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Mrleicsfox

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Hello all,
New to the site and seeking some solace and advice. I was married for 20+ years in what I see now was a really flawed relationship with a controlling partner. I will hold my hands up from the start and say that I was deeply unhappy and met someone new and had an affair. I am still with this person and we now have a baby together. I am not perfect or blameless and I knew that things were going to be hard but what I did not expect was to lose my 3 precious children completely. They are older and were angry and confused - understandably. Instead of things calming over time (it is now well over a year), they just become more angry and frustrated and drift further and further away. The approach of their mum is to bad-mouth, over share, manipulate and twist everything I try and say and do into a negative. She was verbally abusive and intimidating through messages that eventually 2 cease and desist letters were sent. The children see and hear all of this. They are now weaponised and highly abusive towards me and refuse any contact saying that I have abandoned them, moved on and don't love them. This is not true. I reach out to them everyday. Leave treats on the doorstep for them, write letters, offer ways in to try and rebuild. I never put any pressure on them or guilt trip them, just let them know I am here and ready for them. Their mum has an incredible outward facing persona so the world sees a kind, forgiving and loving mum. This is very different to what I experience and experienced in the marriage. The weekend just passed, she saw me out in my car and was driving hers, span the car round and followed me for several miles, driving up close and flashing her lights at me. I drove to my parents house nearby where she angrily confronted me, insisting I listen to her but saying nothing new and repeating the same vitriolic shaming abuse. She has said she wants to destroy me and her actions show this to be the case too. I know she is hurt and angry but seems to want to stay in this state until I am isolated, shamed, condemned and broke. I refuse to be as I need to be ready for if and when the children come back to me.
I fully acknowledge my imperfections and failings but I never expected to lose my children. I understand if people don't get where I am coming from and feel I am maybe not deserving of any sympathy. It is a long convoluted tale with many twists and turns. Thank you. I just wanted to share.
 
Hiya mate, Welcome. Sorry to hear your going through the mill.

There's no judgement here, just a lot of people in a very similar boat. This is a great place to rant, rave and ask advice. I think we all appreciate a safe space to be able to share our stories and provide a bit of support to one another. We have failings, imperfections and things we wish we had done differently but in this situation its soooooooo helpful to have a platform to come too.

Only advice I'd give right of the bat is, stop engaging with the ex in anyway (no calls, txts, whatsapp, walk away from a confrontation). A lot of us have been on the wrong end of very easily made up allegations and a comfy night in case de plod. If she's saying shes going to destroy you, take is seriously and don't give her any ammo. I read on here "keep the target area small" and that's sage advice.

If shes already using your children against you it may be worth backing off a bit with the contact with them as well. Give them a bit of space rather than more ammo for the ex when they tell her you've been in touch with them.
 
Hi. Really sorry to hear your story. Can I ask how old your kids are now? Assume you didn't try any family court orders after separation? Also assume that your post means you don't get to see your kids at all - is that right? Or do you get to see them but they reject you and are angry?
 
Mrleicsfox said:
Hello all,
New to the site and seeking some solace and advice. I was married for 20+ years in what I see now was a really flawed relationship with a controlling partner. I will hold my hands up from the start and say that I was deeply unhappy and met someone new and had an affair. I am still with this person and we now have a baby together. I am not perfect or blameless and I knew that things were going to be hard but what I did not expect was to lose my 3 precious children completely. They are older and were angry and confused - understandably. Instead of things calming over time (it is now well over a year), they just become more angry and frustrated and drift further and further away. The approach of their mum is to bad-mouth, over share, manipulate and twist everything I try and say and do into a negative. She was verbally abusive and intimidating through messages that eventually 2 cease and desist letters were sent. The children see and hear all of this. They are now weaponised and highly abusive towards me and refuse any contact saying that I have abandoned them, moved on and don't love them. This is not true. I reach out to them everyday. Leave treats on the doorstep for them, write letters, offer ways in to try and rebuild. I never put any pressure on them or guilt trip them, just let them know I am here and ready for them. Their mum has an incredible outward facing persona so the world sees a kind, forgiving and loving mum. This is very different to what I experience and experienced in the marriage. The weekend just passed, she saw me out in my car and was driving hers, span the car round and followed me for several miles, driving up close and flashing her lights at me. I drove to my parents house nearby where she angrily confronted me, insisting I listen to her but saying nothing new and repeating the same vitriolic shaming abuse. She has said she wants to destroy me and her actions show this to be the case too. I know she is hurt and angry but seems to want to stay in this state until I am isolated, shamed, condemned and broke. I refuse to be as I need to be ready for if and when the children come back to me.
I fully acknowledge my imperfections and failings but I never expected to lose my children. I understand if people don't get where I am coming from and feel I am maybe not deserving of any sympathy. It is a long convoluted tale with many twists and turns. Thank you. I just wanted to share.
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Thank you both for your kind responses and advice. It really is appreciated. Great to feel I am not on my own.
 
Ash said:
Hi. Really sorry to hear your story. Can I ask how old your kids are now? Assume you didn't try any family court orders after separation? Also assume that your post means you don't get to see your kids at all - is that right? Or do you get to see them but they reject you and are angry?
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Hello, My kids are all older teenagers. I don't get to see them at all and have been reduced to a text message relationship with 2 of them and my eldest has completely blocked me and hasn't sent any messages since May. I didn't go down the court route as due to their age and what they would state as their preference it didn't seem a possible channel and if anything could further antagonise the situation.
 
Yes it is very difficult once they are teenagers as the court and Cafcass would say they can't force them - and with the time it takes, and the kids involvement, it could antagonise things when they have exams etc. They wouldn't make an order if a child was in their 15th year. 13? Possibly.

On the other hand - a court application shows the kids that you haven't given up on them and really want to see them. Now that depends on whether the ex is actively alienating them or not - ie if she would say something like - your Dad's taking me to court and cry etc. And turn them against you.

The best way is probably to try and resolve things with the ex as much as you can. Even if you have to act. Because the kids have "taken sides" - if you can get the ex onside, even a little bit, things might improve. You say she came over one day and made a scene or something. Maybe you could ask her to have a meet for a coffee to see how she and the boys are getting on? Might be a long shot! But if the route to your kids means getting on with the ex, then it's worth a try. Offering an olive branch or something.

Are they boys or girls or how many of each by the way? It would be a bit unusual if all of them felt the same - I bet the younger one misses you. Girls can sometimes align more with the Mother as teenagers, but not always.

There's a guy on here who had a similar situation but his kids were a bit younger and he lived at a distance. One child was adamant to Cafcass they wanted to come and stay with him (I think it was the youngest one). The eldest one didn't want to know, another one fluctuated. They thought he had abandoned them. Cafcass advised him to write a letter to the eldest, explaining things. I guess that could be worth a try. If you send it with a card. Maybe just say you weren't leaving him/her/them, but sometimes adult relationships don't work and people get divorced and have new partners - but that is between the adults and both parents can still love and support their children and you very much want to do that, and miss him very much - and if there is anything he wants to discuss with you or any questions he/she has, maybe he could meet you in the park for a walk to discuss. That you know their Mother is hurt and they feel protective, and you will try and improve communication with their Mother, if she wants to. You could say you are sorry that the marriage ended and you only hope that their Mother meets another partner who makes her happy, as yours makes you happy, but there is still a huge hole in your life as you miss them and want to continue to be a Father to them.

It might not work but if it gets read, it will show you care and are trying to sort something out. Maybe print an address label for the letter rather than handwrite it (you can do that via Royal Mail online) and just address it to the eldest but mention all the children in it. ie you're showing the eldest that you're giving them some responsibility to share it with the others.

Of course your ex might open it but you can hope. Before you send it, make a photocopy (handwrite it and photocopy the letter and card) then if one day they reach out or want to see you, you can prove you tried to contact them - in case they didn't know if ex destroyed the letter. Hopefully she isn't that bad. Do you send birthday cards and gifts? That might be one way through to the ex - suggest getting a large joint birthday gift for a teen birthday. Have you paid child maintenance since you left?

If nothing works, then all the while they are living at home you may not be able to get any contact - when they are older - eg left home or at university eg, then they may start thinking for themselves and reach out. The upshot is - they feel hurt and it sounds like the ex has painted a negative picture - saying you abandoned them and don't care. But teenagers are also hormonal and can be hurt all by themselves and they can also be black and white and stubborn. Rejection might make them feel in control of their lives - a protection against getting hurt. But they will think about you - so it's worth reaching out.
 
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Not going to lie, it sounds like you did bring this all on to yourself. What's done is done now. You say you were "deeply unhappy" to go and cheat, but how then could you be surprised your children wouldn't turn against you for doing that? Can't you see that was going to be the case, period?
 
That is a point. An affair can very much upset children (particularly if they see their Mother upset). However, parents are supposed to move on and put children first - your ex should be saying - he's still your Dad. You might have some talking to do though and even an apology to make.
 
Fellowshipper said:
Not going to lie, it sounds like you did bring this all on to yourself. What's done is done now. You say you were "deeply unhappy" to go and cheat, but how then could you be surprised your children wouldn't turn against you for doing that? Can't you see that was going to be the case, period?
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I think I acknowledge this fully in my post. I have been fully apologetic for the things I got horribly wrong. What I am struggling to cope with, is rather than seeing my kids heal and move forward, they are not being allowed to. They are being drip fed a poisonous narrative, over exposed to things that are of no concern to them. They have also been weaponised by their mum. I was seeing my daughter in the months after this all happened. Day trips, staying over at my house and coming on Christmas day. It seems wrong that we have moved backwards from this point where she now says that she wants nothing to do with me and never wants to see me again. All three of them have been pushed the narrative that I have abandoned them when nothing could be further from the truth.
 
Yes that is a nasty narrative saying they've abandoned you. It'll be things like "He left us". No - you left her, not the kids. Having said that, some alienation can be unconscious. If the kids see their Mother crying and upset and expressing herself about how hurt she is etc, they can align with one parent. Because they see her hurt. But - the ex is still supposed to put the kids first and say to them - he's your Father and you need both of us.

Maybe it;s hurt or maybe she is vengeful - we don't know. I've lost the thread a bit with this somewhat. Were you considering applying to court, or do you think the children are too old for that?
 
Welcome @Mrleicsfox
I think it's quite normal in the early days of a separation for kids (especially teenagers) to pick sides with the 'wronged' parent.
What isn't normal is when it drags on for years.
The parent who is left should rant to friends and leave the kids out of it.
From your kids point of view they probably don't see your exs issues of potentially mental health/personality disorder? Or whatever is wrong with her.
With their young brains they see hurt mum/abandoning dad. And trying to get them to see the truth is difficult. They won't fully appreciate what has happened until they are fully grown adults and they've had life experience. I think people expect a lot from kids and assume they see things from an adult perspective.
I think any court action with inflame an already difficult situation and won't go in your favour anyway.
Step back from the situation for a bit and give the ex and the kids some space.
I'd stop contacting the kids daily as they'll start becoming numb to your messages.
If you haven't already you could write to each child individually about how sorry you are for the family separating. Don't mention their mum at all in the letters. Tell them that no matter what happens you love them and will always be proud to be their dad.
Let the children process what has happened. Yes their mother is drip feeding poison but hopefully in time they can step back and get perspective and reach out to you.
 
Mrleicsfox said:
I think I acknowledge this fully in my post. I have been fully apologetic for the things I got horribly wrong. What I am struggling to cope with, is rather than seeing my kids heal and move forward, they are not being allowed to. They are being drip fed a poisonous narrative, over exposed to things that are of no concern to them. They have also been weaponised by their mum. I was seeing my daughter in the months after this all happened. Day trips, staying over at my house and coming on Christmas day. It seems wrong that we have moved backwards from this point where she now says that she wants nothing to do with me and never wants to see me again. All three of them have been pushed the narrative that I have abandoned them when nothing could be further from the truth.
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I might have missed the part where you said you had a fairly normal period after separation. It sounds like an aftershock sort of effect, in this case. I think there still ought to be a way for you to try to resolve the outstanding problems out of court though.
 
Peanut 21 said:
Welcome @Mrleicsfox
I think it's quite normal in the early days of a separation for kids (especially teenagers) to pick sides with the 'wronged' parent.
What isn't normal is when it drags on for years.
The parent who is left should rant to friends and leave the kids out of it.
From your kids point of view they probably don't see your exs issues of potentially mental health/personality disorder? Or whatever is wrong with her.
With their young brains they see hurt mum/abandoning dad. And trying to get them to see the truth is difficult. They won't fully appreciate what has happened until they are fully grown adults and they've had life experience. I think people expect a lot from kids and assume they see things from an adult perspective.
I think any court action with inflame an already difficult situation and won't go in your favour anyway.
Step back from the situation for a bit and give the ex and the kids some space.
I'd stop contacting the kids daily as they'll start becoming numb to your messages.
If you haven't already you could write to each child individually about how sorry you are for the family separating. Don't mention their mum at all in the letters. Tell them that no matter what happens you love them and will always be proud to be their dad.
Let the children process what has happened. Yes their mother is drip feeding poison but hopefully in time they can step back and get perspective and reach out to you.
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That is good advice from Peanut, and also an important point to remember not to mention their Mother. That will immediately make them defensive. Always important to never criticise the Mother as well - hence better not to mention her at all or you might inadvertently criticise her.

Children have very strong, inbuilt, loyalty to both parents. They feel conflicted if one parent criticizes the other and they feel like they are bad if one of their parents is seen to be bad. They will have their own inner conflicts as they're part of both parents and they know that.

If your ex has actually alienated them they are not themselves - their real selves are locked away inside. But what is maybe more likely is they can't handle the situation, and are trying to please the parent who provides for them. Children also have an innate sense of self protection - and don't want to defy the parent who keeps a roof over their heads and feeds them. They may well feel insecure that you left. So a letter sounds a good idea. Maybe run it by us before you send it?

If things were going ok straight after separation, was there a catalyst for it suddenly getting like this? Can you think of anything?

Ultimately, the problem is the ex - who is not saying - you need to see your Dad.
 
Ash said:
That is good advice from Peanut, and also an important point to remember not to mention their Mother. That will immediately make them defensive. Always important to never criticise the Mother as well - hence better not to mention her at all or you might inadvertently criticise her.

Children have very strong, inbuilt, loyalty to both parents. They feel conflicted if one parent criticizes the other and they feel like they are bad if one of their parents is seen to be bad. They will have their own inner conflicts as they're part of both parents and they know that.

If your ex has actually alienated them they are not themselves - their real selves are locked away inside. But what is maybe more likely is they can't handle the situation, and are trying to please the parent who provides for them. Children also have an innate sense of self protection - and don't want to defy the parent who keeps a roof over their heads and feeds them. They may well feel insecure that you left. So a letter sounds a good idea. Maybe run it by us before you send it?

If things were going ok straight after separation, was there a catalyst for it suddenly getting like this? Can you think of anything?

Ultimately, the problem is the ex - who is not saying - you need to see your Dad.
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I dont know if this is allowed byt can the letter be sent through the school if you think ex will intercept the letter?
 
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