Possible Coaching Happening

[DadLad]

Hi All,

Hoping for some advice on this..

I have a final hearing coming up in a few weeks, but recently I have noticed a few things change, especially the behaviour of our child who is 3.

We had the ICFA intervention solely for reintroduction and this has been "a success" as they have stated and I have a glowing report for court.

Cafcass have also submitted a glowing report which is in my favour.

But recently I have noticed some out of character behaviours from our child, we have had video calls midweek and visits on a weekend.

During the first video calls our child would laugh and talk for over an hour, but recently it's like our child doesn't know me, and is often encouraged by the ex to end the call.

The ex has sent messages preempting this behaviour and making excuses rather than encouragement.

My ex has also claimed our child is poorly and had to leave nursery so might no visit me this weekend. But according to the nursery our child was there all day and has been fine.

Something just doesn't sit right, the ex has a history of alienating behaviours and I believe she is coaching our child against me.

 

[Peanut 21]

It's very difficult to prove unless you have concrete evidence.
You may have to wait for something obvious to happen.

 

[DadLad]

What constitutes as concrete evidence for alienation?

 

[Peanut 21]

What constitutes as concrete evidence for alienation?

That's the million dollar question.
It's happened to my partners 2 kids. Proving their rejection of dad is not the fault of him and actually the influence of their mother has been extremely difficult.

You need a pattern of behaviour over a decent amount of time for a start. Even then you need someone to believe you.

Breaching a court order without a good reason, more than 3 times is a a pattern. Although the mother tends to make up false allegations as a reason.

Withholding school and medical info is an alienating behaviour.

But if you're dealing with a manipulator you're always on the back foot.

 

[DadLad]

That's the million dollar question.
It's happened to my partners 2 kids. Proving their rejection of dad is not the fault of him and actually the influence of their mother has been extremely difficult.

You need a pattern of behaviour over a decent amount of time for a start. Even then you need someone to believe you.

Breaching a court order without a good reason, more than 3 times is a a pattern. Although the mother tends to make up false allegations as a reason.

Withholding school and medical info is an alienating behaviour.

But if you're dealing with a manipulator you're always on the back foot.

The ex has made decisions regarding an operation and school choice without even asking me. I've been excluded from having an input.

 

[NewcastleBrownAle]

one of the issues is that parental alienation is mainly perpetrated by women, the same women who also make false allegations of domestic abuse, and women's pressure groups have waded into the argument, claiming that PA is simply DA and any attempt to have a reasonable discussion about it ends up with men being shouted down and excluded. New court guidance , guidance essentially written by women'd domestic violence charities basically state that there is no such thing as parental alienation and it's simply an attempt to shift blame.

So the court doesnt want to hear that allegations are false and that children are being manipulated, and even if they did, they are even less willing to do anything about it.

 

[DadLad]

Cafcass and ICFA have a section in their reports, it's still recognised in family court.

 

[NewcastleBrownAle]

Cafcass and ICFA have a section in their reports, it's still recognised in family court.

new guidance was issues a few weeks ago, I did put the link in another thread, but essentially it is seen as rare and usually the result of domestic abuse.

 

[Peanut 21]

The catch 22 with PA allegations is that in some court guidance they say things like both parents are contributing to the alienation. They don't see mothers as the sole problem in the situation with a dad jumping through hoops and being reasonable.
Sometimes they say the target parent has a rigid parenting style, they react badly to the rejection of their children and get angry. Of course this can happen, in which case the alienator uses it as evidence to prove the target parent has issues. Or if the target parent remains calm they can then allege it can't be alienation because the target parent isn't exhibiting behaviour from the checklist.
The below explains what I mean.

Behaviour & Warning Signs Exhibited by Child, Alienating Parent and Rejected Parent – CCMF

menandfamilies.org

 

[Kev19]

Is not promoting the children and withholding significant information of the children a form of alienation?
The Dad is marginalised, not involved in decision making resulting in the children feeling he does not care for their wellbeing.

 

[Peanut 21]

Is not promoting the children and withholding significant information of the children a form of alienation?
The Dad is marginalised, not involved in decision making resulting in the children feeling he does not care for their wellbeing.

Yes it is.
But proving it is difficult.
Obviously all my posts are just my personal opinion and not fact, but
I feel that the courts and social services are content the child/ren are fine as long as they are going to school, being fed and dressed well.
They say it's important that children have a relationship with both parents but that seems to come across secondary to the points I make in the last sentence.

 

[Ash]

This is very common at this time - because you have a final hearing coming up. Your ex will be struggling with the idea that you might get a decent order. All I can say is - hopefully this will settle down once the final hearing is over. Meanwhile, keep records of everything that happens. Have you submitted your final statement yet?

You can't really prove the ex is "alienating" as such but she is not promoting the relationship and that can be one of your arguments at the final hearing.

 

[DadLad]

This is very common at this time - because you have a final hearing coming up. Your ex will be struggling with the idea that you might get a decent order. All I can say is - hopefully this will settle down once the final hearing is over. Meanwhile, keep records of everything that happens. Have you submitted your final statement yet?

You can't really prove the ex is "alienating" as such but she is not promoting the relationship and that can be one of your arguments at the final hearing.

Final statements to be submitted on Wednesday.