Hi all, iv signed divorce papers and agreed child maintenance which is almost 1/3 my wages along with sharing kids costs (medical etc), thing is since papers are signed she leaves kids with me a lot, they could be with me more time in week then with her. I feel like have argue with her spend more time with kids, if I talk bout not paying maintenance as I'm doing more the parenting than her, she will then talk bout quitting her work so I have to pay more, seems it catch 22, she's gets all for less them half time with them, while I pay out and take them more time, only silver lining I take from this is I see plenty off my kids as I know lot dads struggle for access I'm grateful of that, though as there dad i be less financially stressed if I didn't have pay my ex to take them few days a week
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Maintenance
- Thread starter Bruce
- Start date
When you say you've agreed Child Maintenance, was it court ordered as part of the divorce? If so, that only lasts a year, and after that you can go with CMS assessment.
Assume there are no court orders for the Child Arrangements? It's not nice being threatened with a) taking the kids away b) threatening it'll cost you more etc.
One thing you could do is get the Child Arrangements formalised with the court at 50/50 (and in that case there is no CM to pay! Unless you make a voluntary agreement between you). However court applications can increase hostilities - the usual process is try mediation first (which probably won't work from what you've said) then apply to court (it is possible to get an order at first hearing if both agree - but again she sounds unlikely to agree to no money).
So reading between the lines what you've said. She is giving you the kids a lot - because she's working? And saying if you can't have them she'll have to give up work to look after them, is that right? While there is some sense in that, it's not how it should be. If she needs to work, she should work, but also work out a reasonable schedule with you.
I think most Dads would love to have their kids more than half the time, but I can see your point that it's hardly fair to do that and pay a large sum of CM as well. But presumably if you didn't pay any, your ex couldn't afford to house the kids is that right?
One thing you do want to do is build up a good history of time with the kids, and keep records. Write it down on a calendar or in a diary, exactly when they are with you each time, what time till what time and any particular things you do during that time. Take photos when you have days out etc. You probably do anyway, and don't be too obvious about it.
So if and when you do have to apply to court, you can prove the history and have a good standing.
How long has this situation been going on (ie you having the kids most of the time and paying a third of your salary to your ex?).
Another reason to keep records is - if it suits her she might reduce that time drastically - for various reasons - and then you would need to apply to court.
Ultimately parents have to provide for their kids - a roof over their heads, pay the bills (two homes once separated), clothe, feed them, get them toys, pay for school trips etc. How you work that between you is individual in some ways - but if you're paying twice - not good.
Assume there are no court orders for the Child Arrangements? It's not nice being threatened with a) taking the kids away b) threatening it'll cost you more etc.
One thing you could do is get the Child Arrangements formalised with the court at 50/50 (and in that case there is no CM to pay! Unless you make a voluntary agreement between you). However court applications can increase hostilities - the usual process is try mediation first (which probably won't work from what you've said) then apply to court (it is possible to get an order at first hearing if both agree - but again she sounds unlikely to agree to no money).
So reading between the lines what you've said. She is giving you the kids a lot - because she's working? And saying if you can't have them she'll have to give up work to look after them, is that right? While there is some sense in that, it's not how it should be. If she needs to work, she should work, but also work out a reasonable schedule with you.
I think most Dads would love to have their kids more than half the time, but I can see your point that it's hardly fair to do that and pay a large sum of CM as well. But presumably if you didn't pay any, your ex couldn't afford to house the kids is that right?
One thing you do want to do is build up a good history of time with the kids, and keep records. Write it down on a calendar or in a diary, exactly when they are with you each time, what time till what time and any particular things you do during that time. Take photos when you have days out etc. You probably do anyway, and don't be too obvious about it.
So if and when you do have to apply to court, you can prove the history and have a good standing.
How long has this situation been going on (ie you having the kids most of the time and paying a third of your salary to your ex?).
Another reason to keep records is - if it suits her she might reduce that time drastically - for various reasons - and then you would need to apply to court.
Ultimately parents have to provide for their kids - a roof over their heads, pay the bills (two homes once separated), clothe, feed them, get them toys, pay for school trips etc. How you work that between you is individual in some ways - but if you're paying twice - not good.
I agree with Ash. Use this opportunity to build evidence that you are caring for the children above and beyond any mediated agreements. You also need to be careful, as she may withhold the children from seeing you or make co-parenting difficult if she feels that you are going to reduce payments.
As Ash said, many dads (me included) would love to have more time to care for the kids. If you can afford the payments, I wouldn't rock the boat. I know it is unfair, but the $h1t system is set up this way.
As Ash said, many dads (me included) would love to have more time to care for the kids. If you can afford the payments, I wouldn't rock the boat. I know it is unfair, but the $h1t system is set up this way.
Nearly 3 years seperated now I used pay roughly half my wages and got it down, its not just to cover work but also cover her free time, she also receives child benefit from state, I understand things be tight if I give nothing, my head does be just like I'm paying for herself to be comfortable while I'm stretched and will be stuck in parents for foreseeable future as cant afford rent anywhere when handing over large chunk my wages, she had house and mortage before we met, i could possibly earn more in my line of work if move jobs though I'm kinda stuck with current job as I always need be flexible round her changing shifts, my current boss knows this n works with it, though salary won't budge
8 and 4, I don't intend on cutting it any time soon I'm just thinking longterm can it be adjusted or is it as agreed from divorce, I know kids won't be withdrawn, she struggles if left 2 days in row with them, not sure if her head in right space so I roll with it, trying not put too much pressure on, just feel some point have take care my own needs too, not great on kids have both parent struggling for different reasons, solicitor acted as mediator when filing divorce though at that point she had them most week, I take them mine 2 nights, put bed in hers if working another night, things have change now be more 4 nights at mine, not sure if moving kids about so much is good for them either, they see there mams house as there home
If it was agreed as part of divorce I believe it lasts for a year and then you can pay by CMS assessment - you can check the online CMS calculator to see how much you'd be assessed for. Assuming the financials were just Child Maintenance as part of the divorce and not including Spousal or a "global" maintenance order?
A further court order for 50/50 child arrangements would change things - and then there'd be no CM to pay. But for that reason they may not order a full 50/50 if she's dependent on you and previous arrangement was you would pay - not sure about that. Technically finances doesn't come into child arrangements - except it can play a part in the background.
I wouldn't bank on her not ever withdrawing the kids (or reducing time a lot) - other Dads have thought that and its surprising how vengeful some can be if you don't do what they want (or if you met a new partner for example).
You already said she said she might give up work if you didn't pay. Then she'd be at home to look after the kids.
So - you're paying her mortgage and still living with your parents? You should be able to afford to have a home too. If you did pay less so you could afford your own home, what position would that leave her in? Would she have to sell the house and downsize? Or would she just need to get a better job and earn more?
Some Dads suck up all the payment just so their kids can keep their familiar family home and lifestyle - but the kids are spending more time with you! So they deserve two decent homes.
If and when you do think about reducing the amount somehow, it would need to be very carefully handled.
www.gov.uk
A further court order for 50/50 child arrangements would change things - and then there'd be no CM to pay. But for that reason they may not order a full 50/50 if she's dependent on you and previous arrangement was you would pay - not sure about that. Technically finances doesn't come into child arrangements - except it can play a part in the background.
I wouldn't bank on her not ever withdrawing the kids (or reducing time a lot) - other Dads have thought that and its surprising how vengeful some can be if you don't do what they want (or if you met a new partner for example).
You already said she said she might give up work if you didn't pay. Then she'd be at home to look after the kids.
So - you're paying her mortgage and still living with your parents? You should be able to afford to have a home too. If you did pay less so you could afford your own home, what position would that leave her in? Would she have to sell the house and downsize? Or would she just need to get a better job and earn more?
Some Dads suck up all the payment just so their kids can keep their familiar family home and lifestyle - but the kids are spending more time with you! So they deserve two decent homes.
If and when you do think about reducing the amount somehow, it would need to be very carefully handled.
Calculate your child maintenance
Use this calculator to work out an amount of child maintenance for your children.
So you've been caring for the kids more than half the time for three years. What kind of schedule does it work out as? Or is it ad hoc and all over the place?
When you do the CMS calculation, do two versions. One that includes the number of nights the kids are with you now approximately. And one as if they had no nights with you. The latter will be the cost if she stopped them seeing you (ie worst case scenario/highest figure). It can get very tricky - it's very common for an ex to reduce time with the kids in retaliation for you paying less.
When you do the CMS calculation, do two versions. One that includes the number of nights the kids are with you now approximately. And one as if they had no nights with you. The latter will be the cost if she stopped them seeing you (ie worst case scenario/highest figure). It can get very tricky - it's very common for an ex to reduce time with the kids in retaliation for you paying less.
Thanks a lot for all your advice Ash, I'm pretty sure she be ok with half mortgage being paid if she looked after kids at times on her days off, schedule changes all time as she works shifts and nights, so we have work around that, she has days offs during week sometimes full week off but uses childcare quite a lot which uses up lot maintenance, I think if was more financially clued in she be fine, could maybe due to stress n anxiety the kids spend lot of time between me and childcare, I'm working 7am-6pm 5 days week so not around during day to keep childcare costs down
Best thing maybe would be to have a discussion then if you can keep things amicable. If that doesn’t work you could try mediation. With an impartial person to try and show both points of view and what’s best for the kids and try and help you reach agreement.
It might also come down to timing as well. Obviously you need to be getting your own place and can’t carry on like this indefinitely. But sudden changes don’t go down well with the other person it affects. Drip feeding ideas for a while might help her get used to the idea that things need to change and a solution worked out.
How old are your kids and are they both at school?
It’s best to try and keep things amicable so the kids don’t suffer from fall outs. Even if it means accepting a “no” now then trying again later (ie drip feeding).
It might also come down to timing as well. Obviously you need to be getting your own place and can’t carry on like this indefinitely. But sudden changes don’t go down well with the other person it affects. Drip feeding ideas for a while might help her get used to the idea that things need to change and a solution worked out.
How old are your kids and are they both at school?
It’s best to try and keep things amicable so the kids don’t suffer from fall outs. Even if it means accepting a “no” now then trying again later (ie drip feeding).
8 and 4 they both in school now, in fairness her family do pick ups and drop off from childcare to school when I'm working and she working, I don't work Local nor am I from the area originally so have no contacts to help out which doesn't help my cause when trying negotiate, as I depend on her family too, when I say staying in parents I mean my dad who moved close here some years ago which was lucky as I had somewhere nearby the kids to go but he is of no help with small children, my mam practically raised us on her own, I might just suck it up for now as inflation will have more pressure on her bills and come back to it when things settle down,could be bad timing, I plan work more local in future if possible ease some stress getting to work on time when I have them and back to pick them up