LIP for a Fact Finding

[Ash]

I think family court is an exclusive legal club. I've seen it said that Judges prefer dealing with lawyers. There used to be advice that if you were LIP the Judge would assist you but you don't hear much about that. There don't seem to be any allowances made for someone being LIP and up against a lawyer for the other side. The way the legal system seems to work is judges being persuaded by lawyers. They will take note of what you say but seem to be more swayed by lawyers.

 

[DadLad]

During my last hearing the judge asked if I would be represented for the next hearing. At the time I said hopefully, not realising that it would be decided that a 4 day final hearing would be ordered with a price tag of £20k+ for representation.

I am now LIP for my final hearing.

Should I contact the court regarding questions/ cross examination of the respondent or submit the questions on the day?

Should I make an application or send an email?

 

[Ash]

It could be worth emailing the court just to say that unfortunately you can't afford legal representation for the four day hearing so will be representing yourself.

However if you ask should the Judge ask you to give a list of questions rather than cross examining you might just get a similar response to before in that the Judge won't make any orders or decisions without a hearing.#

So I would just go ahead expecting to cross examine unless you're told otherwise. Some people have done their own cross examination at final hearings.

 

[DadLad]

It could be worth emailing the court just to say that unfortunately you can't afford legal representation for the four day hearing so will be representing yourself.

However if you ask should the Judge ask you to give a list of questions rather than cross examining you might just get a similar response to before in that the Judge won't make any orders or decisions without a hearing.#

So I would just go ahead expecting to cross examine unless you're told otherwise. Some people have done their own cross examination at final hearings.

But under the DA act, when there are allegations of domestic abuse, we can't cross examine the other party?

 

[mainstay92]

Why are LIP treated so badly? is there some sort of exclusive legal club and anyone outside of that is looked down at as a hindrance?

I think its some Judges prefare those who know the Legal system..but not everyone can afford it and the lenght of time family court takes, fathers are ending up broke.

 

[Scoobydoo]

I’ve seen this with my own eyes ! I don’t think I can recall any suggestion/ direction .Wording of documents . Requests etc declined when requested by my barrister …

Nearly always hers are rejected or ignored ! As said above it the legal perspective judges relate too not ‘what we want / think ‘

It does work both ways and I can confirm it’s not mum / dad related however as most dads here do not have representation and mums seem to get legal aid yes you are on the back foot sadly .. especially when cafcass and the truly diabolical SS are involved ..

I am fortunate so far I’ve been able to get representation and one of the things I did to help was get a lodger or 2 ..

As heartbreaking as it is when contact is lost it usually takes 12 months to go through the process and I realised this early and cashed in ( was painful ) as kids not using there rooms.

Really hard but the reward was possibly worth the short term pain

HMRC Do not tax a lot of the income on the rent a room scheme . ( not sure how it works if social housing but think the same ) and also if lodgers no tenancy agreement so you can turn it round quickly. Jist a thought that may help others raise funds for the critical hearings.

 

[DadLad]

Has anyone added to a scott schedule once already submitted?

I left two things out based on what the judge said at the hearing. The ex hasn't listened to this and included allegations of no relevance to this case.

I have viewed some recent documents submitted to me and I think that it is vital to include a further two allegations to my scott schedule?

 

[Ash]

If it's been submitted it might be too late - but I am not entirely sure - others might know. Is it something you could raise in a position statement instead?

 

[DadLad]

If it's been submitted it might be too late - but I am not entirely sure - others might know. Is it something you could raise in a position statement instead?

Yeah I think it's something I could possibly mention in the position statement.

But would this also be something which could be mentioned during the cross-examination of the respondent?

 

[mainstay92]

Yeah I think it's something I could possibly mention in the position statement.

But would this also be something which could be mentioned during the cross-examination of the respondent?

Hey, for cross examination they can use the bundle to question.. So if its in your position statement should be ok.. Tip remember all your previous statements if u ever had any police interviews etc. They question on everything

 

[DadLad]

Hey, for cross examination they can use the bundle to question.. So if its in your position statement should be ok.. Tip remember all your previous statements if u ever had any police interviews etc. They question on everything

I'm referring to me cross-examining the respondent.

I've never had any police involvement.

 

[mainstay92]

I'm referring to me cross-examining the respondent.

I've never had any police involvement.

Where you asked for your own questions?

Usually questions are asked from anywhere in the Bundle.. Not just the scot schedule. So once its in the Bundle you should be able to question and reference where it is in the Bundle.

Example: please refer to page 23 of the Bundle. You said xxxx can you explain why you said this xxx if now your its not true.

Google fact find judgements and read some of the results to come from fact find.. It will help

 

[DadLad]

Where you asked for your own questions?

Usually questions are asked from anywhere in the Bundle.. Not just the scot schedule. So once its in the Bundle you should be able to question and reference where it is in the Bundle.

Example: please refer to page 23 of the Bundle. You said xxxx can you explain why you said this xxx if now your its not true.

Google fact find judgements and read some of the results to come from fact find.. It will help

Im questioning if I can add additional allegations to my already submitted scott schedule after seeing some important documents this week which are crucial.

I was asked for questions after the judge presumed I would be represented but Im not, Im going to be LIP

 

[mainstay92]

Im questioning if I can add additional allegations to my already submitted scott schedule after seeing some important documents this week which are crucial.

I was asked for questions after the judge presumed I would be represented but Im not, Im going to be LIP

Oh ok, I dont know sorry.
When represented by a Barrister they didnt ask for the questions before hand.

 

[Nanaforsonsjustice]

Im questioning if I can add additional allegations to my already submitted scott schedule after seeing some important documents this week which are crucial.

I was asked for questions after the judge presumed I would be represented but Im not, Im going to be LIP

Hi the short answer is no because it’s already been served. However, you do have the option of working to the court and asking for permission to provide an updated schedule. You could say you just realised you sent the wrong version.

 

[DadLad]

Hi the short answer is no because it’s already been served. However, you do have the option of working to the court and asking for permission to provide an updated schedule. You could say you just realised you sent the wrong version.

Would this need an application though?

 

[DadLad]

Im questioning if I can add additional allegations to my already submitted scott schedule after seeing some important documents this week which are crucial.

I was asked for questions after the judge presumed I would be represented but Im not, Im going to be LIP

I wasn't asked*

Typo lol

 

[Nanaforsonsjustice]

Would this need an application though?

No you could just email the court and ask if you can provide the correct schedule as the one you had sent previously was an earlier draft one.

 

[DadLad]

No you could just email the court and ask if you can provide the correct schedule as the one you had sent previously was an earlier draft one.

I think the other party will try to object it but it's worth a try.

I will cover it in my position statement and provide exhibits with it.

 

[DadLad]

Something which is always at the back of my mind is that I strongly believe that once contact has started, the mother will try everything to sabotage it. The mother will make claims that our child is distressed or becoming emotionally upset after each visit. Especially if Cafcass are still involved through the ICFA she will milk this to the extreme.

I know I'm probably thinking ahead but I can always predict her motives. She is trying to prevent me from ever having a bond or a relationship with our child