Mum wants to move kids away and change their school

[123ABC]

Hi,

I have three kids (7 5 and 2)

Family based arrangement. The eldest two kids spend the majority of the time with me (4 nights) and the youngest with mum (5 nights). That's how it seems to work best currently. I live next door to the kids school and the youngest goes to nursery where mum works.

Their mum has told me today that she is intending to move in with her partner and will be taking the kids with her. This is about 20 miles away so they would need to move schools - she has told me the one she has in mind. I also don't drive (we both work full time).

I've looked online and it seems that a parent can't move a kid to a different school unilaterally - does this work in reality though?

I'm fairly committed to where I live currently. I have bought a house here purposely as it's located within 5 minutes of the primary and secondary schools which we had intended for the kids to attend. I currently do 8 of the 10 schools runs each week. I take the kids to swimming lessons after school also and I am very active in all aspects of their upbringing.

We've never been through any mediation or courts for the kids.

The kids are registered at their mum's address when it comes to the GP, dentist, schools, child benefit.

Where do I stand here? I don't want my eldest two kids to move schools and I want a say on where the youngest goes to school too.

I'm not sure whether to just carry on as I am and try not too cause any disturbance to the kids or whether I should be trying to go down a more legal route (i.e. mediation).

I also don't know if it's worth trying to claim child benefit for one of the kids - could that help if successful. And would I have any chance of being successful.

Generally speaking, the other parent has always had her own way and I never really manage to voice my opinion. I wouldn't try to spite the other parent but I don't think the kids should be moved away from me in this situation.

 

[proud_dad]

If you have a strong case why the kids shouldn't move, or more precisely a change of school will harm their welfare, then apply for a specific issue order. First you will need to get a mediator to sign off that mediation won't work.

Your case will need to demonstrate that a move is not in the best interest of the kids, using the family court welfare checklist as your guide. The more evidence you have that demonstrates that the kids are happy with their current school, circle of friends, clubs, homelife, the better.

 

[Ash]

I think it needs prohibited steps as well as specific issues. Prohibited steps order to prevent the Mother moving the children (at least the eldest two). There is no reason they can't still spend four nights a week with you and their Mother travel 20 miles to pick them up the other nights, although it might need a change of schedule. Does she drive?

With the history you seem to have a reasonable strong case, but a court will not prevent a Mother moving 20 miles away to live with a partner. But they can decide whether they stay at the same school or move schools. With the youngest one I can't see them stop your ex moving that child due to their age and being at nursery. Is it possible to do the journey by train?

How amicable are you? Assume you were either married or your name is on the birth certificates (or both) - in which case you both have parental responsibility and she isn't supposed to just change the schools without your consent. But the reality is, Mothers do it all the time and once it's done it's done. They might get tutted at afterwards but there's no real punishment.

The difficulty might be the urgency. If you had mediation she might have already done all the moves by then. Do you happen to know when she's planning to move and change the schools? Over the Christmas holidays? Also it's possible she might tell you one thing and do something else maybe?

It sounds like you've already discussed things so I'd be inclined to put in an urgent application - for prohibited steps and specific issues you can do an urgent application if a move might be imminent (that's a 48 hour application). There is still opportunity for agreement at a hearing. However court proceedings cost money, especially if you want the best outcome, it usually means paying for a barrister.

When you say "whether to just carry on" do you mean just accept she's moving them to new schools and living 20 miles further away? And do travel by train? That is one option - but I think things will change once she's moved and has a new life with her partner - she's effectively making herself the resident Mother and parent with care (where as currently you have a fairly equal shared care arrangement). So you really want that formalising as well. Do you think she's likely to agree to a consent order over arrangements (that's a court order without going to court but you do need a solicitor for a one off job to draw up the order).

I don't envy you these decisions. 20 miles isn't that far but - you don't drive.

So on the one hand I would maybe want to try to get an order to say the kids remain at their current schools and live with you on the same days as before, and she travels to collect them on her days. With you travelling to collect the youngest one on your days. Or shared travel.

That is more likely to protect your relationships for the future and formalise the current shared care.

I wouldn't worry about the child benefits too much right now as there are bigger things to deal with. But it can only be paid to one parent - unless your ex agrees that it can be paid to you for one child. It would only be done if she agrees though unfortunately.

Anyway the upshot is - I don;t think she will agree to what you want at mediation as she's already said she plans to move them to different schools. That shows her mindset - that she has self designated herself the main/resident parent now she's moving in with a partner and you come last.

If you're prepared to pay barrister fees of a few thousand I would put in a C100 for urgent specific issues and prohibited steps orders and also Child Arrangements on the same application, stating you want to formalise the existing arrangement.

You could do it yourself but if your ex has a lawyer she is more likely to get what she wants. You could put the application in yourself (we can help) and wait and see if she uses a lawyer and if it's a 48 hour hearing there won't be much time to find one anyway.

If the application is worded with the right tone it shouldn't make her too angry.'

I had a similar situation when I already had a shared care order. My ex announcing she was moving 30 miles away and moving my son to another school. And that was when I already had a Child Arrangements order for lives with both parents. I applied for prohibited steps but it turned out she didn't have major plans to move and backed down once it went to court. The difference being, your ex isn't going to change her plans if she's moving in with a partner.

It isn't just the distance and the travel - it's a whole new life - they will be living with Mum and Stepdad and at new schools and away from all the current familiarity - you'll become a part time Dad. So I do think you need the child arrangements formalising whatever happens, or you could lose them in the long term.

What has she said about the current arrangements, with her move?

Anyway it's form C100. For all three - prohibited steps, specific issues (which is re education in this case) and Child Arrangements. You're supposed to be signed off mediation unless it's an urgent application. So do you have a date?

 

[123ABC]

If you have a strong case why the kids shouldn't move, or more precisely a change of school will harm their welfare, then apply for a specific issue order. First you will need to get a mediator to sign off that mediation won't work.

Your case will need to demonstrate that a move is not in the best interest of the kids, using the family court welfare checklist as your guide. The more evidence you have that demonstrates that the kids are happy with their current school, circle of friends, clubs, homelife, the better.

Thank you for taking the time to respond.

My current situation is I work six days per week (Sunday off). Three half days (09:30-14:30) and three full days.

I take them to school each morning. Collect them three times out of five. I collect them again as soon as I finish on a Saturday.

I have the youngest less currently but I've tried my best to figure out a situation with my work to enable me to be as available as I can be for all the kids longer term (i.e. working mainly during school hours).

I take them to swimming lessons each week and have done since 2021. I've taken them to other clubs in the past (football, karate). They haven't ever done any of this with their mum.

We have a good time at home and I do my best to teach them things (i.e. I've taught my eldest how to play chess and middle one how to ride a bike recently). I could write a long list of good things do together.

A lot evidence I have is probably just descriptive but if they were to lose their connection to this area, I think they could lose out on this.

The move will be a shock for the kids. Their mum's new partner also has 2 kids (slightly older) and it sounds like a similar arrangement. If they stayed at the same school and retained the nights here, then I imagine they'd at least be retaining some familiarity.

The area where their mum plans to move to is isolated so it would be hard for me to reach without a car. It's a train and a non-frequent bus I think.

I will look at the checklist you mentioned, thank you.

I might try to make mediation happen as my ex is outspoken and I've always struggled to share my thoughts regarding the kids - I do believe that my arguments are very valid.
Although, I don't want to risk creating a rift and making the situation appear less workable for my ex if she is trying to do the right thing in her mind. I also don't want to regret doing nothing if they slip away.

I don't know if a move away would harm their welfare but I imagine there are detrimental impacts of being moved away from a parent on a day-to-day basis. They may end up in wraparound care at a school for example instead of spending time in my home. Their mum doesn't actually take them to school currently, even when she is off work as she stays at her partner's. I don't think she's actually taken them since Easter apart from the odd day and the school knows this.

 

[123ABC]

I think it needs prohibited steps as well as specific issues. Prohibited steps order to prevent the Mother moving the children (at least the eldest two). There is no reason they can't still spend four nights a week with you and their Mother travel 20 miles to pick them up the other nights, although it might need a change of schedule. Does she drive?

She drives yes. It isn't a long drive between the two locations. 20 minutes outside of rush hour. I think that is a good idea to focus on that and work everything around it if successful. It would allow the kids to retain continuity at school and outside of it with clubs and parenting.

With the history you seem to have a reasonable strong case, but a court will not prevent a Mother moving 20 miles away to live with a partner. But they can decide whether they stay at the same school or move schools. With the youngest one I can't see them stop your ex moving that child due to their age and being at nursery. Is it possible to do the journey by train?

It's hard by public transport as you have to go via a town centre and it's a bit on the outskirts. I found out about this last night so it was a bit of a surprise (not too much but in the moment it felt like it). I don't object the kids being moved 20 miles away but I think they need to retain a connection with both parents. If they retain the same school, they'll also be able to keep going to their swimming lessons too. My house is by a big sports centre and they've done things there too over the years - all the staff know them there.

How amicable are you? Assume you were either married or your name is on the birth certificates (or both) - in which case you both have parental responsibility and she isn't supposed to just change the schools without your consent. But the reality is, Mothers do it all the time and once it's done it's done. They might get tutted at afterwards but there's no real punishment.

I'm on all birth certificates. I don't think my ex respects my right to have a say though. She has told me the name of the school so I could contact them myself preemptively and tell them I don't consent. Whether that's wise or not, I don't know.

The difficulty might be the urgency. If you had mediation she might have already done all the moves by then. Do you happen to know when she's planning to move and change the schools? Over the Christmas holidays? Also it's possible she might tell you one thing and do something else maybe?

I don't think it's that imminent but she probably wouldn't tell me if it was.

It sounds like you've already discussed things so I'd be inclined to put in an urgent application - for prohibited steps and specific issues you can do an urgent application if a move might be imminent (that's a 48 hour application). There is still opportunity for agreement at a hearing. However court proceedings cost money, especially if you want the best outcome, it usually means paying for a barrister.

Thanks. If I were to do that but it turned out to be a plan for September - could an outcome still prevent changes of schools further in the future too?

When you say "whether to just carry on" do you mean just accept she's moving them to new schools and living 20 miles further away? And do travel by train? That is one option - but I think things will change once she's moved and has a new life with her partner - she's effectively making herself the resident Mother and parent with care (where as currently you have a fairly equal shared care arrangement). So you really want that formalising as well. Do you think she's likely to agree to a consent order over arrangements (that's a court order without going to court but you do need a solicitor for a one off job to draw up the order).

I just don't want to throw smoke on the fire and make my ex say 'fuck it' and just move the kids away without thinking it through.

I do find the situation stressful though, I lose sleep at night worrying about the kids being moved away so I probably do need to try and get something in place.

I think she may agree to having a written order for the formality of it. Whether the contents could be agreed upon, I'm less sure.

I don't envy you these decisions. 20 miles isn't that far but - you don't drive.

So on the one hand I would maybe want to try to get an order to say the kids remain at their current schools and live with you on the same days as before, and she travels to collect them on her days. With you travelling to collect the youngest one on your days. Or shared travel.

It's hard as I try to think from the kids perspective. At the moment they stay at mine the majority of the time and only have to walk about 500m to school. If they stay at this school though, they will end up being whizzed about a lot between the two towns.

That is more likely to protect your relationships for the future and formalise the current shared care.

I wouldn't worry about the child benefits too much right now as there are bigger things to deal with. But it can only be paid to one parent - unless your ex agrees that it can be paid to you for one child. It would only be done if she agrees though unfortunately.

Anyway the upshot is - I don;t think she will agree to what you want at mediation as she's already said she plans to move them to different schools. That shows her mindset - that she has self designated herself the main/resident parent now she's moving in with a partner and you come last.

The last paragraph. It's hard to explain but the way this is being gone about does feel wrong to me. I do a lot for the kids and it shouldn't just be taken from them.

If you're prepared to pay barrister fees of a few thousand I would put in a C100 for urgent specific issues and prohibited steps orders and also Child Arrangements on the same application, stating you want to formalise the existing arrangement.

You could do it yourself but if your ex has a lawyer she is more likely to get what she wants. You could put the application in yourself (we can help) and wait and see if she uses a lawyer and if it's a 48 hour hearing there won't be much time to find one anyway.

If the application is worded with the right tone it shouldn't make her too angry.'

Thanks, I think I might try to attempt mediation. I probably need to figure out on the timescales of it. If she refuses, I presume that could speed it up and may help me with asking for a prohibited steps order.

I accept it may be costly to fight to keep the kids where they are. I do have to weigh up the costs as part of my decision. I think I read mediation can cost £600-1200. The C100 form is a few hundred pounds I think plus any costs with having help filling it in. I'm not experienced in any court type situations so I'm probably quite naive about this side of things. This may be what's slowing me down when it comes to acting and what made me think to find a forum like this. Thank you for helping to break things down for me.

I had a similar situation when I already had a shared care order. My ex announcing she was moving 30 miles away and moving my son to another school. And that was when I already had a Child Arrangements order for lives with both parents. I applied for prohibited steps but it turned out she didn't have major plans to move and backed down once it went to court. The difference being, your ex isn't going to change her plans if she's moving in with a partner.

It isn't just the distance and the travel - it's a whole new life - they will be living with Mum and Stepdad and at new schools and away from all the current familiarity - you'll become a part time Dad. So I do think you need the child arrangements formalising whatever happens, or you could lose them in the long term.

What has she said about the current arrangements, with her move?

She just mentioned about moving the schools. She didn't really refer to anything involving me.

Anyway it's form C100. For all three - prohibited steps, specific issues (which is re education in this case) and Child Arrangements. You're supposed to be signed off mediation unless it's an urgent application. So do you have a date?

I'll look more into this form.

I don't have a date. I've referred to this sort of earlier but I presume applications to move two kids to a new school take a bit of time. I wonder if the school would have to declare to me that there is an application in progress if I asked them about it seeing as I legally should have to consent to it. This school is under a separate council to the current one.

 

[Ash]

That will all change if she moves and she will be doing the care, not you. When you say she is outspoken, how do you mean. You have to be a bit careful, as if you start mediation, she may guess you're thinking of applying to court and pre-empt you by putting her own application in for a specific issues order for the move. Which might wrongfoot you and then you'd be on the defensive.

Is there a reason you don't drive? (Apart from the cost of running a car). Do you have a licence and have you ever driven before?

I think if you do want to try mediation, it's advisable to have a C100 application fully completed and ready to go, before going to the first mediation session with the ex. So if she delays/refuses/doesn't turn up you can just send it off asap - although you do need the mediation sign off first.

I think while you're in the comfortable, familiar routine, it's going to be difficult to imagine what it would feel like if everything changes - but if you imagine that it might make you feel more strongly about getting something ordered.

Once she changes things you have no power - if she refuses to do reasonable arrangements for you, then the only recourse is court. Unfortunately people can become quite selfish once they want to move on and start a new life with a new blended family.

If you did do an urgent application for the PSO and SIO you could put on it. Awaiting mediation certificate - if you've had the MIAM - rather than wait for it.

 

[123ABC]

That will all change if she moves and she will be doing the care, not you. When you say she is outspoken, how do you mean. You have to be a bit careful, as if you start mediation, she may guess you're thinking of applying to court and pre-empt you by putting her own application in for a specific issues order for the move. Which might wrongfoot you and then you'd be on the defensive.

I think I basically mean she isn't willing to listen to my point of view.

Is there a reason you don't drive? (Apart from the cost of running a car). Do you have a licence and have you ever driven before?

I've never driven.

I think if you do want to try mediation, it's advisable to have a C100 application fully completed and ready to go, before going to the first mediation session with the ex. So if she delays/refuses/doesn't turn up you can just send it off asap - although you do need the mediation sign off first.

Thanks for the advice.
Does an urgent application by step the need for mediation then? I imagine it's not that simple though as the court will wonder why I haven't attempted it.

I think while you're in the comfortable, familiar routine, it's going to be difficult to imagine what it would feel like if everything changes - but if you imagine that it might make you feel more strongly about getting something ordered.

Thanks, I appreciate this perspective.

Once she changes things you have no power - if she refuses to do reasonable arrangements for you, then the only recourse is court. Unfortunately people can become quite selfish once they want to move on and start a new life with a new blended family.

If you did do an urgent application for the PSO and SIO you could put on it. Awaiting mediation certificate - if you've had the MIAM - rather than wait for it.

Thanks for helping me understand my options.

Basically, I should prepare a C100 regardless but I could either try MIAM (which may work) and then apply for a PSO afterwards.

Alternatively, I could make an urgent application although I imagine requirements for that are harder.

 

[Ash]

I think I basically mean she isn't willing to listen to my point of view.

Which is a red flag. And mediation is not likely to achieve anything. She can just say no.

I've never driven.

You could consider learning to drive maybe - I know there are costs involved but at some point you would have to either drop off or pick up at ex's if she moves. She isn't going to do all the travel.

Does an urgent application by step the need for mediation then? I imagine it's not that simple though as the court will wonder why I haven't attempted it.

An urgent application is when the matter is urgent - like the PSO - ie she could move at any time so it warrants asking for a 48 hour notice hearing. So with that kind of urgency you technically don't need to have had a MIAM. However, it can be helpful to have had a MIAM (you can sometimes get one at 24 hours notice) even if you don't actually proceed with mediation. Just to make sure the application is accepted - particularly as you'd be applying for more than just the PSO on it. The MIAM is the first mediation appointment you attend on your own - the legal requirement is to have had a MIAM - mediation itself isn't a legal requirement before an application (although I think it's being piloted in some areas). Your ex doesn't even need to know you've attended a MIAM if you just go and ask to be signed off. It's "Mediation,Information and Assessment meeting". Where the mediator hears your side of things, tells you how mediation can help, maybe checks financial things to see if you're eligibile for legal ald. Then asks if you want them to invite the ex to the next mediation session.

So you can have a MIAM and ask to be signed off mediation. If you agree to have the ex invited to mediation, then they can't give you a sign off. It means weighing up the situation.

But technically you could put in the application without a MIAM as it's an urgent situation - the kids being moved.

If she is moving in with a partner, that could be any day now couldn't it? Ex's tend to time these things for the start of a new school term.

If in doubt - put in an urgent PSO - because once she's moved and the kids have been moved with her, it's unlikely you'll get them moved back.

 

[Femto]

Ash's advice looks pretty spot on (as ever), but to add a few points;

- Contact the kid's current school and let them know that you believe there is a risk of their mother removing them without your consent and ask that they keep you informed of any such move.

- Contact the potential new school and inform them that the any application is being made without your consent and that as you have parental responsibility (PR) any such change requires your agreement. This should prevent them processing any application without at least contacting you as that would result in your PR being neglected.

Both schools should respect you requests and given the circumstances they shouldn't inform your ex that you have made contact.

From what you have described of your ex I'd be very wary of mediation- she sounds very controlling. If you do choose to try mediation, use a 'solicitor mediator' - they have proper legal training and should know the legal situation about PR and relocation. Explain in the MIAM your concerns about her actions and they may well advise that mediation isn't suitable and direct you to court.
Many 'family mediators' have absolutely no legal training and just want to have 'a nice friendly chat'.... beware!

 

[123ABC]

Which is a red flag. And mediation is not likely to achieve anything. She can just say no.

Yeah, we're both happy to share the care equally but when it comes to schooling we won't agree as she is going to change area.

I think it would be better for them to continue at school here as:
- they're here already so it minimises change
- they have other commitments here which work around school (sports clubs)
- my working hours work well with the school runs which benefits all the kids
- my ex could realistically drive to pick them up where as I don't drive. It's a 20 minute drive between the areas but not feasible by public transport as it's isolated and in a different borough (takes several changes and over an hour)

You could consider learning to drive maybe - I know there are costs involved but at some point you would have to either drop off or pick up at ex's if she moves. She isn't going to do all the travel.

I had a retinal tear some years ago and have suffered quite badly from glare since then - it's worst in places like car parks in the summer due to the sun reflecting off glass and metal - I have a lot of eye floaters (which cause the glare) and if I look at the reflection of the sun they can become illuminous. I had driving lessons booked at the time but cancelled them due to this. It's a bit of a weird one as I've avoided learning due to this as I'm not sure I'd be completely safe .

An urgent application is when the matter is urgent - like the PSO - ie she could move at any time so it warrants asking for a 48 hour notice hearing. So with that kind of urgency you technically don't need to have had a MIAM. However, it can be helpful to have had a MIAM (you can sometimes get one at 24 hours notice) even if you don't actually proceed with mediation. Just to make sure the application is accepted - particularly as you'd be applying for more than just the PSO on it. The MIAM is the first mediation appointment you attend on your own - the legal requirement is to have had a MIAM - mediation itself isn't a legal requirement before an application (although I think it's being piloted in some areas). Your ex doesn't even need to know you've attended a MIAM if you just go and ask to be signed off. It's "Mediation,Information and Assessment meeting". Where the mediator hears your side of things, tells you how mediation can help, maybe checks financial things to see if you're eligibile for legal ald. Then asks if you want them to invite the ex to the next mediation session.

So you can have a MIAM and ask to be signed off mediation. If you agree to have the ex invited to mediation, then they can't give you a sign off. It means weighing up the situation.

But technically you could put in the application without a MIAM as it's an urgent situation - the kids being moved.

I've been in contact with the local councils admissions teams about this and they have both told me that where they are aware of a parental dispute that they will not process a school transfer for a child without the consent of both parents. They've been closed over Christmas so I'm still making further enquiries with them both. I trust this more within the current council area though as the kids are properly in file.

If she is moving in with a partner, that could be any day now couldn't it? Ex's tend to time these things for the start of a new school term.

If in doubt - put in an urgent PSO - because once she's moved and the kids have been moved with her, it's unlikely you'll get them moved back.

I just want to say thank you again for all your help.

The council admissions teams were quite receptive and I'm also arranging to visit the school that my ex has told me she wants to move the kids too. I will make them aware of the situation when I visit. My stance is I'm against all moves until the youngest is due to start school in 18 months. My stance likely won't change but I think it's fair to see what would be best for the kids once she has actually moved.

I will look at getting signed off (only sign off so the ex doesn't know) for MIAM to help with PSO if I decide to go down that route.

It's a tricky balance of uncertainty. I still have more questions for the council admissions team where my ex will move to but if I'm confident enough that they will not process a transfer without my consent then I may be happy at that point. If I don't have faith in them, then it may prompt me to move quickly.

The other things I have to weigh up are costs and pissing off the ex. I guess if I get the PSO then it shouldn't matter too much because she will have to then accept it.

 

[123ABC]

Ash's advice looks pretty spot on (as ever), but to add a few points;

- Contact the kid's current school and let them know that you believe there is a risk of their mother removing them without your consent and ask that they keep you informed of any such move.

Thank you for this advice. I've not informed the current school as they may tell Mum but the council admissions team have now added a note on my kids file (this only helps for moved within this council area though and my ex is moving to another).

- Contact the potential new school and inform them that the any application is being made without your consent and that as you have parental responsibility (PR) any such change requires your agreement. This should prevent them processing any application without at least contacting you as that would result in your PR being neglected.

Both schools should respect you requests and given the circumstances they shouldn't inform your ex that you have made contact.

I'm hoping when I visit the school that I can explain the situation. I think it sounds like a nice school by the way and all else being equal, wouldn't mind my kids attending. Of course, the problem is all else would not be equal.

From what you have described of your ex I'd be very wary of mediation- she sounds very controlling. If you do choose to try mediation, use a 'solicitor mediator' - they have proper legal training and should know the legal situation about PR and relocation. Explain in the MIAM your concerns about her actions and they may well advise that mediation isn't suitable and direct you to court.
Many 'family mediators' have absolutely no legal training and just want to have 'a nice friendly chat'.... beware!

Thank you for this advice.

As my fears seem to be around the one aspect we won't agree on, I'm only considering being signed off for MIAM now.
If I had a chat with my ex via MIAM, I don't think it would prevent her from trying to change the kids schools without my consent if she wants to do that.

I've told her I'm against them moving until September 2026 but I don't want to tip her off about other steps I'm taking to try and prevent it.

It's a lot of stress for protecting something which is my right to exercise my parental responsibility with regards to school choices . If the school stays the same, I don't see too much issue in agreeing fair arrangements.

If it changes though then I'd realistically have to make big changes to avoid losing a lot of access to the kids.
I.e. selling home and changing job. I guess that's something to weigh up against costs and stresses now - is it better now or then, or just to hope the school move doesn't materialise.

Thank you again for the insightful response. Besides from any technical advice, it's really helpful just to hear fresh and honest perspectives on a situation which can put you in a bit of a spin.