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Need some guidance

Might be an idea to add a vague timescale as well. I know originally you said when the house was sold but think it's better not to mention that. Could it maybe be you are organising finances to provide a home for you and the children and move nearer them, "within the next year". Or is that too tight a timescale? Within the next 18 months or so?
 
Just had a thought. Definitely ask for a defined order (ie specific dates and weeks). Because your eldest is 10 and now is the time to pin this down - once they get to 11 or 12 Mums can mess about a lot and say "she's doing something else, doesn't want to come". If it's a vague order that just says every other week-end and 2 weeks in summer she is not in breach of it if there are no specific dates. That is the purpose of a defined order - to deter her from breaching it and ensure it's followed.

Just because it has set dates and weeks, doesn't mean you can't agree to change them between you. There's always a clause that says "such further and other times as agreed between the parties in writing".

Which basically means you can change anything - as long as both are agreed, and its in writing (ie by email or text). However it's better to stick to the ordered weeks if you can or she can mess about. If the ordered weeks are in a court order it should give you priority with leave dates at work (depending on your work I guess).
 
Thank you, that reads so much better and a lot clearer. I’ll make a few amendments, I won’t really be able to keep them for half their hols due to getting the time of work, thats why I was just asking for 2 weeks in summer and a week at Easter, Christmas. To define the dates could it be the first week of Easter/Christmas along with first and last week of summer hols and is every other weekend Friday eve to Sun or Sat to Sun. With the moving out I could say within the next 18 months but if she don’t want to leave then I can’t really commit to that.
 
How about half terms? That would basically just be your normal every other week-end plus 2.5 days. If you just want the usual week-ends at half terms then best to put that because otherwise you'll miss that week-end as it'll be classed as a holiday week. You might have difficulty with the last week of summer holidays - ex's seem to like that week to get ready for return to school but I may be wrong there. Also that means you don't see them for a month. Two weeks in the middle maybe? Or would you rather have two separate weeks? It would be fine to say the first week of the Easter holidays each year. The Easter bank holiday week-end usually falls in the second half of the Easter holidays or gets split between the two halves, with Good friday in the first half. So depends if you're bothered about that. With Christmas it's always tricky because sometimes Christmas Day is a couple of days after term ends (ie in the first week), sometimes it's between the first and second week. There are various options. If you want them for Christmas on alternate years you could have "half the Christmas holidays with 1pm 23rd Dec to 6pm 26th December on alternate years". That basically leaves you working out the remaining dates with your ex over the Christmas holidays. If you ask for the first week each year then that usually includes Christmas Day so you're not likely to get that - Christmas Day usually alternates between parents.

What I had, for example was 1pm 23rd to 11am 26th and the last five days of the holidays on one year, the rest with ex, then alternating the following year. But with the distance that would mean two trips. I would maybe say something like the first week of the Christmas holidays in 2022 and even years, and the second week in 2023 and odd years. Then it's pot luck if Christmas day falls in the first half! Second part is always new year.

BUT - you need to ask for a start date for the holidays or there are arguments over when the first week starts. Does it start from the last day of term (in which case Christmas and Easter are 18 days). Or does it start from the Monday after the week-end at the end of term (in which case there are just two full weeks). As you're wanting the first week to include Christmas I would suggest asking for all holiday weeks to commence on the first Monday after term ends. So the week-end at the end of term would be a normal week-end with one or other parent, and there would then be two holiday weeks Monday to Monday.

The downside to that is if you ever wanted to book something and go away - doesn't give you a full week Saturday to Saturday. So in that sense it can be better to have more than a single week. ie just "half" the Christmas or Easter holidays. It takes some thinking about.

Better in a way if all holidays start on the last day of term (ie when school finished for the day) from the Friday. Then the week is Friday 4pm to Friday 4pm or something (which also doesn't allow for a full week's holiday booking). That's why it would probably be better to have two consecutive weeks in the summer whether at the start or in the middle - so you can get a full week or 10 days away within that if you want to.

I'd suggest something like

I therefore respectfully request the court makes a defined order for the children to spend time with me as follows:

Every other week-end from xpm Friday to xpm Sunday, to include my usual week-end for half term holiday weeks, the first week of the Easter holidays, the first two weeks of the Summer holidays, and a full week at Christmas, with the first week in 2022 and even years and the second week in 2023 and odd years. With all holiday weeks commencing 10am on Saturday morning after term ends and running 10am Saturday to 10am Saturday.

That means your weeks are always Saturday to Saturday so you don't have to get there after school at the end of term. Easter would always include Good friday. Christmas would usually be included in the first week.

The more specific the defined dates are the less messing about there is. So it's clear to everyone when the children are in your care and when in hers. And she can't say a week only goes up to Friday night or something (this kind of thing happens). There is always expected to be flexibility so if you need to take them back earlier than 10am or she's not available till 11am you agree that between you, but always do it in writing.
 
Thats great, makes sense to be spend as possible, I didn't know that the weekends are not available in their summer holidays, so I ask for first two weeks in summer hols then does that mean I can’t see them for the remaining 4 weeks which in that case might make sense to keep it in the middle.
 
Yep. The every other week end is term time only. So if you want any time in school holidays that needs specifying clearly. Middle two weeks sounds good to me.
 
What the order is doing basically is specifying when the kids are with your ex and when they are with you. Anything not mentioned or asked for and they will be with her. Defined dates and good wording matter as if there are any ambiguities she could keep them (ie when do holidays actually start),
 
What you could do is ask for week 3 and 4 in summer plus an additional week end in the summer holidays.
 
Thanks, that seems reasonable, also I wanted to ask for time seeing them on special occasions such as birthdays, I don’t want to go the alternate years route as she would want to be with them on their Birthday too and could be difficult if there’e at school, so maybe a few hours or some sort of contact on that day.
 
That's known as "special days". You could ask for a few hours on their birthdays, but as they get older it tends to work better if they're with one parent. What I did for years was just celebrate my son's birthday on the day nearest when I saw him - but then I saw him every 3 or 4 days. So basically he had two birthdays each year. You could even just leave it that childrens birthdays spent as per the usual schedule. But depends when your kids birthdays are. Are they always in term time or in the holidays? Sometimes they'd have a party or birthday event at the week-end after an actual birthday anyway. I also have parents birthdays added as it's good for them to see you on your birthday, plus Mothers Day and fathers day. So if either of Fathers day doesn't fall on your week-end you get the day as an extra and vice versa - if it does fall on your week-end, no issues.
 
It''s true alternate years can get complicated if their birthdays are during term time. But if you only see them every other week-end that's a long time to wait for a second birthday. If you ask for a few hours on their birthday though, that means you might end up being in the same place as ex on the day, which can be a problem (for the kids as well when they're used to seeing you separately). One option could be

"Special days:

These will be childrens birthdays, parents birthdays, Mothers Day and Fathers Day

Childrens birthdays: If these fall midweek then the children will spend an additional day the week-end following the birthday, if they are not already scheduled to be with the Father that week-end. Otherwise, childrens birthdays to be spent with the parent they are scheduled to be with on that day.

Parents birthdays: Mothers birthday to be spent with Mother and Fathers birthday to be spent with Father, and the schedule adjusted accordingly. In the event that the Father's birthday falls midweek, the children will spend an additional day the following week-end with the Father, unless they are already scheduled to see the Father that week-end.

Mothers Day and Fathers Day: Mothers Day to be spent with the Mother and Father's Day to be spent with the Father. In the event these do not fall within the parents usual scheduled week-ends, there will be an adjustment of one day that week-end from 5pm the night before until 6pm on Mothers or Fathers Day."

That's the kind of detail you'd have in a draft order, but for your application you could just say - an adjustment by means of an additional week-end day, for Childrens birthdays, parents birthdays should they fall midweek. And Mothers Day to be spent with Mother and Fathers Day to be spent with Father.

What the option above does for the childrens birthdays is - if their birthday is midweek term time and your week-end doesn't come straight after, you get an additional week-end day straight after their birthday - for a birthday celebration. Either the saturday or Sunday.
 
Thanks for all the info, i’m pretty much there with the statement. When I submit the application which will be online, how long after that will the ex be notified, just thinking i’m due to see the kids next weekend which by the time will be 3 weeks with no contact (unless she claims they are unavailable again) as if she finds out before I see them I am pretty convinced she will stop me from seeing them at all from then onwards.

Also just getting a little nervous in going ahead, she will do everything to ensure I don’t get any say or control, will probably come up with all sorts of allegations and most definitely alienate the kids, although they are under 12 now, she will still say they don’t want to see me even if I do get a order in place, could that be more prevalent when they are older even with a previous court order.

Just weighing it all up one final time, as although i’m seeing them now on her terms at least but worried taking this step could make things a lot worse, however I also don’t want to be dictated to and end up being cut from their lives eventually anyway so therefore am pretty determined to take some action now.
 
It's always nerve wracking. She won't hear anything by next week-end I'm sure, but if you want to be on the safe side, don't send it till Wednesday :). It's usually a couple of weeks at least before court papers are sent out with a hearing date. And yes you can probably expect an explosion then. But - she will also be anxious. And it might look bad for her if she tries to stop the kids coming, so she'll be thinking about that. If she stops them coming after receiving the application then you can say that to Cafcass and in your position statement for the first hearing. But it can go either way - she might be wanting to show there's no need for an order by keeping to a schedule during the court proceedings (mine tried that). Yes she might say "you're Dad's taking me to court" but that won't necessarily alienate the kids. They keep their loyalties usually. Alienation is something else. If she does stop them you could maybe send a solicitors letter telling her to let them see you.

But it's one reason why wording the application carefully is important. On the one hand you want to persuade the court that this is important and necessary. On the other hand the tone needs to be calm and nothing directly negative about her - just stating it as it is. Which you have.

And you need to be able to have staying over time with you ongoing.

If you want to message me with the final version I can look over it. It's quite important to get it right from the outset so you don't have delays or issues later or a badly worded order later.
 
Thanks for that, I've pretty much put together what you have suggested as it gives a better picture and is to the point. With Christmas holidays I have just put down the 1st week as it shouldn't matter due to the fact we don't really celebrate it. For every other weekend I have asked to pick them up on a Friday, which could be difficult with the travel so shuld I say this can run from Sat-Sun and then if I move closer extend from Friday to Sunday? Let me know if the following is sufficient.

My former wife, Jane, and I met in x year and were married in x year. Our children Catherine and Elizabeth were born in x year and x year. And are now ages 10 and 6 respectively.

Jane and I separated over 2 years ago and since then we have had an informal arrangement in place whereby I see the children at least every other weekend, often extending to longer periods after the week-end.

Since November 2020 I have been living with my parents while organising the finances to provide a home of my own for myself and the children. The distance is 125 miles from Jane and the children, and since moving here Jane has imposed conditions that the children cannot stay with me at my parents home (the childrens paternal grandparents). My parents’ home, which is currently my home too, has plenty of space and the children would have their own room and I would also have my own room.

As such I have been having to stay in hotels to have my children with me which can be an issue when it comes to being able to see then over an extended period. In addition, the regular phone calls I had with my children between visits has been completely withdrawn since October 2021.

I am intending to move closer to the children once I am in a position to purchase another property hopefuly within the next 18 months.

I am concerned that the current situation is unstable and uncertain for my children and they are unable to have the relaxed quality time with me that they are used to and cannot speak to me in between visits. In addition, staying in hotels is not a particularly affordable solution long term.

Jane’s view seems to be that she doesn’t believe it is suitable for my children to stay with my parents. I am not in agreement with this and although this is not a permanent home for them it means they also have the benefit of time with their grandparents and a more usual home life environment with me.

I have tried to discuss the matter with Jane and have tried mediation but to no avail.

I feel it is extremely important that the children continue to have ongoing stability, certainty and security with both their parents, and are able to enjoy happy loving relationships with both their parents and extended family members.

I therefore respectfully request the court to make an order as follows:

For the children to spend every other week-end from 8pm Friday to 2pm Sunday, to include my usual week-end for half term holiday weeks, the first week of the Easter holidays, weeks 4 & 5 of the Summer holidays, and the first week of the Christmas holidays, With all holiday weeks commencing 10am on Saturday morning after term ends and running 10am Saturday to 10am Saturday. Also, video calls with the children midweek during term time and a video call with each parent during longer holiday periods away.

In addition, an adjustment by means of an additional week-end day for Childrens birthdays and parents birthdays should they fall midweek. And Mothers Day to be spent with Mother and Fathers Day to be spent with Father. Also to spend a few hours with children on relisgious festivals (twice yearly).
 
Hmm. I think at this stage it might just be better to leave it as "every other weekend" and not specify the times at this stage and leave that till later. 8pm is quite late to pick up and 2pm sounds very early to drop off. 7pm pick up might be ok and return on Sunday would usually be 6pm or 7pm. To make the travel worthwhile. How about weeks 3 and 4 of the holidays? That's smack in the middle. I think you need to specify what you mean by religious festivals as I was assuming you meant Christmas and Easter, but if there are others, then specify the specific days perhaps.
 
Thanks, will leave it as every other weekend in that case, just thinking it would be a lot of travel back n forth for just a weekend so would most likely stay in hotels until I move closer but be able to bring them here over the holidays, main thing is having that structure and knowing that the weekends can’t change so I can pre book in advance if needs be and having that extra agreed time in their holidays. Just lwondering if I need to reword that or just keep it as it is with the original proposal.
 
Hi, just an update. I’ve had the court papers through today following my c100 application, not sure I fully understand content within them. It says where practicable case management hearings which don’t involve evidence should be conducted remotely and upon receipt of cafcass safeguarding checks and therefore the case will be placed before a JLA who will determine whether the matter is suitable for a FHDR appointment by telephone or if directions can be issued on paper to progress the case without the need for a first hearing by telephone.

Can someone explain that in plain english, i’m assuming the next step is that cafcass will contact me and then it will depend if I need to attend a hearing by telephone?
 
Yes it's the new triaging system apparently. Conducted remotely means by video link instead of actually attending (some are remote hearings some are actual hearings). Upon receipt of Cafcass safeguarding checks means, after Cafcass has done their call with you and your ex and written their report/letter. The JLA is a legal adviser (not sure what the J stands for). FHDR is First Hearing Dispute Resolution Appointment. The A is "Appointment" (ie the first hearing where they see if you can agree on things).

So basically the process used to be:

1) Application submitted
2) Court papers received with a hearing date for FHDRA and usually asking for a parenting plan to be brought to the first hearing.
3) Cafcass phone calls with both parents
4) Cafcass letter issued to both parents and the court - stating if there are any welfare issues or not
5) First hearing and if no agreement, interim order made until the next hearing. First hearing could be Judge or Magistrates.

With the new triaging system (courts are overloaded) it is:

1) Application submitted
2) Court papers don't have a date for FHDRA
3) Cafcass phone calls with both parents
4) Cafcass letter/report as above
5) Gatekeeping hearing - between Cafcass and Legal Adviser to give directions as to what happens next - ie will it be an FHDRA or will it go straight to a fact finding hearing (if allegations are made). Neither parent is present at this Gatekeeping Hearing.
6) Assuming no welfare issues in Cafcass letter then you should then get a date for a first hearing (FHDRA).

So it does actually slightly delay things if it's a straightforward case but can speed things up with some cases with allegations.

Basically it's saying - wait till we tell you a hearing date and what kind of hearing it will be and whether it will be a remote hearing or not.
 
Thanks Ash, that makes a lot more sense to me now.

The ex has already contacted me saying she can’t believe i’ve taken this step and that i’m dragging the kids through it now that they are settled with a load of other stuff. I’m trying not to respond and have just said that I don’t want to discuss this with her and if she has anything to say then go through a third party to speak to me.
 
Screenshot her message (if it was a written message) accusing you of "dragging the kids through this".
 
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