Potential childcare split realistic?

[Nujra Rof]

Hello all,

So I’ve got first mediation coming up and really want to achieve 50-50 minimum. The other half is not keen at all and wants to be the main parent, and is moving all her ducks to make it look like she should be.

Ultimately from September both kids will be in school 5 days a week and so I’m going to base a proposal round that.

What do you guys think of this or is there something else you suggest?

My wife works part time - three days she does are Wednesday/thursday/friday. Now I appreciate she works from home but she has to be logged on to her computer actually working, it’s not flexible (like my work which I can decide the hours). So I wanted to suggest:

- Tuesday evening I pick them up from school and keep the kids till I drop them off Friday morning to school (3 nights) so her work isn’t affected.

- she is Sunday and Monday (2 nights), but this ensures she has a weekend day with the kids every week as she she was keen on this.

- Friday/Saturday we alternate every other week. So one week me and one week her.

So ro summarise one week she will have them 4 nights and me 3 nights, but following week I’ll have them 5 nights and her 2 nights - but she always has a weekend day so can spend it with the kids fully.

Let me know how realistic and fair this is?

Thank you in advance

 

[Ash]

A court probably wouldn't order this for 50/50 - it would have to be by agreement with ex. The main reason for that is they like a stable routine for the kids. So the usual would be say Monday through to Wednesday with ex, then you pick them up from school and have them through to Friday. That would cover most of her three working days.

Then as you'd be having every other week-end, the following week would be the same two midweek nights but with the week-end tacked on, making 5 nights.

Eg

Week 1: Monday and Tuesday with you (until Wednesday school drop off), Wednesday and Thursday with her (until Friday school drop off)
Week 2: Friday through to Wednesday school drop off with you, Wednesday through to Monday school drop off with her.

While I can see your logic about her working hours, I think it will royally piss her off to think you're trying to think for her and decide she isn't capable of childcare on her work days. Also parents jobs and working hours can change and you'd both be expected to make provision on your days. Eg if you were working till 6pm on one of your nights, you could leave the kids in after school club or ask a grandparent to collect them until you got home. Both parents are within their rights to do that on their court ordered days as you'd basically be two separate families after separation, with the kids moving between you.

So I think I would propose something like the above. If SHE says - I can't do 3 nights one week then you could maybe suggest you have more nights one week and less the next. But if her idea is that she is the sole parent with care, she clearly isn't concerned about her working hours and I doubt she'd agree to your proposal - it could just wind her up.

As part of mediation, you want to keep a calm, low key attitude, and also say child focused things rather than it sounding like what she wants and what you want. So things like - I think the children will need stability after separation and to know they will see both parents regularly and have significant quality time with both. I think sharing the care equally is the best option for the children and allows both parents to work as well.

 

[Nujra Rof]

Thanks Ash. I will definitely stay calm as she has hinted already she will be attending with a proposal of share/time. I know it will be geared in her favour and not 50-50 split, if that’s the case what’s the best way to reject and refuse it?
As mediator said previous that 50-50 isn’t always best for children and parents insist on it for there own needs and it’s more about the kids so am nervous going into this.

What about this as a schedule:
Sunday/Monday evening her
Tuesday/Wednesday evening me
Friday and Saturday alternate

 

[Nujra Rof]

I would really prefer the Thursday evening with me too just for consistency for the kids plus I’m guaranteeing her a weekend day every week on a Sunday but doubt she will go for it given that the week she doesn’t have the majority of the time she will drop them school Tuesday morning then not see them till Sunday which I get is a long time

 

[Ash]

It sounds like you shouldn't be seeing that same mediator if they have that attitude to 50/50. The mediator sounds biased towards Mothers in my opinion. Can you cancel and get a different one? Unfortunately there are people who believe the children are better with one main home with the Mother, and less time with Dad. I just have a feeling you may feel ganged up on by both the mediator and your ex.

An alternative is to get a solicitor to write to your ex with a proposal and seek her agreement for a consent order.

The usual patterns for 50/50 are either 2-2-5-5 (the one I mentioned above). OR 2-2-3-2-2-3. Which is similar but you alternate midweek nights (Mon Tues with you one week and wed thurs the next week) and just have a 3 night week-end each.

The reason being - the amount of changeovers for the children - you want to minimise the amount they go back and forth so single nights back and forth wouldn't be good. Every two nights might be ok as long as you have a 3 night week-end.

Split week-ends aren't usually approved of by the courts. If your ex agreed to split week-ends then it's possible but it wouldn't last long and you'd end up back in court. As kids get older, they need a full week-end in one place.

The way the courts look at is is - week-ends and holidays are "quality time" and those are usually split 50/50 anyway - eg every other week-end and half the holidays.

Midweek term-time nights are "care time" and can be split equally or unequally. If it's equally it's a full 50/50 order. If it's unequally it could still be "lives with both parents" but more likely to be lives with mother, spends time with Father.

I'm concerned about your mediator's attitude though.

 

[Nujra Rof]

It sounds like you shouldn't be seeing that same mediator if they have that attitude to 50/50. The mediator sounds biased towards Mothers in my opinion. Can you cancel and get a different one? Unfortunately there are people who believe the children are better with one main home with the Mother, and less time with Dad. I just have a feeling you may feel ganged up on by both the mediator and your ex.

An alternative is to get a solicitor to write to your ex with a proposal and seek her agreement for a consent order.

The usual patterns for 50/50 are either 2-2-5-5 (the one I mentioned above). OR 2-2-3-2-2-3. Which is similar but you alternate midweek nights (Mon Tues with you one week and wed thurs the next week) and just have a 3 night week-end each.

The reason being - the amount of changeovers for the children - you want to minimise the amount they go back and forth so single nights back and forth wouldn't be good. Every two nights might be ok as long as you have a 3 night week-end.

Split week-ends aren't usually approved of by the courts. If your ex agreed to split week-ends then it's possible but it wouldn't last long and you'd end up back in court. As kids get older, they need a full week-end in one place.

The way the courts look at is is - week-ends and holidays are "quality time" and those are usually split 50/50 anyway - eg every other week-end and half the holidays.

Midweek term-time nights are "care time" and can be split equally or unequally. If it's equally it's a full 50/50 order. If it's unequally it could still be "lives with both parents" but more likely to be lives with mother, spends time with Father.

I'm concerned about your mediator's attitude though.

I am concerned about the mediators attitude too, mainly due to that one comment. Equally having spoken to some super intelligent barristers and some helpful solicitors (some just looking to get a payday but not painting all by one brush) she didn’t seem on the same level at all.

Where it isn’t legally binding and nothing from mediation you can bring up in court if you don’t reach an agreement, what are the biggest risks other than it goes badly as I’m ganged up on?

 

[Ash]

That's true. A mediator is supposed to be impartial though, and some aren't - I know I found it stressful with one mediator lol!

 

[Nujra Rof]

That's true. A mediator is supposed to be impartial though, and some aren't - I know I found it stressful with one mediator lol!

What did you find stressful?

 

[Ash]

I don't know - a difficult mediator trying to bulldoze me.

 

[Nujra Rof]

I don't know - a difficult mediator trying to bulldoze me.

Can’t imagine you’d be the type to get bulldozed - very smart, calm and collective mate

 

[Ash]

It was a very stressful time altogether. I'm better on paper than dealing with people face to face lol. I did hold my own but it was stressful. After that I found a different mediator. Seen three altogether and didn't think much of any of them but a solicitor mediator was better than the other type. There are two types - those with a background in law and those with a background in social work.

 

[Nujra Rof]

It was a very stressful time altogether. I'm better on paper than dealing with people face to face lol. I did hold my own but it was stressful. After that I found a different mediator. Seen three altogether and didn't think much of any of them but a solicitor mediator was better than the other type. There are two types - those with a background in law and those with a background in social work.

Fair - I mean a lot of this entire process I find is about mental strength, be on paper and face to face. Sometimes it’s about holding your own and believing the process (even if it’s drawn out through the courts) will lead to a positive results for a good caring and loving dad whose heart is in the right place

 

[Nujra Rof]

But yes this process could break any man and can hardly blame them to be honest!

Initially the stress from the threats my wife would throw off lead me to have stress related health conditions, thankfully as it’s become more about the process and getting through each day at a time it’s normalised a bit

 

[Ash]

The era when I first became a parent, Dads had to prove they were safe parents to get a miserable amount of Contact and wouldn;t necessarily get an order at all. Mothers were automatically the resident parent. So it was just "contact" for Dads. Shared residence orders were very rare and only certain parts of the Uk really. Mothers also automatically got legal aid for court cases and there was the CSA (rather than current CMS) which was really bad. I was never married to or lived with my child's Mother, we co parented from birth - and I had to just go along with her way to see my son at all as I knew what the courts were like then and he was under 2. I think it wasn't good for my self esteem being pushed around and accepting it. She regularly threatened to stop me seeing him unless I did xyz and often did stop me seeing him. Things she wanted me to do included - giving her lifts everywhere, taking her shopping - driving her to the airport and back once a month so she could fly off and see her boyfriend .....

I just did it all to keep things smooth for my son. Although it wasn't ideal as she'd chop and change arrangements all the time and he never knew what was what.

Had loads of hassle when I then had a new partner as well. In 2012 - 14 things changed. After a family justice review and Child Arrangements orders came in. Mothers no longer had automatic residency. The terms residence and contact were scrapped in favour of one Child Arrangements order and equal PR. Nobody got legal aid - except in cases of abuse - which is why the allegations of abuse went up 300%!

I managed to avoid court until my son was 8 because I usually managed to talk her round once she'd calmed down and she had a new husband and was keen to impress him so things went smoothly for about 3 years. He had two boys and she wanted all the kids away and there at the same time, so I then got a decent regular schedule for a few years.

But she then fell out with him and his kids! Which is typical of my ex - horrible temper and falls out with everyone. Some worrying times over my son as he became her next scapegoat. But she got back with her H (he lost his kids over it!).

She "went nuclear" when her younger son with her H was about to start school - she simply wanted to move on and I wasn't useful any more. So that's when she made allegations and I had to go to court. First order was crap because I was green and within a year I had to go back to court for a lives with both parents order. Which I got but not 50/50 because they keep to historic schedules and my historic schedule had been 4 nights a fortnight.

But she was full of hatred after I went to court and made my life hell for years - and my son's! She lost every hearing and got mroe and more full of hate. The reason she lost every case was because she did such horrible things! Hard to explain really but I wasn't strong at that time as I got long emails full of hate daily. That settled down after the lives with both parents order. But before that she was poisoning my son against me. Or trying to - it didn't work but it did mess with his head. Evil woman.

He lives with me now. She stopped following orders during the pandemic and he was a teenager by then. But at 15 he jumped ship and moved in with me. At which point she sent him abusive messages and cut him off. He hasn't seen her since. Not ideal but - I've left it up to him. He was quite traumatised by the way she cut him off and sent him abusive messages but - she has always been like that. He's doing ok now though.

 

[Nujra Rof]

The era when I first became a parent, Dads had to prove they were safe parents to get a miserable amount of Contact and wouldn;t necessarily get an order at all. Mothers were automatically the resident parent. So it was just "contact" for Dads. Shared residence orders were very rare and only certain parts of the Uk really. Mothers also automatically got legal aid for court cases and there was the CSA (rather than current CMS) which was really bad. I was never married to or lived with my child's Mother, we co parented from birth - and I had to just go along with her way to see my son at all as I knew what the courts were like then and he was under 2. I think it wasn't good for my self esteem being pushed around and accepting it. She regularly threatened to stop me seeing him unless I did xyz and often did stop me seeing him. Things she wanted me to do included - giving her lifts everywhere, taking her shopping - driving her to the airport and back once a month so she could fly off and see her boyfriend .....

I just did it all to keep things smooth for my son. Although it wasn't ideal as she'd chop and change arrangements all the time and he never knew what was what.

Had loads of hassle when I then had a new partner as well. In 2012 - 14 things changed. After a family justice review and Child Arrangements orders came in. Mothers no longer had automatic residency. The terms residence and contact were scrapped in favour of one Child Arrangements order and equal PR. Nobody got legal aid - except in cases of abuse - which is why the allegations of abuse went up 300%!

I managed to avoid court until my son was 8 because I usually managed to talk her round once she'd calmed down and she had a new husband and was keen to impress him so things went smoothly for about 3 years. He had two boys and she wanted all the kids away and there at the same time, so I then got a decent regular schedule for a few years.

But she then fell out with him and his kids! Which is typical of my ex - horrible temper and falls out with everyone. Some worrying times over my son as he became her next scapegoat. But she got back with her H (he lost his kids over it!).

She "went nuclear" when her younger son with her H was about to start school - she simply wanted to move on and I wasn't useful any more. So that's when she made allegations and I had to go to court. First order was crap because I was green and within a year I had to go back to court for a lives with both parents order. Which I got but not 50/50 because they keep to historic schedules and my historic schedule had been 4 nights a fortnight.

But she was full of hatred after I went to court and made my life hell for years - and my son's! She lost every hearing and got mroe and more full of hate. The reason she lost every case was because she did such horrible things! Hard to explain really but I wasn't strong at that time as I got long emails full of hate daily. That settled down after the lives with both parents order. But before that she was poisoning my son against me. Or trying to - it didn't work but it did mess with his head. Evil woman.

He lives with me now. She stopped following orders during the pandemic and he was a teenager by then. But at 15 he jumped ship and moved in with me. At which point she sent him abusive messages and cut him off. He hasn't seen her since. Not ideal but - I've left it up to him. He was quite traumatised by the way she cut him off and sent him abusive messages but - she has always been like that. He's doing ok now though.

WOW! I dont even know where to begin mate…actually I do, thank you for sharing, and secondly so sorry to hear the ordeal you endured, even more so your son! You fought for the little time you got with him and when the shoe was somewhat on the other foot she just gave up and cut him out of her life like that. Makes you question why she did all that, as it wasn’t out of selfless love for her son, was she really just that petulant, vindictive and just horrible that it was all to one up on you and be in “control” and make you do things for her. I mean the real victim in all this is your son, but I’m so pleased he’s with you now mate, shows he appreciated everything you did for him and all those trips to shopping or journeys to the airport for someone horrible were justified with a brilliant outcome - and Covid was a bad time for so many people but I hope you got to make up for some lost time with your son in lockdown.

He has an amazing dad - and if anyone can make sure his head is unmessed so to speak, it’s you mate! You got this!