NDV called asking for my address for court order from ex

[lunico93x]

I'm in the early-ish stages (three months in) of the usual battle with the ex. She's gone no contact, not letting me see my daughter (2) and has gone to the police. Police have interviewed me and I'm awaiting outcome, C100 has gone in and I'm awaiting a hearing. It's a lot of waiting.

Anyway I got a call from the National Domestic Violence helpline this morning asking for my address. They said there's an order from my local court that I need to see. I'm guessing it can only be an ex-parte non-molestation order.

If that is the case, I can say I've not contacted or been anywhere near her in months. I did move to within about a mile of where she lives but have not gone to their home, and wouldn't (despite desperately missing my child). As I know what her allegations are - all historical, non-specific and completely fabricated - I'm guessing they would be enough to "justify" an ex-parte order. But what are the implications? Do I need to be concerned about this order affecting either the police or the CAO processes? I'm assuming a hearing would be set if it's ex-parte, should I attend and what should I be trying to achieve?

Many thanks.

 

[lunico93x]

I'm concerned the order is going to force me to move house. I just checked the distance from my new home to where she's living, and it is 318 metres. Although there are several roads, including a B road, and hills, and it's not exactly like I'm on her street. I moved in two months ago and haven't even visited the street, or that side of the area; I'd have to really go out of my way to go near her home.

 

[Resolute]

The NMO is unlikely to have much impact on police process. It will carry weight on the family law side.

The NDV people may have been getting your address for the application. There may not yet be an order. If you are served an ex parte NMO you should have a 'return date' in the order. Usually 2 weeks I believe. This would be your opportunity to contest the order.

There is court guidance on this stuff which I do not have to hand. Try googling something like - ex parte non molestation order guidance.

 

[Nanaforsonsjustice]

If all the allegations are historic, the judge will likely refuse the ex parte (without notice) application on the basis that the Section 45(2) criteria was not made out. A Return Hearing will be listed before the Lay Justices to reconsider the application and you will be sent a date and the application and any statement and evidence so you can attend. You can get a direct access barrister to represent you at the hearing who will advise whether to take an undertaking not admitting guilt, ask for a joint undertaking or ask for a fact find. The non mol judge will likely merge the case with the child arrangement case.

It will not affect the Police matter if she manages to get a non mol.

It may affect the child arrangements order if she gets a non mol. As the Judges/magistrates for the CAO will likely think a fact finding hearing might be required to hash out any allegations. If they do a schedule and statements from her will be requested with evidence, which you get to respond to. Then the judge/Magistrates will decide whether a fact find is necessary and proportionate, and it will be if and only if it will affect the outcome of the case. Normally if any allegations don’t involve the child, they are not relevant.

 

[Resolute]

Found it:

https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2023/07/Practice-Guidance-Non-Molestation-Injunctions.pdf

Paragraphs 3 and 9 are important. But I recommend you read the whole thing closely. It may give you comeback if the court does not follow process.

 

[lunico93x]

Thank you guys. I figure I have to wait and see the wording of the order. Seeing as she's been evasive for the service address for the C100 (initially I was told she lived with one relative in one court area, so issued the application there, turns out she was living with a different relative in another court area, so the first court are trying to transfer it but they're not doing a very good job), the proceedings haven't been fully issued yet, so I don't think - I may be wrong - there's anything for the NMO to be merged with at this point. It is possible though.

I'm pretty confident I can refute all allegations, because I have an idea of what she's alleging due to the police interview. I wondered if it's worth contesting those allegations through the NMO process, which would discredit her (or credit me) for the CAO process.

If I don't contest her allegations made for the NMO application, does that mean I accept that I have done those things in the eyes of the CAO court?

 

[lunico93x]

Found it:

https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2023/07/Practice-Guidance-Non-Molestation-Injunctions.pdf

Paragraphs 3 and 9 are important. But I recommend you read the whole thing closely. It may give you comeback if the court does not follow process.

Appreciated and read, thank you.

Another aspect which I'm not sure the ex knows about yet is that at the end of April I went to the police about the seven years of abuse - including one attempt of murder, one of tampering with my medications, one specific strangulation, and three assaults, as well as coercive and controlling behaviour. I'm not sure if she's even been interviewed yet, but it's got to be soon if not. I have evidence of her attempted murder of me, which the police have.

I wonder if I could say at the NMO hearing (if there is one) that I too am a victim of abuse and violence. Her father has threatened to kill me twice, once in 2018 and once this year. I wonder if that will have any bearing on the judge's view.

 

[Resolute]

Appreciated and read, thank you.

Another aspect which I'm not sure the ex knows about yet is that at the end of April I went to the police about the seven years of abuse - including one attempt of murder, one of tampering with my medications, one specific strangulation, and three assaults, as well as coercive and controlling behaviour. I'm not sure if she's even been interviewed yet, but it's got to be soon if not. I have evidence of her attempted murder of me, which the police have.

I wonder if I could say at the NMO hearing (if there is one) that I too am a victim of abuse and violence. Her father has threatened to kill me twice, once in 2018 and once this year. I wonder if that will have any bearing on the judge's view.

In my view, you are better focussing on why the NMO against you is not justified. Your ex has the status quo in her favour. Hence the attempt to drive as big a wedge as she can between you and the child.

Your aim should be for the child to have regular and significant time with both parents insofar as is consistent with their welfare. This requires the parents to put their differences aside in service of the child's best interests.

I worry that going toe to toe with your ex too early, especially with such a young child. Will lead services, and thereby the court, to label this as 'conflict between the parents.' The knee jerk will then be to protect the child by keeping one parent at arms length and giving control to the other.

Just my initial impression. Others may see differently.

P.s. are you relying on things that took place before the child was born? If you are, I'm not sure how much weight that should/would carry.

 

[lunico93x]

The timing is suss. I think she got wind of the C100 application in the last two weeks, and then has done this to get Legal Aid, because the police haven't done what she wanted and given her the licence to print lawyer money. I haven't seen her face-to-face since the first week of February, haven't harassed her. Why it would be issued ex-parte is concerning but it's in the timing. Can I point that out to the court?

 

[NewcastleBrownAle]

never give out your address to anyone that the court didn't order. The national helpline doesnt care about you, or what you want and I'd simply not have anything to do with them.

 

[NewcastleBrownAle]

I'm in the early-ish stages (three months in) of the usual battle with the ex. She's gone no contact, not letting me see my daughter (2) and has gone to the police. Police have interviewed me and I'm awaiting outcome, C100 has gone in and I'm awaiting a hearing. It's a lot of waiting.

Anyway I got a call from the National Domestic Violence helpline this morning asking for my address. They said there's an order from my local court that I need to see. I'm guessing it can only be an ex-parte non-molestation order.

If that is the case, I can say I've not contacted or been anywhere near her in months. I did move to within about a mile of where she lives but have not gone to their home, and wouldn't (despite desperately missing my child). As I know what her allegations are - all historical, non-specific and completely fabricated - I'm guessing they would be enough to "justify" an ex-parte order. But what are the implications? Do I need to be concerned about this order affecting either the police or the CAO processes? I'm assuming a hearing would be set if it's ex-parte, should I attend and what should I be trying to achieve?

Many thanks.

even if it is ex-parte, the judge won't grant it until they are satisfied it is required and even then, you will get the opportunity to attend a court hearing to state your case.

 

[NewcastleBrownAle]

I'm concerned the order is going to force me to move house. I just checked the distance from my new home to where she's living, and it is 318 metres. Although there are several roads, including a B road, and hills, and it's not exactly like I'm on her street. I moved in two months ago and haven't even visited the street, or that side of the area; I'd have to really go out of my way to go near her home.

They also could not put in place an exclusion that would interfere with where you are living. I'd sit back and wait and see what happens rather than second guess and stress over it.

 

[lunico93x]

even if it is ex-parte, the judge won't grant it until they are satisfied it is required and even then, you will get the opportunity to attend a court hearing to state your case.

I'll wait to see the wording and then speak to a solicitor and/or if it seems worth it, get a barrister to go to the return hearing. I just don't want to burn £thousands which I'm keeping in reserve for the child arrangements case.

 

[lunico93x]

They also could not put in place an exclusion that would interfere with where you are living. I'd sit back and wait and see what happens rather than second guess and stress over it.

Thank you! I appreciate that.

 

[NewcastleBrownAle]

I'll wait to see the wording and then speak to a solicitor and/or if it seems worth it, get a barrister to go to the return hearing. I just don't want to burn £thousands which I'm keeping in reserve for the child arrangements case.

you have 3 choices - accept it , contest it, or accept an undertaking (or cross undertaking). You'd be mad to accept it. Contesting it takes a long time and you can't move forward in family court until it is complete.

An undertaking or cross undertaking is the way to go.

an undertaking differs considerably to an NMO, and you can guarantee that her solicitor will be falling over themselves to get you to agree to one, just make sure you put conditions into it as well, to make it a cross undertaking.

You can't be arrested for breaching and undertaking, if you breach she would have to take you to court and also it is not renewable.

 

[lunico93x]

you have 3 choices - accept it , contest it, or accept an undertaking (or cross undertaking). You'd be mad to accept it. Contesting it takes a long time and you can't move forward in family court until it is complete.

An undertaking or cross undertaking is the way to go.

Agree though it sounds like undertakings are removed as an option of domestic violence/abuse is alleged (which she has to the police, all baseless and fantasy but still waiting for police decision).

 

[NewcastleBrownAle]

Agree though it sounds like undertakings are removed as an option of domestic violence/abuse is alleged (which she has to the police, all baseless and fantasy but still waiting for police decision).

Ok, the NMO won't proceed until after the police have finished otherwise they risk prejudicing your case and yes, undertaking for DV allegations are the norm. All part of the game they play to stop you seeing your kids and get legal aid.

 

[Resolute]

Agree though it sounds like undertakings are removed as an option of domestic violence/abuse is alleged (which she has to the police, all baseless and fantasy but still waiting for police decision).

If you go to the return hearing and lay out your case, the judge may dispense with the order on the spot. Or, accept an undertaking in its place.

Wait and see what paperwork you receive, if you do get any. It is not impossible to deal with this stuff in person. You can have the return hearing and save money for the barrister in CA.

 

[NewcastleBrownAle]

one of the biggest issues that must be address soon - just because you argue at the end of your relationship or about child arrangements, this does not make it domestic abuse - but there isn't any actual working definition and just about every area has domestic violence programs that the ex can go on, which is basically a playbook of how to make allegations and make out you're a DV victim. You also have to be a DV victim to qualify for legal aid, so yet another incentive to make false allegations. This situation really needs to change, because it is damaging kids, not just NRPs.

 

[Nanaforsonsjustice]

Ok, the NMO won't proceed until after the police have finished otherwise they risk prejudicing your case and yes, undertaking for DV allegations are the norm. All part of the game they play to stop you seeing your kids and get legal aid.

A NNO can proceed even if the Police are still investigating. Police often advise victims to get a NMO as it means they won’t get regular harassment calls because the NMO prevents harassment.

The plus side of contesting a NMO is the judge will order a fact finding for the NMO and if they allegations are not found, then those allegations cannot be used in a CAO hearing because a family court has already dismissed them.

My son has a NMO against his ex and the police are still investigating allegations against her that form the offences in the NMO.