Occupation orders, Civil court, family courts, injunctions; the nightmare begins

[Ash]

Not sure about getting an NMO on her - it might proliferate hostilities. It does sound like

a) you need a property lined up to move to and
b) you need a child arrangements order to commence the day you move out.

 

[BrassTacks]

That could be very tricky if both properties are in her name and you're not married.

Yes: that’s the albatross around my neck. I paid for one nearly exclusively and helped my ex buy the other one from her ex.

 

[BrassTacks]

Presumably you've contributed to one or other property financially so could have an interest in them - but it's not as straightforward as if you were married. On the plus side, as you're not married, you're not going to be taken to the cleaners for spousal etc. And no divorce to go through.

lol: thanks for the silver lining.

I’ve contributed more than 50% share … just so uncertain about possible outcomes.
Too many horror stories on these fora.
But I guess the facts are not always clear.. the judges seem to make decisions on all the facts we don’t see or hear…

 

[Ash]

The financial side will be totally separate to the Child Arrangements side. Yes they are intertwined in that you need a house to live in. But when it comes to child arrangements orders, they don't look at the financial side at all - just what is in the best interests of the children. This is good in many ways as you can separate out the different issues.

 

[Ash]

If you paid for one property almost exclusively, presumably the purchase documents will show that. Why were both properties put into her name only? Is there a mortgage on the one you paid for almost exclusively and what percentage did you pay?

 

[BrassTacks]

Hey @Robslob , welcome & sorry to hear about the challenges you've had to navigate.

You are clearly managing to understand the process relatively well, I know its a tricky balancing act to manage both that and yourself alongside.

What's the injunction referred to, is it for the house?

I'm not really sure on the law when it comes to unmarried couples but as @Ash mentioned, you must have some form of interest if you're paying a mortgage?

I know in married circumstances spouses also notify the mortgage companies that there is an interest due to ongoing Divorce/Family matters, maybe try that approach as well.

I'm currently coexisting as well albeit each case is different, the tightrope you have to walk is very fine.

Maybe record your time in the house, not for court but just in case from the perspective of the police.

If there has been threats or arguments then maybe you can apply for an NMO against her, it would force her to leave the property and then deal with that - if you're able to manage the kids on your own?

if she's not getting legal aid, it could give you an avenue to apply, dependent on your financial position and savings.

Not sure what the others think of such a strategy.....

Depending on where you are maybe a DAB from a different region plus travel costs could be a cheaper option?

Thanks - appreciate that
Challenge as the older boys is from her ex and she’s resident parent: no hope of getting her out
And a non mol is just going to raise the ante; but I fear she’ll do something first; and false allegations are a terrifying reality

 

[BrassTacks]

If you paid for one property almost exclusively, presumably the purchase documents will show that. Why were both properties put into her name only? Is there a mortgage on the one you paid for almost exclusively and what percentage did you pay?

Sadly I couldn’t get a mortgage at the time and the other house we bought off her ex so not the right time to put me on..

 

[BrassTacks]

Injunction is to stop her selling the house

 

[BrassTacks]

We met well after the split.. but before the divorce was legally finalised

 

[Ash]

Thanks - appreciate that
Challenge as the older boys is from her ex and she’s resident parent: no hope of getting her out
And a non mol is just going to raise the ante; but I fear she’ll do something first; and false allegations are a terrifying reality

And that is why you need a Child Arrangements order as a priority. Before she makes any (if she does). If you're mid hearings and she makes some now it's going to be obvious she just made them up.

So where are you at with the Child Arrangements process exactly?

You've had the Cafcass safeguarding letter. Have you had any hearings? I take it you haven't withdrawn the application yet as you mentioned possibly doing that.

 

[BrassTacks]

We had first hearing for child arrangements last week (orders to still arrive)
We’ve consented 98% of the mediation agreement bar the crucial 2%: the 50:50 co parenting. She wants 4.6 nights more per month. (So she can have child maintenance)
The tragedy is she doesn’t even look after the kids
I’ve had to compromise on everythjng to date otherwise we’d not get anywhere

I’ve seen how she’s dealt with her ex and see she wants to end it in the same way of having the upper hand and controlling contact

 

[BrassTacks]

Anyway; hope everyone had fun trick and treating

It must be awful for those denied the opportunity when they want to ..

 

[Ash]

That sounds positive. So a consent order hasn't actually been made, but most of the contents agreed bar the split of time? Presumably Cafcass and the court are expecting mediation to continue to agreement. Normally at this stage you'd be asking for matters to go to a final hearing if there's no agreement. Presumably the court hasn't ordered you to withdraw the application.

Until a consent order is sealed by the court, or the court makes an order at a final hearing, nothing is binding. So you need that Child Arrangements order. An order will be coming out after the recent hearing which will tell you what is to happen next (and presumably they already told you that at the recent hearing).

 

[Ash]

As for the older child. Before you move out, you can tell him/her that they can always see you whenever they want - that the door is always open. They will remember that and know they can see you when older if your ex won't permit it now.

 

[BrassTacks]

That’s very helpful to hear @Ash : thank you for that!
ESP the part about the order being isn’t binding

 

[MagicJ]

@Ash I understood that at FHDRA the court would usually have shared a view on where the judgement is likely to land if it went to the final hearing??
@BrassTacks did they do this and/or state they would send a date for the next hearing?

 

[Ash]

Not necessarily. BrassTacks - yes a consent order is binding - but you said it was only agreed 98% so did the court make a decision about the remaining 2%? They wouldn't normally at a first hearing. Everything needs to be agreed for a consent order to be made following that hearing. Any order that comes out now will be directions basically - as to what happens next. So yes orders are binding - but agreements aren't - and if you didn't agree everything 100% then that sounds like no agreement for an actual consent order.

 

[Ash]

So was she agreeing to 6 nights out of 14? That wouldn't be so bad as it would still then be "lives with both parents" - but yes Child Support would need to be paid.

 

[Ash]

The other thing is - if a consent order is reached at court, you don't want to rely on the court or the ex's lawyers to draw up the order. If you are the applicant then your lawyer (if you have one) draws up the order wording and makes sure there are no ambiguities, loopholes or other dirty tricks. If you don't have a lawyer then your ex's lawyer draws up the order and the wording is really important - to avoid it being a worthless piece of paper.

 

[BrassTacks]

@Ash I understood that at FHDRA the court would usually have shared a view on where the judgement is likely to land if it went to the final hearing??
@BrassTacks did they do this and/or state they would send a date for the next hearing?

No. Options were vacate or withdraw.