Next steps

[Ford209]

Hi guys
So as predicted around half term arrangements there have been problems (posted on these on another thread). The ex wife is basically trying to manipulate wording of our order to suit herself. She is trying to get the kids dropped wherever she is at any time because the order state “any handovers not done at school are by way of father collecting/dropping with mother”. Id already clarified this with my solicitor who said “the legal presumption of the handover paragraph is that to mother means at her home”. Upon exercising this and refusing to drop them anywhere else hostilities have rise. Massively. Her partner attempted to block and then restrict my ordered contact call with the girls and today I have learned my eldest daughter has been pulled from school for nothing more than a girls day out after pulling my youngest last week for no good reason.

What steps should I be taking? I have sent an email to my solicitor to see if we can go back and get the order made much more specific and what action we can take regarding repeatedly pulling children from school for no good reason.

Is there anything else I can be doing?

 

[Jimi]

If the orders aren't specfic enough, hostile mums will mess them about for spite.

You can make them more specific, but in the end it makes no difference, as the court doesn't enforce the orders anyway.

If I were you I'd save the money on the solicitor and drop the kids wherever.

Your ex just wants attention and to wind you up.

 

[Ford209]

If the orders aren't specfic enough, hostile mums will mess them about for spite.

You can make them more specific, but in the end it makes no difference, as the court doesn't enforce the orders anyway.

If I were you I'd save the money on the solicitor and drop the kids wherever.

Your ex just wants attention and to wind you up.

So even if they were on holiday 200 miles away you’d take the kids there?

 

[Jimi]

Obviously not. Sorry. From your post it seemed like it was local.

Is good to have a specifically worded order, but as you probably know, because the court hardly ever enforce CAOs or penalise mothers when they ignore them, you have to wonder how much point there is to even having them most of the time.

 

[Ford209]

To be fair my ex is following it in term time quite well. It’s the half terms that aren’t specified and trying to manipulate some wording to suit her but still 90% better than it was before the order.

 

[Ash]

I think as Jimi says, it depends how unreasonable the pickup locations are. I think if you went back to court now you might run the risk of Cafcass deciding the kids are being affected by conflict. Whereas if you can keep things going for quite a bit longer and follow her unreasonable handover requirements at term ends, you'll be building up more evidence of how you have tried to avoid conflict for the kids despite her being completely unreasonable. Now if she's saying pick them up from Grandma's instead, that's not so bad, but if, like my ex did - she is 60 miles away and won't give you the proper location to go to ...................

If she's following it during term time and the issues are only over how where when at the end of term, then maybe accept she is going to be unreasonable - just ask her where she wants you to pick the kids up from. If she doesn't let you know, then the day before ask her to let you know before the morning. If she doesn't let you know then - let her breach by a day or whatever.

ie play the long game for a bit and have more and more of her disruption to show in future.

I wouldn't say enforcements are totally pointless - it's true the court can't do much by way of punishment, but if you had to enforce 2 or 3 times then a track record of her behaviour builds up and you could ask for the order to be amended to make it work. An enforcement is at least quicker than an application to vary. And if a Judge sees it's about minor wording in the order, he would probably just amend it to be clear it's Mother's home.

The fact she is following the order in term time means she is not being completely outrageous so that's quite clever.

 

[Ford209]

I think as Jimi says, it depends how unreasonable the pickup locations are. I think if you went back to court now you might run the risk of Cafcass deciding the kids are being affected by conflict. Whereas if you can keep things going for quite a bit longer and follow her unreasonable handover requirements at term ends, you'll be building up more evidence of how you have tried to avoid conflict for the kids despite her being completely unreasonable. Now if she's saying pick them up from Grandma's instead, that's not so bad, but if, like my ex did - she is 60 miles away and won't give you the proper location to go to ...................

If she's following it during term time and the issues are only over how where when at the end of term, then maybe accept she is going to be unreasonable - just ask her where she wants you to pick the kids up from. If she doesn't let you know, then the day before ask her to let you know before the morning. If she doesn't let you know then - let her breach by a day or whatever.

ie play the long game for a bit and have more and more of her disruption to show in future.

I wouldn't say enforcements are totally pointless - it's true the court can't do much by way of punishment, but if you had to enforce 2 or 3 times then a track record of her behaviour builds up and you could ask for the order to be amended to make it work. An enforcement is at least quicker than an application to vary. And if a Judge sees it's about minor wording in the order, he would probably just amend it to be clear it's Mother's home.

The fact she is following the order in term time means she is not being completely outrageous so that's quite clever.

Personally I wouldn’t say it’s clever on her part as she doesn’t think that far ahead. I would say that the wording is slack enough to allow her to be awkward in the half terms. Like at the minute how she still won’t give me dates for Easter half term. So do I send a solicitors letter asking her to confirm dates? Then there’s the Christmas issue that I messaged you privately about. Why do we have to go through the expense of getting these orders to then put up with their nonsense anyway?