Occupation Order problems

[azerazer]

Hi
First time looking for help about this... any advice much appreciated because I'm feeling pretty broken right now!

I am trying to get out of a toxic relationship.

Ex is abusive in so many way, but makes out it I am the abuser. Only tells people of my reactions to her disturbing behaviour and constantly calling the police making false accusations. Police response is appalling. As a man, I have a different set of rules applied to me. The first couple times it is frustrating, but when it has happened 20 times, it really messes with your head.

My ex applied for an Occupation Order when I was in hospital. Application full of lies and it was granted without me having an opportunity to respond. Several months later, final hearing has taken place. They said they found no fault, but it is clear we cannot live together, so they kept the order in place.

She took all the money from the joint account, over £20k and left me having to take out a £15k loan to pay for work related to our business that was already committed to and that the £20k was supposed to cover. Other bills coming in regularly. I have no cash, no home, behind on payments and now demands for CMS payments. I can get Legal Aid, but can't afford the large contributions. She bought brand new car with our joint money and telling everyone she has no money and I'm not contributing anything for kids.

Two issues I would like advice on please:

1. I'm asking to see kids and she is ignoring requests. What is my best hope in sorting this when can't afford solicitors?

2. Occupation Order says I can collect belongings with agreement, but she is ignoring my requests. I see her dad has been selling off my stuff - police just said it's marital assets so they can't do anything. If I started selling her clothes (bought with marital money), I'm sure they would arrest me... one rule for me, one for her. How do I apply to court for help with arranging collection for my belongings? Is there a certain form? Court order says "personal belongings"... what items will qualify?

Thank you
Tony

 

[Ash]

The Police can do something - I would try them again. Say that these are still your personal possessions in a home that you own, despite separation. Be careful though - I'm aware of someone who got arrested for breaking and entering for going back to get his stuff. You have a court order - maybe ask the Police to accompany you saying you need protection if going there to collect your stuff and to avoid allegations. No idea how busy the police are these days though - things might have changed.

I'd suggest going to citizens advice bureau re this too - they have a legal team and should be able to help you sort out retrieving things.

Re the kids - you'll need to apply for a Child Arrangements order. Don't delay, it can take time. Before you can do that you're supposed to try mediation with your ex. The only legal requirement though is to have attended a MIAM (first mediation appointment on your own to get info and explain the situation). Your ex will probably decline to attend the next session anyway, then you get signed off and can apply to court.

If she's making allegations, expect to only be able to see the kids in a contact centre initially, until Cafcass have checked things out. Once they find there are no welfare issues you'll get your order.

You can represent yourself and get help on here. We can help with application wording, position statements etc. With good position statements you don't need to say a lot at hearings.

The court fee is £232 but if you're on benefits or a low income you could get that waived - it's usually only if you're on benefits though.

The 20k she spent - was it in a business account or a personal account? And is the business a partnership or limited company?

Have you heard from CMS about child maintenance payments? If not, contact them yourself and ask them to make an assessment - it looks better if you do it than if your ex contacts them and makes wild claims. The tricky thing is it will go on your tax return when they assess your income so it might be based on last year's earnings. You'll need to explain your current financial situation to them.

 

[azerazer]

Ash, thank you for the reply!
The £20k was in a joint personal account. There was no official business structure. Just the two of us working together on properties.

Right ok, I'll apply for the Child Arrangement order and contact citizens advice.

Yes, I have already had been told by the CMS I need to pay her monthly. I disputed the information and it's still being reviewed 2 months later.

Cheers for your help.

 

[Ash]

Check out the resources above before submitting the C100. My view is that the initial wording on that application is important, to get off to a good start. I would recommend you use the paper form. Even though the online application is easier. Don't mention anything about CM in it - Child Arrangements is technically a completely separate thing and the family court doesn't deal with that.

Marital possessions are technically supposed to be 50/50. Family heirlooms are discounted from that I believe (Ie if you inherited an antique watch from your grandfather, that is yours). If you think she is disposing of things that are important to you, necessary to you, have sentimental value or real worth, then I'd suggest getting a one off solicitors letter sent to your ex which might make her think twice. I know it costs money but it shouldn't cost too much for a one off letter.

Something along the lines of - We write to advise you that you are required to allow Mr X to obtain his personal possessions, as outlined in the court order dated x xxxx and that you must not sell or dispose of any personal items belonging to Mr X. To facilitate his collection of his possessions we ask that you inform us of a date he can collect them, and that you put them outside the house on this date, under cover and suitable bagged up. We attach a list of personal possessions Mr X expects to collect.

We understand there was the sum of £20,000 in a joint bank account, for business purposes, and that this money is now not in the account. Please ensure you put £10,000 back into the following account in Mr X name and the current account will be frozen shortly.

In addition, we write to advise you that both you and Mr X have the legal status of equal parental responsibility for the children and neither parent may withold the children from seeing the other parent. Please make the children available for Mr X to collect, every other week-end at 4pm on Friday until 6pm Sunday and every Wednesday from school until return to school the next day.

Please confirm the above."

A solicitor would write it better but you get the gist. If she gets a solicitor letter about the possessions, she might feel alarmed that the Police might do something or charge her money or something.

I think that would be quicker than going to CAB who might just tell you to see a solicitor (or they might get one of their legal time to write the letter but that can be a slow process).

Meanwhile - book a MIAM and get the ball rolling. Google family mediators in your area, phone round them and make an appointment with the one you like the sound of/has the earliest appointment. Tell them it's urgent. Some will have a next day appointment. The main thing is to have that MIAM as soon as possible. At that first appointment they explain what mediation can do, they check if you're eligible for legal aid (you might well be because the threshold for legal aid for mediation is much higher than for anything else). If you are then you both get free mediation basically. The mediator will then contact your ex (usually in writing) and ask her to attend the next session. Your ex will probably either ignore it, or say no, or keep fobbing off (ie cause delays). If she doesn't reply within a week, ask the mediator to sign you off so you can apply to court.

Meanwhile also, start filling in the C100 application. Most of it is straightforward but there are some important bits to make sure a) your application is accepted b) you don't accidentally give the Mother a sole residence order and c) to get some wording prepared for section 5b. this is an important part of the application.

Although you might get free mediation you still have to pay for the MIAM! the first appointment - I'm not entirely sure whether you can claim that back or not, if you're eligible for legal aid. It could be about £125 for the first appointment. The income threshold is about £2,000 a month I think. There is also a savings threshold.

But I think you need to get the Child Arrangements application in as quickly as possible, so start on that, get a MIAM booked.

That's over £300 already for the application fee and MIAM. If you don't want to pay for a solicitor letter as well, then just send her a brief BIFF email - it might not work but it will be evidence in future that you tried to (her response could be useful evidence too).

A BIFF email is "brief, informative, friendly, formal" as if writing to a business colleague - keep the personal out of it. So that would be something like

"Dear Ex Name

I am just writing to organise collecting my personal possessions, as per the court order dated xxxxx. To avoid any awkwardness for us both, I ask that you let me know a convenient date when I can collect my possessions, and that on that date, they are left outside the house, bagged up and protected from the weather, at 6pm. I have attached a list of personal possessions I wish to collect. Regards, you"

You can do anything else at a different time in a different email. If she doesn't reply then go to the Police tell them you are concerned about being accused of something if you go round and you can't enter the house without her consent.

Show them the occupation order and your email and say you've had no response.

How to complete the C100 Form

We thought a guide to completing the form could be useful. This is the C100 form for applying for a Child Arrangements Order, Specific Issues Order or Prohibited Steps Order. C100 form on .Gov website If you scroll down the page you will see...

www.dadswithkids.co.uk

Sample wording for C100 application

Attached are two versions of sample wording for section 5b of the C100 form. The sample wording assumes it's for a Child Arrangements Application. One version is more of a straightforward application. The other version is more for if...

www.dadswithkids.co.uk

 

[azerazer]

That's great Ash - thank you! Appreciate all the information. I have just read through this again. I've got 4 free days now, so I'm going to get a plan together following the above and then get working on it. Thanks!