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Mum Taking Child Abroad for 3 Months

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Hi all. I’m new here and really want some advice please. Going out of my mind a little.

So my 9 year-old son lives with my ex and her partner.

Firstly, about 18 months ago she decided to pull him out of school to homeschool him, without my permission.

Towards the end of last year, she took him away to xxxxx non european country abroad (where she claims he’s “world-schooled”). The plan was to go for 4 weeks. The day before they were due back, she asked if they could book more flights to go elsewhere for 3 weeks. I said I wasn’t happy with that. 5 minutes later I get a text saying “it’s booked”. This is the kind of level of disregard I’m shown regularly.

Anyway… now she’s decided they want to go away for 3 months. I said I’m not happy with that. She said “it’s 100% happening”. She said our son could stay with me for the 3 months but will not be going to school. I said that’s not possible as me and my partner both work full-time, as she knows. I’m more than happy for him to live with us full-time, but he would have to go to school.
Now it transpires that the plan is to go away for 3 months out of every 4 months going forward.

I need to know my rights. Can anybody advise please?
 
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Good morning

I believe answers to these questions would help people advise:

How much time did he have with you before he was taken out of school?

How much time with you after home schooling started but before the travel?

Do you have a Child Arrangement Order?
 
He’s with me basically 3 nights a fortnight. This hasn’t changed since he was taken out of school.
I have no Child Arrangement Order
 
DadJon33 said:
Hi all. I’m new here and really want some advice please. Going out of my mind a little.

So my 9 year-old son lives with my ex and her partner.

Firstly, about 18 months ago she decided to pull him out of school to homeschool him, without my permission.

Towards the end of last year, she took him away to Thailand (where she claims he’s “world-schooled”). The plan was to go for 4 weeks. The day before they were due back, she asked if they could book more flights to go elsewhere for 3 weeks. I said I wasn’t happy with that. 5 minutes later I get a text saying “it’s booked”. This is the kind of level of disregard I’m shown regularly.

Anyway… now she’s decided they want to go away for 3 months. I said I’m not happy with that. She said “it’s 100% happening”. She said our son could stay with me for the 3 months but will not be going to school. I said that’s not possible as me and my partner both work full-time, as she knows. I’m more than happy for him to live with us full-time, but he would have to go to school.
Now it transpires that the plan is to go away for 3 months out of every 4 months going forward.

I need to know my rights. Can anybody advise please?
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Prohibited steps order to prevent her taking the child out of the country. 3 months is too long for a child to be away from you especially as it's not a once off. If you need a cao then c100 form. Seek legal advice but I'm sure Prohibited steps stops her from leaving with the child
 
Without a court order in place she cannot (legally) take your son out of the country without your permission - assuming you have parental responsibility (ie you're on his birth certificate).
Clearly you can state that you don't give your permission, but it sounds like she'll just ignore that. A prohibited steps order would reinforce your position and should get her stopped if she tried.
Form C100 to apply, ask for urgent hearing if her departure is imminent.
 
It sounds like she is not planning to take the child out of the country for three months though - she's planning to leave him with DadM

However if this is going to be a regular thing, then she might be considering leaving the country permanently at some point. And then she might well want to take your son with her.

So a prohibited steps order could be the way to go. This doesn't prevent her leaving the country, it prevents her removing the child from the country for more than 28 days or without your consent or the court's consent. On the same form you could apply for a specific issues order over schooling and also a child arrangements order to formalise the arrangements.

How you word the application needs to be very careful, as she will read it and you don't want to create hostility.

On the other hand you have a good informal arrangement of 3 days a week and she is happy leaving the child with you for three months - so it's tricky - you don't want her witholding your son if she is annoyed about a court application.

One option could be to just accept him coming to you for three months and enrol him in school. That's not ideal though if she then takes him out of school again as his education would be all over the place.

Do you think she maybe is doing this to find an excuse to take your son abroad for three months, knowing you'll refuse to have him because you can't home school him? A bit of manipulation?

So I do think it's worth applying to court. The whole lot ties together - specific issues for schooling and prohibited steps for preventing him being moved out of the country or being abroad for more than a month.

Now both specific issues (SIO) and Prohibited steps (PSO) can be done as urgent applications - you could get this sorted very quickly. A Child Arrangements order would be a slightly longer process but it's important to get it done at the same time in my view, so there are formal agreements and to ensure she gets your consent in future.

So you would complete a C100 form for specific issues order re schooling, PSO to prevent the child from being removed from the jurisdiction and Child Arrangements order, to formalise the care arrangements.

I am happy to help you complete it.
 
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What you could ask for is for the child to be enrolled in school because the Mother is going abroad for 3 months and proposes leaving the child with you but you had not agreed to home schooling and are unable to home school him as you work. And you are informed this is going to be a regular thing - 3 months abroad every few months. Additionally a prohibited steps order to prevent the child from being removed from the jurisdiction or being abroad on holiday for more than a month - as has happened previously. And a Child Arrangements order to formalise the existing shared care 3 days a week with you, with agreements regarding holidays.
 
Ash said:
Do you think she maybe is doing this to find an excuse to take your son abroad for three months, knowing you'll refuse to have him because you can't home school him? A bit of manipulation?
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This is what’s happening, yes. She knows full well we both work full-time so he would not be able to stay with me for a full month and not attend school. Her position is that “he will not” go to school. Partly because she won’t allow it and partly because she has manipulated him into hating the idea of proper schooling.
 
Ok so her plan is actually to take him with her. So you need to apply for an urgent PSO and SIO over schooling. Education is an important part of PR and if parents don't agree on schooling, the court will decide. And under the circumstances I can't see them finding in her favour. She may argue he hates school - so you'd have to propose the right kind of school and say that if the Mother intends to spend long periods abroad, it's important he has school anyway.

Do you live fairly near each other or at a distance? A school would need to be accessible from both homes as well. If the court finds in your favour she will have to let him go to school.

I would be very concerned that she intends to move abroad permanently with him.

When is this proposed three months abroad? Imminently? If so you can ask for a 48 hour hearing. ie 2 days notice. You'd get the PSO straight away and then there would be a follow up hearing a couple of weeks later to see if it should remain in place (which it probably will).

She then has to choose. Either she remains in the Uk to do the home schooling, or she goes abroad and your SIO allows for him to go to school.

So at the moment, if he's with you three days a week, does that mean he is only home schooled at ex's 3 days a week?

What is your 3 day a week pattern? Mostly week-ends?
 
We live 30 mins apart. The school he was at previously was 5 mins from where he lives with his mum. It was a great school and he was perfectly happy there.

He is with me at weekends and I refused to play any part in home schooling when it was introduced against my will.

Thanks for all the advice, it’s a great help.
 
So is that Friday to Monday every week? Normally a court would expect alternate week-ends and half the school holidays with each parent. This may be another reason your ex decided to do home schooling - to avoid the school holiday periods - which isn't good for your son either. Do you get holidays with him at all?

One difficulty might be that he has been home schooled for 18 months now and they might see it that you have agreed to this because you didn't apply to court over the education matter. Even though you didn't agree, in court terms, if something carries on for a while without a formal objection then it's seen as having been agreed to. However this is an age where schooling is important, in the run up to GCSE's and there is that argument.
 
Sorry, just to clarify… he’s with me alternate weekends. Extra time with me during holidays / summer. Was with me over Christmas for over a week for example. That aspect of our relationship has always been great to be honest.

Unfortunately you’re right. I never went down the legal route regarding homeschooling. I trusted to some extent that he was getting what he needed from his mother. The going abroad for prolonged periods is much more of a concern right now. Unfortunately it’s compounded by the homeschooling, as I can’t have him with me full-time if she wants to travel without him.
 
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Sounds like it might all have been a bit pre-planned. Home school first then the overseas trips .........

So if it's every other week-end, how is it 3 days a week? Do you get a midweek night as well?

It's pretty standard to have half the school holidays - about 6.5 weeks each a year. Split half terms, about a week at Easter and Christmas and a 1 week and 2 week block in the summer. Or 3 weeks each in the summer. The courts would never normally order more than 3 weeks away from a parent, although the legal limit is up to a month abroad - if agreed between parents.

That aspect of our relationship has always been great to be honest.
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Do you mean that aspect with ex? Yes that's what I mean - you're getting plenty of time - but on the other hand neither do you want that to change.

Maybe you could try dropping her a message first (something in writing) along the lines of

"I can't agree to xxxxx leaving the country for three months at a time, and didn't agree to him being home schooled. If you wish him to stay with me for three months while you're abroad, we need to agree that he goes back to school, and will need to find the right school that he will enjoy. I suggest xxxxxxxx school. He's coming up to GCSE's in a couple of years and I think he really needs a stable school education now. Please let me know if this can be agreed."

Because it always helps an application if you can show you've tried to resolve it in writing first.
 
It’s 3 days a fortnight, not a week.

I’ll politely send something in writing. Once an idea’s in her head though she’s impossible to reason with
 
I'd be tempted to play along with the idea, give the impression of being ready to home school, the enrol in a school during time with me. C100 would then be with statis quo that he lives with you and attends a good local school.
 
I can see that too Resolute, but it might put the child in the middle and he could be criticized for that,. A 9 year old is going to talk to his Mum.

Ok so 3 days a fortnight, every other week-end, is pretty much minimal time and wouldn't be classed as shared care. Would you want more than that? Eg a midweek overnight?
 
I’d be happy with more time. It is difficult with work commitments though. By the time I’ve picked him up after and brought him to mine, it’s almost bedtime and he has to go back first thing in the morning.

As mentioned, if she wants to travel long-term, I’d love full custody. But he’d be going to school
 
It might be best to approach this as two distinct issues;

1) taking your son abroad for extended periods- at present your ex *cannot* legally take him out of the country without the permission of all who have parental responsibility. But she may try and us unlikely to be stopped. If you applied for a 'prohibited steps order' you could have the court's support in preventing her. She might argue that this opportunity is in the child's best interests, but a judge would be highly unlikely to consider such a long time away from the other parent and the impact on that relationship to be in his interests.

2) school-
Decisions about how a child is educated require the agreement of all with PR. If you can't agree then the court can intervene via a 'specific issue order'. The assumption is that children attended mainstream school unless there is a very compelling reason, so again a judge is likely to back your position unless the status quo goes on too long.

It really sounds like you need a child arrangements order to formalise your time with your son. This would go further to protect you from your ex's bonkers ideas.
 
Femto said:
It might be best to approach this as two distinct issues;

1) taking your son abroad for extended periods- at present your ex *cannot* legally take him out of the country without the permission of all who have parental responsibility. But she may try and us unlikely to be stopped. If you applied for a 'prohibited steps order' you could have the court's support in preventing her. She might argue that this opportunity is in the child's best interests, but a judge would be highly unlikely to consider such a long time away from the other parent and the impact on that relationship to be in his interests.

2) school-
Decisions about how a child is educated require the agreement of all with PR. If you can't agree then the court can intervene via a 'specific issue order'. The assumption is that children attended mainstream school unless there is a very compelling reason, so again a judge is likely to back your position unless the status quo goes on too long.

It really sounds like you need a child arrangements order to formalise your time with your son. This would go further to protect you from your ex's bonkers ideas.
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Thank you. I’m getting legal advice tomorrow and will most likely go for a PSO to at least stop her taking him away.
 
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I think Ash makes some valid points as per usual.

I would take up the 3 months of having him with you and this will work out one of two ways, it happens or excuses come.

In any event whichever way it goes, I’d file the C100 looking to have him full time, a court is not likely to find the situation of no education and bouncing round every 3 months to be in his best interest.
I think she will find it very hard to defend that position, and if he is with you for those 3 months she’s not going to be in a position to withhold contact.

PSO may be a good idea to set the boundary out. But that might put a spanner in the works of accepting having him for the 3 months.

Bottom line here tho, you need a CAO in place to cement your time and then bolt on the schooling imo.
 
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