is necessary. One allegations am stuck to respond on tack-tick/balanced manner.

Question: Before the CAO, when i have unsupervised contact with my son, always am carrying a voice recording device and keep in my pocket through out the visit with my son. one of the allegation is during the last visit before CAO is, I was yelling at him but this is not true, can i respond to it as am carrying a device and all recorded to prove ex’s is only a allegation. if this is legal how to respond her?

 

[Resolute]

It is only an allegation, regardless of your recording. At this point, I would be inclined to deny the allegation and keep your evidence in hand. The burden of proof is on your ex.

 

[lostdad81]

Thank you @Resolute, in this case can i just resend below
‘This is untrue and only an allegation’ or should i also include like - Furthermore requesting the court to allow exhibition upon request

 

[Resolute]

Not my area of expertise.

I overdid it in my response. It only made them go scurrying off for other mud to sling at me.

In the same situation again I would go with something really simple.

"This allegation is denied."

If it goes to fact finding. That is where you get involved in detailed responses and the evidence you can bring to bear. The position statement could give some detail in general terms. Maybe something that shows convenient timing of the allegations, highlights the absence of prior police or social services involvement. Some narrative or timeline that shows a general lack of credibility. My understanding is that the court has to decide whether or not the allegations must be resolved in order for a conclusion to be made on child arrangements. This is about how relevant they are and whether or not they warrant closer investigation. It is not the investigation as such.

That's how I see it.

See what others say.

 

[scooter]

I am LIP on CAO, am in process of responding to my ex's Scott schedule which is due to submit for DRA (very soon) so the court can determine of FF is necessary. One allegations am stuck to respond on tack-tick/balanced manner.

Question: Before the CAO, when i have unsupervised contact with my son, always am carrying a voice recording device and keep in my pocket through out the visit with my son. one of the allegation is during the last visit before CAO is, I was yelling at him but this is not true, can i respond to it as am carrying a device and all recorded to prove ex’s is only a allegation. if this is legal how to respond her?

I’ve done the exact same thing as yourself and my ex is now contesting to get the recordings removed before the fact finding hearing

 

[Ash]

Not really my area of expertise either. Others who have done Scott schedules may be able to help more.

I would probably put "This allegation is untrue".

 

[lostdad81]

Not my area of expertise.

I overdid it in my response. It only made them go scurrying off for other mud to sling at me.

In the same situation again I would go with something really simple.

"This allegation is denied."

If it goes to fact finding. That is where you get involved in detailed responses and the evidence you can bring to bear. The position statement could give some detail in general terms. Maybe something that shows convenient timing of the allegations, highlights the absence of prior police or social services involvement. Some narrative or timeline that shows a general lack of credibility. My understanding is that the court has to decide whether or not the allegations must be resolved in order for a conclusion to be made on child arrangements. This is about how relevant they are and whether or not they warrant closer investigation. It is not the investigation as such.

That's how I see it.

See what others say.

If it goes to fact finding. That is where you get involved in detailed responses and the evidence you can bring to bear.

Below is what the wordings from the order

“The applicant must file and serve on the court and respondent, his responses to the respondent’s SS by XX date. The responses should also be cross referenced with evidence in support of his responses. The applicant may file and serve the statement along side the response to SS detailing more information about the allegations and allowing for exhibits to be presented to the court “

 

[Resolute]

Like I say, not my area of expertise

Has she been asked to present her evidence to a DRA?

Does the order mention anything about fact finding?

From my perspective.

It does not make sense for you to answer allegations before you see her evidence for them. It is up to her to convince the court, on the balance of probability, that her allegations are true. She has to show good reason to believe that specific things happened at specific times. You respond to her evidence.

It feels deeply wrong for you to fully expose your position before seeing exactly what you are up against. They can just manoeuvre around what you bring to the table.

Sorry, this doesn't add up to me. It may be my ignorance.

 

[Ash]

It sounds like her allegations are to be submitted to the Judge and your responses to them and you can submit a statement. It doesn't say if that is at a hearing or a fact finding hearing. Sometimes the Judge does it at a DRA. Does it actually say the hearing will be a fact finding hearing?

It does say you can submit evidence to reference your responses. So for example on the date she said you did xyz - if you were away on business in another city, then a receipt proving your location would be good evidence. Or a parking ticket at x time - ie the time she says you did xyz.

I believe one allegation was about being drunk one night. Could you find any evidence to show where you were, what you did that night? Eg did you download a move at 10pm or email someone at 11pm? That shows you were doing something normal at the time she makes the claims.

 

[Peanut 21]

Hi Lostdad,
I'm no expert but I've been with my partner for 6 years and for 5 of those his ex has made loads of allegations against him.

At the start it was obvious to us that she suddenly came up with some allegations when she found out about me.
She came up with a huge list of retrospective allegations at the very first hearing, so it went to a FF.
My partner put next to each one "I refute this allegation". He added some more detail on some replies such as "was on holiday without children on this date" etc.
At this stage there were no findings made against my partner. Cafcass just recommended separated parents course to both parents.

Cue the following year, back to allegations. Back to court. Dad refuted. FF again. 3 allegations made over 6 months of that year, ex breached order in mean time.
Judge used balance of probabilities and said dad may have been rougher than he realised, but equally child may have seen worse than it actually was.
Final hearing, contact back to old schedule, plus extra time for dad in half terms.
Last year new allegation. Ex applied to vary, still in process.

Anyway, basically you refute the allegation and let the alleger do the work in proving what happened.

 

[winger]

Hi Lostdad,
I'm no expert but I've been with my partner for 6 years and for 5 of those his ex has made loads of allegations against him.

At the start it was obvious to us that she suddenly came up with some allegations when she found out about me.
She came up with a huge list of retrospective allegations at the very first hearing, so it went to a FF.
My partner put next to each one "I refute this allegation". He added some more detail on some replies such as "was on holiday without children on this date" etc.
At this stage there were no findings made against my partner. Cafcass just recommended separated parents course to both parents.

Cue the following year, back to allegations. Back to court. Dad refuted. FF again. 3 allegations made over 6 months of that year, ex breached order in mean time.
Judge used balance of probabilities and said dad may have been rougher than he realised, but equally child may have seen worse than it actually was.
Final hearing, contact back to old schedule, plus extra time for dad in half terms.
Last year new allegation. Ex applied to vary, still in process.

Anyway, basically you refute the allegation and let the alleger do the work in proving what happened.

How would someone even go about providing proof, when allegations are made up? Text messages or something?

 

[Resolute]

How would someone even go about providing proof, when allegations are made up? Text messages or something?

This is a part of my concern about what is apparently being asked of lostdad. You cannot prove that something didn't happen in the same way you can prove something did happen. Because of this, providing proof should fall to the person who is saying things happened. If I say you entered a contract with me and you should have done X. It is not your job to show me that no contract exists. It is my job to show that a contract does exist.

My ex's solicitor is doing the exact same in financial proceedings. Asking me to evidence that certain thing have not happened. How can you provide documentation which demonstrates that something did not take place? I did not abuse anybody yesterday. Nobody has provided me with a certificate.

 

[winger]

I'll never understand what goes through these people's heads, unless it's purely just thinking of themselves and wanting to keep control, get their own back for something unrelated, I just don't get it!

This is a part of my concern about what is apparently being asked of lostdad. You cannot prove that something didn't happen in the same way you can prove something did happen. Because of this, providing proof should fall to the person who is saying things happened. If I say you entered a contract with me and you should have done X. It is not your job to show me that no contract exists. It is my job to show that a contract does exist.

My ex's solicitor is doing the exact same in financial proceedings. Asking me to evidence that certain thing have not happened. How can you provide documentation which demonstrates that something did not take place? I did not abuse anybody yesterday. Nobody has provided me with a certificate.

Exactly.
My ex has now added sexual abuse, but she has to prove that, how on earth would she even do that? Or how would I prove not? All I can say it was always consensual.

 

[Ash]

That would be a point to make in a position statement, that since the police decided there was no case to answer for, Mrs Ex has now made different allegations, of a more serious nature. Her side are probably going to push for a fact find.

 

[winger]

That would be a point to make in a position statement, that since the police decided there was no case to answer for, Mrs Ex has now made different allegations, of a more serious nature. Her side are probably going to push for a fact find.

Also, just remembered, another 'allegation' is that I called her a name, but this name is actually something her brother does, always has, since I met her. Would that be good to put in PS? So the court might think, if that is completely wrong, everything could be too.

 

[Ash]

Yes that could be relevant.

 

[Peanut 21]

Sometimes with allegations there's a tiny grain of truth. For example:

You had a normal row with the ex about putting the bins out. She then says "he would force me to put the bins out".

Or, you raised your voice to tell the kids to pack it in when they were having a scrap. She turns it into you aggressively shout in the kids faces over nothing.

Also quite often the things they accuse you of/your behaviour is what they're doing/what they're like.

My partners ex used a text from (at the time) 10 years before where he supposedly called her a d**khead, as 'evidence'. Even though there was no text from him saying that. It was a text from her to him saying not to call her that!!

 

[Peanut 21]

My ex has now added sexual abuse, but she has to prove that, how on earth would she even do that? Or how would I prove not? All I can say it was always consensual.

Not for you to disprove.

 

[lostdad81]

Court has ordered in below chronology for the DRA
1. R to file and serve her SS, the allegations should also be cross reference with evidence to support, and a position statement to serve
2. A to file and serve his replies to R's allegations, his replies should also be cross reference with evidence to support and a position statement to serve

During DRA court will determine if FF is necessary.

 

[lostdad81]

she specified 18 allegations and for most of them she is cross referencing them to
1. Cafcass safeguarding letter
2. NMO position statement (order was made with consent of both parties, and without any admissions or findings, by me, as to the conduct alleged in Ex's witness statement.)
3. Some emails which she sent to her self
4. Complaint to police 6 years ago (there is no formal charge due to lack of evidence)

How is she calling them as evidences?