S7 recommendations, confused.

[John]

Hi Guys, been quiet on here for while, hope you are all well.
So I’ve had my S7 report done, and I’m just looking for opinions and views on the recommendations. I’m a bit confused over what they mean.
The S7 report seems to focus heavily on the breakup of the relationship with ex, and the impact this has had on the children.
All children have expressed they don’t want any extra time with me, and the cafcass officer states in her report:
“”The standardisation between the children in their language at describing their wishes and feelings also indicates a quality of practice or rehearsal and with little concerns as to the feelings of the parent being discussed negatively. The children are also said by both parties to have enjoyed positive relationships with their father prior to separation. These indicators, in the addition to the children requiring TAF support for emotional wellbeing, indicate they have been significantly affected by parental conflict.””
Judging by this comment, it would appear that cafcass finds the children may have been coached in to what to say, and rehearsed this with mother?

But she finds no evidence of alienation going on..

Anyway, these are some of her recommendations:

1. I recommend that minimum contact is four hours on a fortnightly basis for father. This with a view to increasing to a full day contact within a six-month period, guided by each child’s wishes and feelings.

2. I recommend that parties consider the addition of an after school weekly contact on a within six months of this order.

3. I recommend that overnight contact is considered by parties within a year of any order and that guidance for this is to initial take place from a Friday after school to a Saturday PM, then to increase should the children wish, to include a Saturday overnight on a fortnightly basis. Should any of the children wish this to take place earlier, they should be encouraged to do so.

4. I recommend a recital that father is not to pressure or otherwise coerce the children into spending more time with him.

5. I recommend a further recital that mother will encourage the children to increase their time with their father, including offering additional holiday time where parties are able to facilitate.

6. I recommend that father writes a letter to the children that is child focused and addressed the separation and his wish to move on and co-parent with mother for their best interests. This will give him the opportunity to sensitively answer any questions the children have in relation his wishes and feelings about time with them and also the potential for him to apologise for the hurt he has caused with a positive focus on moving forward. He would be able to provide assurances to the girls around wanting them to be the focus of his time and only introducing his partner and children when they are ready for this. This letter should be shared with mother.

Cheers
J

 

[Peanut 21]

Hi Guys, been quiet on here for while, hope you are all well.
So I’ve had my S7 report done, and I’m just looking for opinions and views on the recommendations. I’m a bit confused over what they mean.
The S7 report seems to focus heavily on the breakup of the relationship with ex, and the impact this has had on the children.
All children have expressed they don’t want any extra time with me, and the cafcass officer states in her report:
“”The standardisation between the children in their language at describing their wishes and feelings also indicates a quality of practice or rehearsal and with little concerns as to the feelings of the parent being discussed negatively. The children are also said by both parties to have enjoyed positive relationships with their father prior to separation. These indicators, in the addition to the children requiring TAF support for emotional wellbeing, indicate they have been significantly affected by parental conflict.””
Judging by this comment, it would appear that cafcass finds the children may have been coached in to what to say, and rehearsed this with mother?

But she finds no evidence of alienation going on..

Anyway, these are some of her recommendations:

1. I recommend that minimum contact is four hours on a fortnightly basis for father. This with a view to increasing to a full day contact within a six-month period, guided by each child’s wishes and feelings.

2. I recommend that parties consider the addition of an after school weekly contact on a within six months of this order.

3. I recommend that overnight contact is considered by parties within a year of any order and that guidance for this is to initial take place from a Friday after school to a Saturday PM, then to increase should the children wish, to include a Saturday overnight on a fortnightly basis. Should any of the children wish this to take place earlier, they should be encouraged to do so.

4. I recommend a recital that father is not to pressure or otherwise coerce the children into spending more time with him.

5. I recommend a further recital that mother will encourage the children to increase their time with their father, including offering additional holiday time where parties are able to facilitate.

6. I recommend that father writes a letter to the children that is child focused and addressed the separation and his wish to move on and co-parent with mother for their best interests. This will give him the opportunity to sensitively answer any questions the children have in relation his wishes and feelings about time with them and also the potential for him to apologise for the hurt he has caused with a positive focus on moving forward. He would be able to provide assurances to the girls around wanting them to be the focus of his time and only introducing his partner and children when they are ready for this. This letter should be shared with mother.

Cheers
J

Sounds very similar to my partners cafcass recommendations a few weeks back in terms of start off with 4 hours and build on that.
Wouldn't expect you to disclose your location or anything but it does sound so similar.

They kind of hint at alienation but don't use the terminology. On my partners report the word alignment was used instead.

 

[Ash]

That is typical and biased and missing the point. Yes it highlights that the children have been coached by the Mother. So what do they do? Blame Dad for causing the Mother to do this! ie they tar you both with the same brush and blame "conflict between parents" and use that as an excuse to suggest a ridiculously minimal amount of time with Dad, increasing over a ridiculously long period of time (which is guaranteed to cause more pressure on the kids) and add in some get out clause about if the kids want to blah blah - ignoring that the Mother has an agenda.

Thankfully Judges can order progression to be quicker. But if you have a section 7 like that you need a good barrister at the final hearing to get a better order and your position statements meanwhile need to be 100% child focused and not say anything negative about the ex.

 

[John]

Cheers for your replies..

Ash, yeah I am really considering using a barrister for the final hearing now. I was hoping the s7 would be more positive and in my favour so I could continue as a LiP but now it seems I should really start looking for one.
The mother is playing a very good game, saying she wants contact to progress, and the cafcass officer believes this.. however, I know full well that if it’s left down to “the children” (knowing that it really means the ex) to decide when they want to increase time, this just will not happen because mother wont encourage it..
Any suggestions on what could go into the next PS? We have been asked to write a statement regarding the s7 also.
Cheers
J

 

[Ash]

I've removed references from both yours and Peanut's posts, to the names of any Cafcass officers!

When's the date the PS has to be in by?

 

[John]

Sorry Ash, didn’t realise..
21st June they have to be submitted by.

 

[Ash]

No problem Ok so you have a couple of weeks to work on a good one. I would start drafting something you want to say - pick out any points in the Section 7 you want to comment on, make suggestions about or agree with, but also use the Position statement to put forward your own view and proposals of what would work and what should happen next (keeping it child focused). It can take a few drafts to get it just right and easy to read.

With a position statement, when writing, it helps to think of it as speaking directly to the Judge and not quite so formal as a type of general essay type thing. They are human and will respond to sound arguments.

There's a sample position statement in legal resources (which I'll link below). It's on a different topic, but you'll get the idea of tone and layout.

Sample Position Statement

Attached is a sample position statement. Click on the "Download" link top right. Note this is NOT a full statement for a final hearing - that is more formal, about 8 pages long and refers to exhibits and evidence. This is a "Position...

www.dadswithkids.co.uk

 

[Roblox]

Looking back to prior posts your kids are 8,9 and 11?

The younger two really shouldn't be getting to decide. The older one is on the threshold of deciding whether they want to come.

I would definitely get a barrister as it shows you are serious about getting this sorted. Advise what you want and push it as far as you can. Your barrister if you use a service like barristers direct would be able to help with a position statement.

Ultimately its a game unless there are genuine reasons why they don't want to come. My section 7 had similar contradictions. The amount of time isn't great obviously but I think it could be worse (yes it's a low bar).

Not that it matters but did you meet this new partner after your separation.

 

[blindex]

This is typical Cafcass modus operandi. I've seen this so many times in my case and in others that are published as a matter of public interest. It is like they are writing two reports. One for mom and the other for dad, but ultimately caving in to mom because they want to protect the children from conflict. To them that means = "mom doesn't like dad having time with the children, therefore reduce time with dad to reduce conflict".

Cafcass advises but the judge decides.

A good barrister if you could afford one will be able to argue your case and convince the judge to give you more time.

Where it gets messy is that in order to prove that the mother is actively trying to destroy the children's relationship with you, you'll need an expert evaluation and these don't come cheap and will drag your case for months.

The issue as well as that when Cafcass say that the "increase contact should be guided by the Children's wishes and feeling" you are actually in limbo.

After you leave court you are on your bike, there is no one to help you establishing their wishes and feeling other than you and your ex. It just a recipe for conflict and disaster.

 

[Ash]

But after court you have an order and the obligation is on the parents to comply with it, or its contempt of court - technically. And that does give leverage. The most important thing is that the final order is well worded with no loopholes. It doesn't matter what the childrens "expressed" wishes are then - what matters is the court decicded what was in their best interests and that's why it's court ordered. So it's important to keep the order in tact and be careful about agreeing to any adjustments and keep everything in writing.

A lot of cases do settle down once there's an order and the ex realises she didn't get her way and just gives up and follows it. Some will continue to try and cause trouble. Which can mean a return to court. It depends on the ex!

 

[Ash]

The older one is on the threshold of deciding whether they want to come.

Good points Roblox but I don't agree they ever get to decide whether they want to come. 12 is seen as the age of Gillick competency - ie when their wishes are taken seriously. But those are only "ascertainable" wishes, not expressed wishes and that is a point that can be raised if it's clear the children have been coached. Usually that's a point for the final hearing. It doesn't mean the child can choose whether to come or not because the court doesn't always follow their wishes - they make orders based on the best interests of the child and have to weigh that up with their wishes.

It is an age though, when some Mothers decide to play the "he doesn't want to come" card but that depends on history and circumstances and it can be argued - why would a child who has been coming happily for years suddenly not want to come.

Cafcass will side with the Mother. But Judges can see through that kind of thing. There have been orders made for 13 and even 14 year olds where the court has told the Mother it is her responsibility to make sure the order is followed and if she can't do that it's bad parenting.

There are also wishy washy Judges who say - they're a teenager, you can't force them. What's important to show is that the child has no real voice under the circumstances. It can mean having to have the Cafcass report undermined as flawed at a final hearing.

You want to avoid any recital or clause that says - the children can decide. There is case law to argue against that and that is that it is too much pressure and burden for children to have that decision and if parents can't agree, the court decides what's best for them. Both parents are then expected to explain to the kids (without mentioning court!) that someone who deals with these things has decided that is what is best for them. And kids dont' object to that. It's ex's who manipulate the situation and encourage them to take sides.

Legally they can't choose for themselves until they are 16.

 

[Ash]

In some cases even if it's decided those really are the child's wishes, the court decides it's not in their interests or the relationships will flounder. But that's why a barrister is needed in these cases, to push these points of law to a Judge.

It's a battle. Cafcass seem to be getting worse with this child led view. One thing that is good, and cheaper than psychologists reports, if you're not happy with a S7 is to ask for an Independent Social Worker report. ISW. They are trained in parental alienation and other kinds of child coercion and would write a much better report and say what's going on. But again that causes delays.

 

[John]

Thanks for all your replies, gives me some good things to think about..
I have to get a statement in response to the S7 in by Friday at 4pm.
What kind of things do I need to put into that statement?
Do I put in all the bits I disagree with and why, and put the bits in I disagree with and why?
Do I put the bits I wish to be challenged?
I feel a bit lost atm and don’t know how to go forward with this.
Cheers
J

 

[Ash]

Have a look at the sample position statement I linked above.

 

[Ash]

No problem Ok so you have a couple of weeks to work on a good one. I would start drafting something you want to say - pick out any points in the Section 7 you want to comment on, make suggestions about or agree with, but also use the Position statement to put forward your own view and proposals of what would work and what should happen next (keeping it child focused). It can take a few drafts to get it just right and easy to read.

With a position statement, when writing, it helps to think of it as speaking directly to the Judge and not quite so formal as a type of general essay type thing. They are human and will respond to sound arguments.

There's a sample position statement in legal resources (which I'll link below). It's on a different topic, but you'll get the idea of tone and layout.

Sample Position Statement

Attached is a sample position statement. Click on the "Download" link top right. Note this is NOT a full statement for a final hearing - that is more formal, about 8 pages long and refers to exhibits and evidence. This is a "Position...

www.dadswithkids.co.uk

This post refers to how to start. If you get a first draft done, I'd be happy to advise.

 

[John]

Is that the same as a statement in response to the s7? Or would the position statement be seperate?

 

[blindex]

Is that the same as a statement in response to the s7? Or would the position statement be seperate?

So you need to refer to the previous order and what was requested by the judge. In my case, the judge ordered that there was going to be a DRA hearing for the parties to comment the outcomes of the section 7 report and submit a statement of 5 pages maximum with the parties proposed future arrangements.

The way to respond to the Cafcass section 7:

• There are in essence two parts, Cafcass assessment and Cafcass Recommendations:
• In your case you need to draw the judge's attention to the Cafcass assessment that the children's response was heavily coaxed
• Hence the recommendations are flawed and not truly representative of the wishes of the children
• So it is all about working backwards from the recommendation to the assessment. To use a crass example, Cafcass recommends you take sleeping tablets having done an x-ray of your foot.

So you should ask for greater gradual contact, suggest that you will take a parenting programme such as 3P or even recommend to have a Family Support Officer though some people have mixed experiences with that

 

[Ash]

As Blindex says, it depends what it says in the order. Does it ask for a statement AND a position statement? Or just a position statement with responses to the Section 7?

 

[John]

Spoke with a solicitor today, a one off type thing. £90 for an hour. They recommend I accept cafcass recommendations.. Not sure how I feel after that. A bit taken back I think as I feel I’m just rolling over and giving up.

 

[Ash]

Hi. I don't think that sounds like the best legal advice, and your order asked for feedback on S7 not acceptance of it, so I've messaged you. It's difficult to know without seeing it, but the order asks for your comments on it and that doesn't just mean rolling over and accepting everything, but saying which bits you agree with, and raising points that may have been overlooked or putting forward proposals. Or asking the court to consider xyz about an aspect of the S7 report. It's not as black and white as just accepting the whole thing.

Another guy on here had an S7 that recommended supervised only a few hours a fortnight. His barrister at the hearing easily persuaded the Judge that was not on, for various reasons, when the S7 had not considered xyz, and he got more time and unsupervised (interim time).