Mesher Orders

[Unknown01]

Mesher Orders are still relatively common by consent but are exceptionally rare as a court order. If someone doesn't want a Mesher Order the courts don't like to impose them because there is such high potential for further litigation. They will only use such orders as an absolute last resort if the resident parent has no other options to house themselves.

Incidentally, unless Roblox had sufficient mortgage capacity to buy themselves a property before the end of the Mesher Order, then his agreement is a bit unfair on him. If you do enter a Mesher Order by consent then you need to be wary of the sharp practices used by solicitors representing the resident parent. If you are stuck on a mortgage, you cannot get another and you have to rent until the end of the Mesher Order then it is not appropriate for the Mesher Order to deduct the mortgage at the point of separation. It should be at the point of sale.

The reason for this is because otherwise one of the parties gets the benefit of building capital during the term of the Mesher Order paying a mortgage in both names and the other burns all their money in rent. Let's say there is a ten year Mesher Order. Parent A is paying a £1k mortgage, £500 of which is capital repayment. The other parent is paying £1k in rent because they cannot get a second mortgage. Parent A makes capital repayments of say £60k in that time whilst Parent B makes nothing. That is clearly an unfair outcome. The separating couple need to maintain two homes because of a joint decision to divorce and both parents should share the impact of one of them having to rent.

Now let's compare Roblox's deal with mine to show you the difference (I will assume house prices don't move!)

Roblox
House worth £200k with a £100k mortgage outstanding. 10 year Mesher Order in favour of Parent A. Mortgage repayments of £1k a month of which £500 is capital. Agreement to split 50/50 on the equity at the point of separation.

Outcome would be Parent A has £110k of equity whilst Parent B only has £50k.

Typical
House worth £200k with a £100k mortgage outstanding. 10 year Mesher Order in favour of Parent A. Mortgage repayments of £1k a month of which £500 is capital. Agreement to split 50/50 on the equity at the point of sale.

Outcome would be each parent having £80k on sale.

Now, that's without house prices going up! Just imagine the impact of that on the split too.

Solicitors will try and push you into the Roblox method if you agree to a Mesher Order but a court would generally use the Roblox method IF the non-resident parent can buy a second property and would use my method if they had to rent.

 

[Roblox]

hi roblox, when did you get the mesher order as i understand they are rarely used by the courts now? thanks jon

It went through in 2020

They are far less common these days agreed.

 

[jon1234]

im trying to find a way to keep the house under a mesher order. did you get much advice on it at the time? when can you get one if the court is deciding, if you still have capability to get a mortgage?

 

[Unknown01]

Court ordered Mesher Orders are a last resort. To get one you would need to prove to the court that you have absolutely no other way of housing yourself. The term of the Mesher Order, contrary to the myth of it being "when the children are 18," will be the point at which a court has determined you can house yourself without one.

Unless you are a carer to a disabled child or have a child who is not in school yet AND can afford the mortgage on your own without help from the other party (CMS will count towards this ability to afford) AND you have 70%+ responsibility for childcare your chances of a Mesher Order being court ordered are slim to none. In other circumstances the court is more likely to conclude that you can have more than half the equity, work more hours, downsize and get your own mortgage.

 

[jon1234]

thanks for the advice. pretty blunt. you sound like you know from experience?

 

[Nujra Rof]

Question if anyone could advise - If you agree a split after sale of a marital home, can you ensure she signs a clean break order, or can she just simply refuse even though she agrees to the split ?

 

[Oneofmany]

I think..... you agree the split percentage then that get written into an order. Then its all lawful and contractual, I don't think she can back out then ...... I may be wrong.

I don't remember if your home is joint mortgage or sole? If its in your sole name she can get a home rights notice slapped on it meaning you cant sell etc etc without getting the financials signed of beforehand..... its a nightmare tbh

 

[Nujra Rof]

But can you get a clean break order after it is done, if you have young kids?

 

[Unknown01]

thanks for the advice. pretty blunt. you sound like you know from experience?

I'm a trainee solicitor. Maybe when I'm qualified I will learn to smooth the advice! But I hate Mesher Orders, I find the entire concept disgusting to be honest.

 

[Unknown01]

Question if anyone could advise - If you agree a split after sale of a marital home, can you ensure she signs a clean break order, or can she just simply refuse even though she agrees to the split ?

She can disagree but in that instance you would not agree to the split and you would have a stalemate that the court would have to rule on.

 

[Unknown01]

But can you get a clean break order after it is done, if you have young kids?

A clean break would be the norm, even if there were young children. This is because child maintenance is normally outside of the court's jurisdiction so the court can settle all matters over which they have discretion.

Old fashioned solutions that keep couples stuck together financially such as Mesher Orders and Spousal Maintenance are a last resort these days and quite rare.

 

[Nujra Rof]

A clean break would be the norm, even if there were young children. This is because child maintenance is normally outside of the court's jurisdiction so the court can settle all matters over which they have discretion.

Old fashioned solutions that keep couples stuck together financially such as Mesher Orders and Spousal Maintenance are a last resort these days and quite rare.

Really glad to hear stuff like spousal maintenance isn’t applicable as much nowadays / those were the first two words that came out my wife’s mouth when the divorce proceedings started!

Glad to hear clean break is the norm - any reason it wouldn’t be granted if no spousal maintenance and no Mesher order? (On the premise we agree to the split - as my concern is she will just agree to the split but a year or two later if I’m doing ok and back on my feet, as I like to work whereas she’s indicated she won’t be!), she will come after me randomly for more, whether she gets it is another matter but I don’t want that risk or dragging back to court etc.

 

[capa]

I sincerely hope that mesher orders are now rarer than hens teeth, cos as it stands at the moment it's the one topic MY solicitor keeps bringing up.

 

[Nujra Rof]

I sincerely hope that mesher orders are now rarer than hens teeth, cos as it stands at the moment it's the one topic MY solicitor keeps bringing up.

Why does your own solicitor keep bringing it up?

 

[Unknown01]

In the unlikely event the other side hasn't given up on a Mesher Order after the FDR, quit your job. A Mesher Order is utterly useless if the occupant cannot afford the mortgage without money from you and you aren't working.

 

[Unknown01]

Really glad to hear stuff like spousal maintenance isn’t applicable as much nowadays / those were the first two words that came out my wife’s mouth when the divorce proceedings started!

Glad to hear clean break is the norm - any reason it wouldn’t be granted if no spousal maintenance and no Mesher order? (On the premise we agree to the split - as my concern is she will just agree to the split but a year or two later if I’m doing ok and back on my feet, as I like to work whereas she’s indicated she won’t be!), she will come after me randomly for more, whether she gets it is another matter but I don’t want that risk or dragging back to court etc.

Your wife will be expected to maximise her earning capacity. A judge would tear her a new one if she went to court with that attitude.

 

[Nujra Rof]

Your wife will be expected to maximise her earning capacity. A judge would tear her a new one if she went to court with that attitude.

Yes I’ve heard similar that she would be assessed on the basis she maximised her income ie. Went full time.

I guess the main thing for me is getting a clean break order, as I said I don’t want risk of her coming after me again in future - she will take loads now, hasn’t brought anything financially to this marriage, and lived on my dollar. So I want to ensure she shoots her one final shot and that’s it, as given the opportunity I’ve no doubt she’d want another bite of the cherry if I did anything such as bought a new car or moved to a slightly bigger house - she’d be green with envy and want to cause hurt and upset too (spiteful she is). So need that clean break order

Do you think it’s likely I’ll be ok getting it?

 

[Unknown01]

The courts have been given a clear steer towards a clean break. However, you need to approach with caution. The reality is that the courts want to separate every couple financially as soon as possible but sometimes to be cautious they award the lower earner a silly amount like 80% of the assets. In contrast a 60/40 split with a deferred clean break can be better because although she could technically come back for more, unless she could prove she needed it, you could afford it AND that the circumstances had substantially changed since the original order (and I'm not talking about something minor like her losing her job) then the court would tell her to fuck off.

 

[Antelope]

A mesher order is not a clean break as you are still tied together financially and can make it difficult or impossible for you to get a new mortgage. There is a risk you will be renting until the house is sold and you may need to take her back to court to force the sale.

In my vase, the ex wanted the mesher order based Home value 500k, Mortgage 300k.

Her mortgage raising ability was limited to 210k. Her father turned around on the morning of the hearing and said he would act as guarentor on the mortgage! Judge said he was doing me a favour. I walked away with noubt, to get my clean break as kids were young and didn't want to be renting for the next 15 years.

 

[Unknown01]

He wasn't doing you a favour and that judge was a complete idiot to say so. Mesher Orders ought to be banned, they might have worked in the old days when house prices were about 3 times salary, the resident parent could afford the mortgage and the non-resident could still buy somewhere else but they do not work now.

I'm still going through divorce and made it clear to my wife that I will not agree to a Mesher Order by consent and I will spend a lot on solicitors and barristers to fight it so there won't be any equity left if it comes to final hearing. Even if she wins, I'm leaving the country and going somewhere where wages are lower to fuck her over because without decent amounts of CM she cannot afford to pay the mortgage. Her odds of getting one are poor anyway; a study by the University of Bristol found that in 400 divorces there were 3 Mesher Orders and 4 deferred charges and even these might have been by consent (the study didn't differentiate). The judges interviewed almost unanimously agreed that they didn't like them.

Overwhelmingly, the way divorces end are that the house gets transferred to one party who may well have to take out as big a mortgage as they can possibly afford in order to give the other some of the equity (unless there is a big pension to offset). Normally the resident parent gets 1-2 years to release the other from the mortgage or the house is ordered to be sold.