Occupation orders, Civil court, family courts, injunctions; the nightmare begins

[BrassTacks]

Not necessarily. BrassTacks - yes a consent order is binding - but you said it was only agreed 98% so did the court make a decision about the remaining 2%? They wouldn't normally at a first hearing. Everything needs to be agreed for a consent order to be made following that hearing. Any order that comes out now will be directions basically - as to what happens next. So yes orders are binding - but agreements aren't - and if you didn't agree everything 100% then that sounds like no agreement for an actual consent order.

The judges / magistrates stated that they would document what was agreed / consented.
It’s tied in with an order preventing us from sharing adult information with the child… under risk of prison if we don’t abide to it (also by consent)
Will have to wait and see what the order states….

 

[Ash]

Ok - so at this recent hearing they said you either need to withdraw the application or they would vacate the process? Did they leave that with you to decide? If so, and you get a direct access barrister, you could do a C2 application to get it started up again, but you need to propose a plan for moving out in that application - ie a plan to live somewhere within say 6 months and for the child arrangements to start from then. And ask for a district Judge.

What concerns me is if you think there is a consent order?

 

[Ash]

Posted at the same time. Good they documented what was agreed because that can be used to prove what she was agreeing to in future. But you don't really want this case closed. You want it kick starting.

 

[BrassTacks]

Ok - so at this recent hearing they said you either need to withdraw the application or they would vacate the process? Did they leave that with you to decide? If so, and you get a direct access barrister, you could do a C2 application to get it started up again, but you need to propose a plan for moving out in that application - ie a plan to live somewhere within say 6 months and for the child arrangements to start from then. And ask for a district Judge.

What concerns me is if you think there is a consent order?

There was a plan and agreement we both wanted me to move out… but perhaps the court advisor wasn’t clear about that: she led that part of the recommendations saying it was vacate or withdraw

 

[BrassTacks]

So today the injunction hearing to stop my ex progressing the sale of the house :-/
Without a home, it’s hard to have short term contact secured, :-(

 

[Peanut 21]

From a female pov, hormones can turn us women into monsters, but, that's no excuse to get violent.
There must be something else going on. Was she ever excessively moody pre-menopause? Or was it from when the relationship went south?

 

[BrassTacks]

Thanks for sharing that.
Sadly red-rage as I mentioned before was something we all knew to avoid…. and the last year has been challenging with hormone fluctuations.
Ex is a passionate, life of the party socialite with ups and downs

What’s extraordinary is the drive to destroy and affect the children… things that have taken years to build. Destroyed in weeks :-/
What makes a person take 98% wonderful positive contributions and destroy at the end of a relationship is a mystery

 

[Peanut 21]

Thanks for sharing that.
Sadly red-rage as I mentioned before was something we all knew to avoid…. and the last year has been challenging with hormone fluctuations.
Ex is a passionate, life of the party socialite with ups and downs

What’s extraordinary is the drive to destroy and affect the children… things that have taken years to build. Destroyed in weeks :-/
What makes a person take 98% wonderful positive contributions and destroy at the end of a relationship is a mystery

It sounds like she's another one with a personality disorder.
To put your own needs before your childrens shows narcissistic tendencies.

 

[Resolute]

Please can you say more about the "injunction" related to selling the house. Is this part of a ToLATA claim?

 

[BrassTacks]

Please can you say more about the "injunction" related to selling the house. Is this part of a ToLATA claim?

It’s pre Tolata
In it I have to say well try resolve things- if not I have to commit to make a Tolata application

 

[Resolute]

It’s pre Tolata
In it I have to say well try resolve things- if not I have to commit to make a Tolata application

Is it 15 minutes? Have you submitted basis and particulars?

EDIT
Have you explored Schedule 1 of the Children Act?

 

[BrassTacks]

It sounds like she's another one with a personality disorder.
To put your own needs before your childrens shows narcissistic tendencies.

lol: I think that’s quite extreme.
She’s Great when she’s getting her way and in the££££ but not when we’re separating

It’s about using whatever little one has to get the upper hand: in this case I guess it’s the children.
She knows I want contact. So she uses that against me to get what she wants.
Very sad

Men have no hope.
Even if judges see through it

We started with no allegations
Then at the first hearing allegations of verbal abuse
Then at the next hearing last week allegations of harm towards the older boy and threats to contact social services
Then today in a totally only property related civil hearing a non-particularised allegation of “physical abuse”

I can see what is next

It’s the only way to get me out the house and free legal support.

Men have few choices:
1. fight it out over years and years with negative impact on the children and lifelong acrimony with the ex and Solicitrs and barristers benefiting from the lions share (sorry - can’t help but make a dig)
2. Walk away and have children who grow up without their father
3. Acquiesce and risk continued emotional and financial abuse

The challenge is if one party plays by the rules and is kind and supportive and the ex is unreasonable and unpredictable…. The ex has an advantage and wins every time
I just don’t see a way out without devastating proceedings going on forever

 

[Peanut 21]

lol: I think that’s quite extreme.
She’s Great when she’s getting her way and in the££££ but not when we’re separating

It’s about using whatever little one has to get the upper hand: in this case I guess it’s the children.
She knows I want contact. So she uses that against me to get what she wants.
Very sad

Men have no hope.
Even if judges see through it

We started with no allegations
Then at the first hearing allegations of verbal abuse
Then at the next hearing last week allegations of harm towards the older boy and threats to contact social services
Then today in a totally only property related civil hearing a non-particularised allegation of “physical abuse”

I can see what is next

It’s the only way to get me out the house and free legal support.

Men have few choices:
1. fight it out over years and years with negative impact on the children and lifelong acrimony with the ex and Solicitrs and barristers benefiting from the lions share (sorry - can’t help but make a dig)
2. Walk away and have children who grow up without their father
3. Acquiesce and risk continued emotional and financial abuse

The challenge is if one party plays by the rules and is kind and supportive and the ex is unreasonable and unpredictable…. The ex has an advantage and wins every time
I just don’t see a way out without devastating proceedings going on forever

I hear you.
My partner 5 years in. No progress. He's considered walking a few times but keeps fighting.

BTW, personality disorder might sound extreme. But her behaviour sounds extreme.

 

[Ash]

lol: I think that’s quite extreme.
She’s Great when she’s getting her way and in the££££ but not when we’re separating

It’s about using whatever little one has to get the upper hand: in this case I guess it’s the children.
She knows I want contact. So she uses that against me to get what she wants.
Very sad

Men have no hope.
Even if judges see through it

We started with no allegations
Then at the first hearing allegations of verbal abuse
Then at the next hearing last week allegations of harm towards the older boy and threats to contact social services
Then today in a totally only property related civil hearing a non-particularised allegation of “physical abuse”

I can see what is next

It’s the only way to get me out the house and free legal support.

Men have few choices:
1. fight it out over years and years with negative impact on the children and lifelong acrimony with the ex and Solicitrs and barristers benefiting from the lions share (sorry - can’t help but make a dig)
2. Walk away and have children who grow up without their father
3. Acquiesce and risk continued emotional and financial abuse

The challenge is if one party plays by the rules and is kind and supportive and the ex is unreasonable and unpredictable…. The ex has an advantage and wins every time
I just don’t see a way out without devastating proceedings going on forever

That sounds a bit much after you've just been having mediation. I'm sorry to hear she has started making allegations. Yes it is definitely a battle over money, when separating, and sadly some ex's do use the kids as leverage.

However, you have already won an occupation order haven't you? It does sound like you need some representation at hearings - someone to knock these things on the head and fight your corner. What was the outcome of today's hearing?

 

[BrassTacks]

Not good
She’s an offer she’s accepted 2 / 52 ago
Judge wants more evidence so kicked it down the road by which time property will he likely sold

 

[Ash]

If the Judge wants more evidence, surely she isn't permitted to sell it yet?

 

[BrassTacks]

But the ex lied blatantly to the court AGAIN.
In writing (with an unsigned statement).

What can I do about this: this is repeated

Allowing people to get away with lying and being deceitful perpetuates that behavior.

 

[Ash]

It really sounds like you need some legal advice. You have a financial interest in that property, so she can't just sell it and pocket the money. Have you tried Citizens Advice? They can be quite helpful when couples are unmarried.

 

[BrassTacks]

If the Judge wants more evidence, surely she isn't permitted to sell it yet?

I just despair
Ex said it will take 6-8 weeks to sell
But the agent said it’s a cash buyer and will sell straight away as the buyer does not want to do searches

 

[Resolute]

The challenge is if one party plays by the rules and is kind and supportive and the ex is unreasonable and unpredictable…. The ex has an advantage and wins every time
I just don’t see a way out without devastating proceedings going on forever

If you are anything but reasonable it is likely to give her a quicker and easier win. They do not win every time. In many cases neither side wins. The proceedings can be over in 6-12 months and staying in the picture is a big victory for dads in your situation. Mine turned 5 a month after me and the ex split. She recently had her 8th birthday. If I had disappeared when she was 5, she would barely know who I am at this point.

My personal view is that the three years from 5 to 8 are enormously important.