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New Child - reduced payment?

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bigjimbob

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Hi, I’ve been paying CM for approximately 10 years to my ex, straight into her account. When I told her the payments would decrease as I was expecting a child with my current wife, she went to the CMS for them to calculate what I should pay.

My new child is now here and 9 weeks after her birth, I’ve finally had a child benefit letter through the post so I can prove that she actually exists (CMS won’t accept a birth certificate), so I’ve been paying approximately £50 more that I needed to be p/m during this time.

Upon providing the evidence yesterday, the CMS have said that they have a number of weeks to consider the request. This ultimately means that this will be yet another month that I’ll be out of pocket due to their slow decision making.

I’m considering just lowering the payment anyway and sending my ex partner a reduced amount (calculated with the CMS figures) based on having a new child. Will this cause WW3 with the CMS?

What annoys me is that the CMS won’t allow me to recoup any of the extra money that I’ve been paying, are so slow in making decisions and haven’t changed with the times, as it takes so long in the post-Covid world to register a child.

My wife and I are so short of cash at the minute, so this is causing a lot of stress!
 
I wouldn't do this mate as you risk that move from direct pay to the one where they whack you with a charge. Something like 20%?

Once it's gone through I think CMS should adjust for the current year to reflect the birth date retrospectively, although I can't swear to that
 
Keep on paying the specified amount until they get back to you, as frustrating as it is.

CMS will look for any excuse to put on the 20% and get their cut, I was put on a DEO back in 2019 after sending over the monthly amount to my ex via bank transfer. Even though I proved that I sent the money, by getting HSBC to send over proof, they still didn't care nor addressed her regarding her lies.
 
Anotherdad said:
Keep on paying the specified amount until they get back to you, as frustrating as it is.

CMS will look for any excuse to put on the 20% and get their cut, I was put on a DEO back in 2019 after sending over the monthly amount to my ex via bank transfer. Even though I proved that I sent the money, by getting HSBC to send over proof, they still didn't care nor addressed her regarding her lies.
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Did you manage to get off it?
 
Roblox said:
Did you manage to get off it?
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no, everytime I provide all the evidence they just ignore it. I've logged absolutely everything and now I'm threatening legal action if they continue to refuse to acknowledge the catalogue of errors and the financial abuse that they and my ex have willingly commited against me. I'm awaiting their next response and then it's sending everything to my MP and getting legal advice. I haven't worked for the best part of 2 years either and they were still charging me monthly. I provided them my flight confirmation from British Airways because I went abroad for 5 months and they ignored that also. I had to sign on and I've provided them about 5 statements as proof that I do not work, directly from Universal Credit after speaking to UC manager and they've ignored that also. I was put on child support because my ex thought she could get more out of me. When she realised that I would now be paying |£100 less per month than what I'd voluntarily gave her, she then contacted them saying I hadn't been paying. Even the amount I originally paid, per month was calculated on a previous tax year CMS choose where I was making £3000 per year more than currently. These people are disgusting, I have had 3 years of this, not even mentioning the amount of rubbish I've had from my ex and then alienation of my child for nearly 2 years now.

As of today, if I log onto the account, somehow, even though I get over £300 UC per month, it states I should pay over £600 for 1 child. I do not work! It's like talking to a brick wall and I document everything online by sending letters in PDF format rather than calling because I can better file everything & don't have the capability to record phone calls. I asked for a DNA test also, they said I have to pay for it, which would cost several hundred pounds. I said how on earth can I be expected to do that when I get just over £300 a month to survive on till I get a job and even then, when I start working with all these ficticious fees they'd added which is currently jsut under £1800 which I do not owe, after tax, child support rent etc, I will literally have nothing to survive on. These people are criminals and are allowed to exploit and abuse men, the system is set up to encourage resident parents to weaponise the system again no resident parents.

I am not suprised so many vunerable people kill themselves.
 
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Anotherdad said:
no, everytime I provide all the evidence they just ignore it. I've logged absolutely everything and now I'm threatening legal action if they continue to refuse to acknowledge the catalogue of errors and the financial abuse that they and my ex have willingly commited against me. I'm awaiting their next response and then it's sending everything to my MP and getting legal advice. I haven't worked for the best part of 2 years either and they were still charging me monthly. I provided them my flight confirmation from British Airways because I went abroad for 5 months and they ignored that also. I had to sign on and I've provided them about 5 statements as proof that I do not work, directly from Universal Credit after speaking to UC manager and they've ignored that also. I was put on child support because my ex thought she could get more out of me. When she realised that I would now be paying |£100 less per month than what I'd voluntarily gave her, she then contacted them saying I hadn't been paying. Even the amount I originally paid, per month was calculated on a previous tax year CMS choose where I was making £3000 per year more than currently. These people are disgusting, I have had 3 years of this, not even mentioning the amount of rubbish I've had from my ex and then alienation of my child for nearly 2 years now.

As of today, if I log onto the account, somehow, even though I get over £300 UC per month, it states I should pay over £600 for 1 child. I do not work! It's like talking to a brick wall and I document everything online by sending letters in PDF format rather than calling because I can better file everything & don't have the capability to record phone calls. I asked for a DNA test also, they said I have to pay for it, which would cost several hundred pounds. I said how on earth can I be expected to do that when I get just over £300 a month to survive on till I get a job and even then, when I start working with all these ficticious fees they'd added which is currently jsut under £1800 which I do not owe, after tax, child support rent etc, I will literally have nothing to survive on. These people are criminals and are allowed to exploit and abuse men, the system is set up to encourage resident parents to weaponise the system again no resident parents.

I am not suprised so many vunerable people kill themselves.
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That's horrific AnotherDad. I wouldn't wait to contact your MP. I'd do it now and say you will send more later. There is something go on at government level at the moment re the CMS. A damning report - the Gov have 2 months to respond. So now is definitely the time to write to your MP and ask them to bring it up in Parliament.

 
bigjimbob said:
Hi, I’ve been paying CM for approximately 10 years to my ex, straight into her account. When I told her the payments would decrease as I was expecting a child with my current wife, she went to the CMS for them to calculate what I should pay.

My new child is now here and 9 weeks after her birth, I’ve finally had a child benefit letter through the post so I can prove that she actually exists (CMS won’t accept a birth certificate), so I’ve been paying approximately £50 more that I needed to be p/m during this time.

Upon providing the evidence yesterday, the CMS have said that they have a number of weeks to consider the request. This ultimately means that this will be yet another month that I’ll be out of pocket due to their slow decision making.

I’m considering just lowering the payment anyway and sending my ex partner a reduced amount (calculated with the CMS figures) based on having a new child. Will this cause WW3 with the CMS?

What annoys me is that the CMS won’t allow me to recoup any of the extra money that I’ve been paying, are so slow in making decisions and haven’t changed with the times, as it takes so long in the post-Covid world to register a child.

My wife and I are so short of cash at the minute, so this is causing a lot of stress!
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As the others say, keep paying it until they reduce it or they will make your life hell.

To anyone else who is paying their ex directly by standing order, make sure the standing order reference is marked "Child Maintenance" so you can prove it's been paid. If it isn't referenced "Child Maintenance" your ex can claim that payment is for something else.
 
Anotherdad said:
no, everytime I provide all the evidence they just ignore it. I've logged absolutely everything and now I'm threatening legal action if they continue to refuse to acknowledge the catalogue of errors and the financial abuse that they and my ex have willingly commited against me. I'm awaiting their next response and then it's sending everything to my MP and getting legal advice. I haven't worked for the best part of 2 years either and they were still charging me monthly. I provided them my flight confirmation from British Airways because I went abroad for 5 months and they ignored that also. I had to sign on and I've provided them about 5 statements as proof that I do not work, directly from Universal Credit after speaking to UC manager and they've ignored that also. I was put on child support because my ex thought she could get more out of me. When she realised that I would now be paying |£100 less per month than what I'd voluntarily gave her, she then contacted them saying I hadn't been paying. Even the amount I originally paid, per month was calculated on a previous tax year CMS choose where I was making £3000 per year more than currently. These people are disgusting, I have had 3 years of this, not even mentioning the amount of rubbish I've had from my ex and then alienation of my child for nearly 2 years now.

As of today, if I log onto the account, somehow, even though I get over £300 UC per month, it states I should pay over £600 for 1 child. I do not work! It's like talking to a brick wall and I document everything online by sending letters in PDF format rather than calling because I can better file everything & don't have the capability to record phone calls. I asked for a DNA test also, they said I have to pay for it, which would cost several hundred pounds. I said how on earth can I be expected to do that when I get just over £300 a month to survive on till I get a job and even then, when I start working with all these ficticious fees they'd added which is currently jsut under £1800 which I do not owe, after tax, child support rent etc, I will literally have nothing to survive on. These people are criminals and are allowed to exploit and abuse men, the system is set up to encourage resident parents to weaponise the system again no resident parents.

I am not suprised so many vunerable people kill themselves.
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From my limited experience it's rubbish.

Claims put forward by ex has been progressed without me being consulted on some occasions. Whereas the opposite way round I've had to wait months even if she's simply stalling for time.

It's a truly awful system.
 
Only tip I have from dealing with them is - if you approach them first they can be better to deal with (ie ask for an assessment before the Ex does). Which it sounds like you did, when your child was born - and they are being slow. It’s a bureaucratic fiasco.
 
Ash said:
Only tip I have from dealing with them is - if you approach them first they can be better to deal with (ie ask for an assessment before the Ex does). Which it sounds like you did, when your child was born - and they are being slow. It’s a bureaucratic fiasco.
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And, once more, subject to inherent gender bias. I'm sorry I can't help here other than make this observation and reiterate that getting your MP involved now is important.

SS.
 
I called them them in the days after my final hearing. Told them about the situation and asked what I should do. Ex refused offer of help in court and I have coughed up when DD needed anything. CMS said I do not need to do anything. I am paying mortgage on jointly owned property and maintaining debts from setting up home and both of us working less for 5 years.

I still make sure she is in good shoes and clothes. Mum likes to keep her grubby, with matted scraggly hair and ill-fitting clothes - another part of the attempt to provoke me. She has said in application I try to impose an inappropriate beauty standard on DD. I also "force" her to bath and do not respect "her physical boundaries." Solicitor has written asking me to desist from changing her grubby clothes. It is a minefield.

I've been advised that financial stuff is separate from Child Arrangements and court will not care about CM stuff, this has been true so far. I've spent more than CM would have cost dealing with HRH's reckless and selfish approach to DD's interests.
 
Nightmare Resolute. Keep records. I've also found CMS helpful like that when I approached them. But that's because your ex hasn't asked them to open a case. If she did that, then this conversation may be forgotten. Despite you paying the mortgage and debts, it could still be claimed you haven't paid any CM, if she opened a case. Are you making the mortgage payments to her or directly to the building society? If any of the payments are to her, you could split the standing order into two standing orders, one with the reference Child Maintenance. Eg if you paying £600 a month mortgage to her by standing order, and your assessment on the CMS calculator is £200 a month, you'd split that £600 a month payment into two monthly payments - one for £400 and one for £200. And at your end, have the payment reference "Child Maintenance" for the £200 payment. She might think it weird she is getting to separate standing orders but just say it's easier money management and the total is the same.

Sorry if I'm telling you things you already know and you're probably paying the mortgage direct to the building society. But you need to be careful. So many Dads have been hit by a huge backdated bill for CM because the ex has opened a case and said "he's never paid anything". They won't count you paying the mortgage and debts - they will only want to see payments specifically marked "Child Maintenance".

If you have a family based arrangement whereby you buy things instead of paying CM, that needs to be written down in a parenting plan ideally, and agreed by both - so you can prove that if queried.

Your only legal obligation, financially, is to pay CM at the assessed rate. You are not legally obliged to pay the mortgage. I think I would look into how to work the financial payments a bit more to see how you can protect yourself.

Your ex is also making very sinister comments about your daughter and clothing. How old is your daughter again? 12 isn't it? If she has her own room, then what is she talking about. One thing I do know though, and I have a son, that at 12 upwards, they do start wanting to bath on their own etc. I wasn't quite up to speed with him not being a kid any more but he was quite clear he wanted privacy. Shutting the bathroom and bedroom door when getting washed and dressed, so I just respected that. Realising he wasn't a kid any more (and they can get embarrased, even in front of parents).

Ridiculous saying she has to keep the same clothes on all the time though. She might like doing her hair with you though!
 
My salary is still paid into the joint account which she can access (but never has). We have never had an arrangement, formal or informal, she has never attempted to get payment from me. She wants me out of the picture. I'm confident she'll use anything she can against me, but if I paid maintenance I would have to either lose the house or stop paying fares to see my daughter. Other dads have told me CMS do not go back over what happened before they are contacted.

Daughter is only 6. She does like me doing her hair usually, but it is so knotted and I never want her to tell mummy I was hurting her and she wanted me to stop. When I tell her we need to get the knots out if I am going to do a plait, she is more patient. If it gets too bad I take her to the hairdresser next door, they are great and know the situation. She does not like it when I leave her in the bath by herself, but I am very responsive to her wishes if she ever becomes shy/self-conscious. I am on the way up to see her now with new socks and shoes in my bag. Mum lets things get rotten without replacing.
 
If she's six then that's totally different and your ex is being weird. It's surprising how much drama goes on over clothes and hair. One thing I learned was not to get a haircut arranged as my ex went through the roof. Only she could decide on haircuts! I let that go rather than have the drama. With a girl it's different. Ridiculous that your ex lets daughter get knots in her hair - doesn't she ever brush your daughter's hair?! That is personal between you and daughter. My son didn't like being left in the bath by himself at that age either. In fact I still used to worry he might drown or something. And being a boy, getting him to have a bath was difficult enough anyway! So we had a lot of bath toys (Octonauts) meaning he wanted baths regularly lol. To play with the toys. Around 7 or 8 they do start getting a bit different - sometimes like a little kid, sometimes more independent. I think 8 was the turning point here. Hormones starting I guess.

Yes I have also been told they can't backdate anything with the new CMS way of working - they told me that themselves - but that was some years ago. I'm not up on the current situation and have heard of Dads getting large bills. But the fact you have approached them should be on record.

I would make a note in an email to yourself that the "family based arrangement" for CMS is that you pay the mortgage and debts from the marriage in lieu of direct Child Maintenance payments". That way the note is date and time stamped and could be used as record of the arrangement, if needed in future. Better than verbal.

I wouldn't be happy still having a joint account! At some point you will need to separate things just for self protection. Things might change if she meets someone else.

Tips for knots in hair I found helped was - stick a dvd or film on. My son had knits and had to do knit combing daily for a while, which tugged. He hated having his hair washed, so I got a spray on conditioner to wet it and just combed it through when wet with the nit comb. If sat in front of a film with popcorn etc, he detached from it and it didn't bother him. Without the film it was major drama.

He was sent to me to get rid of the nits! Ex didn't want to deal with it. The irony when she now keeps him away as much as possible.

Your ex shouldn't be interfering in your time with your daughter. Did you reply to that solicitor's letter? I would be tempted to send something brief saying "If our daughter's clothes require washing, then I wash them and have other clothes for her to wear when she is in my care. She is free to choose what she wants to wear, with some guidance so it's appropriate. I request your client ceases to interfere with normal parenting time".

But that might get your ex's back up.
 
Ash said:
That's horrific AnotherDad. I wouldn't wait to contact your MP. I'd do it now and say you will send more later. There is something go on at government level at the moment re the CMS. A damning report - the Gov have 2 months to respond. So now is definitely the time to write to your MP and ask them to bring it up in Parliament.

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your MP will do nothing, complete waste of space and your time
 
Hey cut with all the negativity Hacked off Dad! Everything is worth trying - the more we push the more we're heard. Have a look at Vincent McGovern's book "The war on Dads and children". He's with FNF and on Twitter. It's quite a good read - he pestered absolutely everyone!

 
Ash said:
If she's six then that's totally different and your ex is being weird. It's surprising how much drama goes on over clothes and hair. One thing I learned was not to get a haircut arranged as my ex went through the roof. Only she could decide on haircuts! I let that go rather than have the drama. With a girl it's different. Ridiculous that your ex lets daughter get knots in her hair - doesn't she ever brush your daughter's hair?! That is personal between you and daughter. My son didn't like being left in the bath by himself at that age either. In fact I still used to worry he might drown or something. And being a boy, getting him to have a bath was difficult enough anyway! So we had a lot of bath toys (Octonauts) meaning he wanted baths regularly lol. To play with the toys. Around 7 or 8 they do start getting a bit different - sometimes like a little kid, sometimes more independent. I think 8 was the turning point here. Hormones starting I guess.

Yes I have also been told they can't backdate anything with the new CMS way of working - they told me that themselves - but that was some years ago. I'm not up on the current situation and have heard of Dads getting large bills. But the fact you have approached them should be on record.

I would make a note in an email to yourself that the "family based arrangement" for CMS is that you pay the mortgage and debts from the marriage in lieu of direct Child Maintenance payments". That way the note is date and time stamped and could be used as record of the arrangement, if needed in future. Better than verbal.

I wouldn't be happy still having a joint account! At some point you will need to separate things just for self protection. Things might change if she meets someone else.

Tips for knots in hair I found helped was - stick a dvd or film on. My son had knits and had to do knit combing daily for a while, which tugged. He hated having his hair washed, so I got a spray on conditioner to wet it and just combed it through when wet with the nit comb. If sat in front of a film with popcorn etc, he detached from it and it didn't bother him. Without the film it was major drama.

He was sent to me to get rid of the nits! Ex didn't want to deal with it. The irony when she now keeps him away as much as possible.

Your ex shouldn't be interfering in your time with your daughter. Did you reply to that solicitor's letter? I would be tempted to send something brief saying "If our daughter's clothes require washing, then I wash them and have other clothes for her to wear when she is in my care. She is free to choose what she wants to wear, with some guidance so it's appropriate. I request your client ceases to interfere with normal parenting time".

But that might get your ex's back up.
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Thanks for the tips on baths and hair. I am doing similar with the knots to what you did. Mum never brushes hair, I can only do it once every two weeks, that is why it is such a struggle. There has been no kickback when I've done haircuts, but I always let DD take charge on this. She decides if it is necessary and she instructs the hairdresser.

I did respond to the solicitor, said it is my responsibility to ensure our daughter is clean and dressed appropriately. He was just fishing, even asked me to desist from buying clothes and claimed it distresses DD.

Financials, they have been totally unreasonable. I engaged until I had a position I was ready to defend if they make an application, then went quiet. I agree joint account is not ideal, seems like lesser evil. Direct debits still come out of that account for joint bills, she would be in default if it was not for me. Child benefit still goes in there. She was invited to mediation in December 21, no response. Solicitor has requested multiple times that I discuss nothing other than "contact" directly with her, ex has requested the same. I feel ready to defend where I am, and do not want to make a move to a worse position.

It is a mess, but as I keep saying, her solicitors are expert at leaving no good move for me. I was given the option of paying her a massively inflated amount for the property, or putting it to open market in a state not fit for sale.

It has been quiet since about March, solicitor letter I get then was insane. Loads of allegations relating to inappropriate care of DD on my part. I think financial proceedings would be disproportionate, her half of assets would not cover her legal fees. It might be a stalemate until further Childrens Act proceedings have passed.
 
Just a little update on my side, i sent a long letter with multiple points of concern to CMS last week with bullet points that I wanted them to directly respond to, regarding the money they've charged me. I written it in Word & converted to PDF then attached it onto the online account and said I will be taking legal action and require all communication by PDF/Letter as proof.

They replied saying they need to speak to me on the phone, I again replied in a formal message online and said if you can reply to me with confirmation that you will be sending me a copy of the audio conversation then I am more than happy to speak on the phone. They got back to me saying they will investigate my concerns and be in touch soon.

So several days later they send a PDF letter going through the various points I've raised and how backhanded they've been, they of course came back being on the defensive saying that they rely on the parents keeping them upto date etc. They have taken £1000 off this £2000 which they said I owe. I have left it a few days but now I will be going through my records to dig deeper so I can get the remainder taken off.

Just messaging in case this is useful to anyone, phone is quicker however, just to cover your back and document everything, I would also consider you typing up and dating letters via Microsoft Word/Open Office then converting it to a PDF and attaching it to a message via the online portal. They don't seem to like it when you turn it around on them.
 
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