LIP Parents - Judicial Continuity

[BirminghamUK]

As you all know ive been at the family court since 2018.

for my case in the capital for every hearing / pretrial whatever, its always been a different judge. This is a major issue because at the start of the hearing the judge reads statements, they skim through the statement, probably do not even read the chronology of events in the bundle and start their judgement thought process. Point is that for a subsequent hearing the judges never know on what basis this subsequent hearing was granted, for all they know this could be the first attempt.

little do they know of the history, especially history of tactics played by a particular party (more often than not the tactics of the party which is being represented by a professional).

take my case for example, if i recall correctly I had my first NMO served to me in July 2020 and because of the tactics played by the conniving party i am now facing the third attempt to complete a fact finding hearing

1st attempt
Jan 2021 was pre trial (if successful it would have been 3 weeks later), the pre trial was a failure because the ex's solicitor did not send me the documents in time for the pre-trial and the dopey judge instructed documents to be sent again and set another date for another pre trial.

2nd attempt
Mar/April 2021 pre trial took place and the next available date for a fact find hearing ended up as Oct 2021, in which the FF actually did not take place for x amount of reasons and then timetabled for May 2022 (abandoned due to no disclosures) and then set for Nov 2022. The Nov 2022 FF failed as you all know.

3rd attempt
Awaiting new pre trial date and FF date.

if judges keep following whatever crappy framework they are following then there could be 'N' number of pre-trials and FF hearings.... right? we could be here forever.

what can we do minimise these pre trial and ff hearing attempts?
due to the lengthy duration of my case i think i will have to submit my own chronology as part of my submission hoping it will make a difference.

i submitted it today, didnt make a difference apart from judge saying 'this chap has been trying to establish a relationship with his daughter since 2018' and was speechless that matured parents like me and the ex are 38+ years old now and i quote him 'called us out as a bickering pair'. i didnt argue with him, but its not me vandalising the ex's house or setting the ex's car on fire or getting the ex arrested or fabricating allegations or evidence, creating false drama or playing tactics to delay contact orders... clearly i am the one with substantial loss in this whole process, dont the judges see that?

what can we do minimise these attampts?

i'm following the system, accepting judges decisions, i mean what else can we do?

today its hit me that being a LIP isnt easy especially when the ex has a barrister, the framework is against you and even the judge makes a poor decision.

Im struggling to accept the concept of me asking for 'supervised' contact in a CAFCASS affiliated centre and me waiting at least 3 years to get it.
I mean its supervised for petes sake, i'll be in a centre, i'll have a supervisor with me, what is it that im supposedly going to do in a supervised session that i would deliberately harm my position as a father?

I asked for this in Dec 2019 as a variation... we are now Dec 2022, i feel there is poor continuity and poor momentum in my case which someone like me as a LIP have failed to overcome.

 

[Ash]

Your case has been horrific. I read something today that they're not doing interim contact until after a fact find. And you have been trying to have a fact find completed. I do think that your ex having a barrister has been a lot of the problem. A Judge is swayed by a barrister so it wasn't an even playing field. I am still confused as to why the four day fact finding didn't go ahead. If the allegations were stale then why not just get on with the hearing and dismiss them. Because her Barrister said she had some new ones. I think you were unlucky with the Judge.

 

[BirminghamUK]

Your case has been horrific. I read something today that they're not doing interim contact until after a fact find. And you have been trying to have a fact find completed. I do think that your ex having a barrister has been a lot of the problem. A Judge is swayed by a barrister so it wasn't an even playing field. I am still confused as to why the four day fact finding didn't go ahead. If the allegations were stale then why not just get on with the hearing and dismiss them. Because her Barrister said she had some new ones. I think you were unlucky with the Judge.

Yeah yesterday's judge was very poor in his decision making... I was thinking his time is up as a judge actually... He was very elderly..
Real Shame..

 

[Ash]

They are so short of Judges with the backlog they have been bringing some back out of retirement .............It was publicised recently. I really hope your next hearing date is soon. If it isn't, write to your MP about your case.

 

[KF31]

I can’t imagine how hard it must be for you to have this going on for so long without any conclusion.

My partner has just come to the end of his third court case with his ex. The first two cases he went through he had a different judge at each hearing. Thankfully through this latest case he had the same district judge at each hearing. His was for enforcement which turned into him also requesting shared residency, but to be honest he still had to push and convince the judge to get it to the fact finding hearing where he could submit and show his evidence. The judge just wanted to end it at each hearing without giving any thought to the breaches his ex had committed.

Even when he got to submit his evidence the judge blatantly lied to him. He had submitted the written evidence such as texts and emails but he had video evidence and dash cam footage and was told by the judge he didn’t need to submit this as he would just need to bring a laptop to enable him to play it to the court on the day, he still had to provide the video evidence to the ex though.

On the day of the hearing the judge just wanted to gloss over the enforcement cause the ex admitted the breaches, but the evidence was so bad that he pushed the judge to look at it. The judge then made a comment that she had already seen the video evidence. A complete lie as the videos hadn’t been submitted to court.

Thankfully she agreed to read some of the evidence and transcripts of the videos and she then changed her mind and said that the evidence was very serious and she then said she would consider a sanction for the ex.

My partner was a LIP with a McKenzie friend. I think it helped that his ex had no solicitor or barrister (she was represented at the other court cases), it allowed the ex to show herself up to the court with the comments she made.

What did concern me through the hearings is that it seems the judge gives little time to looking at paperwork/evidence. It seems they only take a few minutes to look at it before the hearing. If only a position statement is submitted and there is continuity of the judge then this would probably be ok, but my partner submitted quite a bit of evidence and it was clear the judge hadn’t looked at it. Even if the judge had viewed it a few minutes before the hearing there wouldn’t have been enough time for her to view it properly based on how much there was.

As long as the system continues like this there will continue to be injustice. As for my partner it’s 4 weeks since his court case ended and he’s still waiting on the judge to write her report.

 

[Ash]

With enforcement you submit the evidence along with the C79 application usually, so the Judge should get plenty of time to see it all before a hearing - and then a position statement just before the hearing. It sounds like you had a flakey Judge KF31. They vary. There are some very very good Judges, some ok ones and some flakey ones. The main problem is enforcement - it just doesn't work as it should. The law needs to change. Even if proving the breaches were bad or no reasonable excuse - it's - what do they do about it? Technically they could change residence if they wanted to (although that would usually mean a section 7 first), or amend the order to make it work. But it's as if their hands are tied because they are not there to punish parents but to make orders work and there are no real punishments. An ex often uses breaching and enforcement as a back door way of getting an order varied to less time as well - a common trick - breach on purpose so Dad is forced to apply to enforce and pay the fee, then wap in an application to vary on the back of that (or just argue the time needs to be less). And that sometimes works!

So you were lucky his ex didn't have a lawyer! I have come to the conclusion that, if there are serious breaches, it can be better to apply to vary rather than apply to enforce. The downside is, an enforcement hearing is usually quicker. With application to vary you go through the whole process again - MIAM, first hearing, Cafcass calls (although sometimes you get Cafcass calls for enforcement as well). But you are applying for a new order (shared care eg) with a strong argument that the current order isn't working because it's being breached all the time.

I actually had no option but to do this because my first order was so badly written it wasn't actually enforceable. So I had to apply to vary.

Did he get his shared care order?

 

[Resolute]

These stories are appalling, it really is a scandal.

In a culture where "victims" MUST be believed, and all of this happens behind closed doors, I'm not sure of the solution.

My sister keeps on saying that the term "abusive" is being used to discredit men in the same way "hysteria" was used against women. We are abusers in people's minds, looking at evidence and arguments from us is not on their agenda.

If there is a solution, I believe it involves demonstrating how Family Law is failing children and achieving radical reform as a result. We can't spend too long beating ourselves up about not winning a rigged game.

(None of my three judges read the evidence or statements prior to the hearings)

 

[Peanut 21]

In my opinion it's all a big money making scheme. Every time a course or contact centre is ordered....£££££. Every application made includes fees....£££££ again! Solicitors and barristers get paid vast amounts of money regardless to outcomes.
It's a big game of rigged chess. The losing side has a handful of pieces that can only make limited moves. The winning side has endless pieces (schools, SS, courts etc) that can make any move they like.
Cynical maybe but that's how I feel.

 

[BirminghamUK]

They are so short of Judges with the backlog they have been bringing some back out of retirement .............It was publicised recently. I really hope your next hearing date is soon. If it isn't, write to your MP about your case.

Yeah my judge from yesterday was a retired judge brought back in for service, is it really worth it though, they retired for a reason..... I understand why now this judge didn't have the motivation to see my 3 day fact finding through... He's passed the buck basically...

 

[KF31]

Did he get his shared care order?

We don’t know yet, 4 weeks later and he’s still waiting to receive the order despite the judge saying it would be done within 7-14 days. He’s chased it up with the court twice and both times been told the judge hadn’t written it yet and that there was nothing much they could do.

 

[Ash]

I remember now. Fingers crossed. I wouldn't chase it again till after Christmas. The Judge is either very busy or sitting on it for now.

 

[Ash]

On the other hand, you could maybe chase it up in a couple of weeks (ie before Christmas).

 

[John]

I had an interim order and next steps ordered on 15th November, haven’t received it yet despite there being things ordered that need to be done by a certain date, ie a hair strand test for me and Scott schedule by the other party.. It’s very frustrating as I just want to to keep the pace going.. I’ve chased it a couple of times and sent an email marked urgent to the court explaining the urgency needed for the order. I’m hoping to receive the order at some point this week, but on the phone I’ve just been told that it hasn’t been typed up yet.. the process is very frustrating

 

[John]

I also asked for the same magistrate for the whole process and was told they can’t guarantee that as they work as volunteers so it depends when they are volunteering and if they are available or not