LIP for a Fact Finding

[DadLad]

Common tactics. A few years ago I worked as a paralegal for 3 years as I have a law degree and the solicitors in charge always use these tactics. The best way forward is to prepare a separate bundle just in case and submit it to the court.

The solicitor's that I've encountered are really spineless and nasty people. They have all these dirty tricks and tactics, it has a very nasty energy about it.

I've seen one have different personalities, definitely some sort of multiple personality disorder. Very pretentious and malicious, I'm just glad I had a witness with me at the time.

 

[DadLad]

Common tactics. A few years ago I worked as a paralegal for 3 years as I have a law degree and the solicitors in charge always use these tactics. The best way forward is to prepare a separate bundle just in case and submit it to the court.

Would you submit it as a C2 application?

 

[Resolute]

Would you submit it as a C2 application?

No need for an application.

You can email it to the court as "additional exhibits." Send at least 72 hours before the hearing. The court will have a format for the email title, copy from emails sent by the solicitor.

Also, look into how the court wants recordings to be formatted and consider making a transcript to to include with them. I think "WeTransfer" was the app we used.

P.s. Include an explanation of why you are sending and copy the other side. Have the recording on your phone and bring paper copy of any text in triplicate on the day.

 

[DadLad]

I am so confused with my case. I don't understand why the judge hasn't ordered for a response to the scott schedule.

We have only been ordered to submit the allegations schedule and any witness statements. There is nothing in the order about responding to them.

I have evidence to counter all of her allegations. Should I email the court asking for further directions or should I just respond and file everything?

Any advice would be appreciated

 

[Ash]

It does sound very confusing and I seem to remember you already emailed asking for clarification and didn't get an answer in that respect. I can only assume that the Judge is going to decide on the allegations and rely on oral submissions on the day, but it does seem wrong that you don't have the opportunity to respond to the allegations with evidence, before the hearing.

Could you get a half hour's free legal advice on this? Try two or three solicitors - some are better than others. It's a really difficult situation to handle on your own and I don't understand this one either. How can it be a composite fact find and final hearing, when you haven't been given the opportunity to formally respond to the allegations before the hearing.

The only other thing I can think is that you just let this hearing go ahead, having submitted additional evidence after seeing her allegations, and if it goes badly, appeal it - you would have grounds for appeal if you hadn't been given the opportunity to respond to allegations. At an appeal you'd get a more senior Judge. I'd be prepared to appeal it anyway, and be prepared to ask for permission to appeal at the end of the hearing (if it's a Judge and not magistrates). You need that permission out of the way before you can submit an appeal, to avoid delays.

 

[DadLad]

It does sound very confusing and I seem to remember you already emailed asking for clarification and didn't get an answer in that respect. I can only assume that the Judge is going to decide on the allegations and rely on oral submissions on the day, but it does seem wrong that you don't have the opportunity to respond to the allegations with evidence, before the hearing.

Could you get a half hour's free legal advice on this? Try two or three solicitors - some are better than others. It's a really difficult situation to handle on your own and I don't understand this one either. How can it be a composite fact find and final hearing, when you haven't been given the opportunity to formally respond to the allegations before the hearing.

The only other thing I can think is that you just let this hearing go ahead, having submitted additional evidence after seeing her allegations, and if it goes badly, appeal it - you would have grounds for appeal if you hadn't been given the opportunity to respond to allegations. At an appeal you'd get a more senior Judge. I'd be prepared to appeal it anyway, and be prepared to ask for permission to appeal at the end of the hearing (if it's a Judge and not magistrates). You need that permission out of the way before you can submit an appeal, to avoid delays.

I've not emailed the court regarding this matter as yet, Im contemplating just responding so that my evidence and statements are on file beforehand.

I'm hoping that the judge will then see how I've countered and shutdown every allegation and that a FF isn't necessary now.

 

[DadLad]

I raised it with the ex's solicitor who is responsible for making the bundle that documents which I wish to include have been left out even though previously agreed.

I then received a draft copy but they purposefully left certain documents out of the index ie audio and video files. They then made an excuse that they can refer to them on the day. I then asked for them to still be included in the index so that they have a reference point.

Now they are refusing to agree to include these. They are trying to undermine me and they know how powerful my evidence is.

 

[Daddy]

I had this and it's a nasty solicitors trick.

What I did was take their bundle and used a pdf editor software and added my documents to the bundle. Remember to add the document in the correct subheading and on the contents page and also continue the cross referencing letter and number at the bottom of the page, eg C27.

I used Adobe but I read on here somewhere that there's another that is free, lovepdf??

Then, I sent it to the court and copied her solicitor in stating that they refused to add documents that were agreed and therefore this is the court bundle. As the applicant you are responsible for the bundle anyway but usually if other side is represented they do it to be fair.

Solicitors are never to be trusted, they are horrendous.

 

[DadLad]

I had this and it's a nasty solicitors trick.

What I did was take their bundle and used a pdf editor software and added my documents to the bundle. Remember to add the document in the correct subheading and on the contents page and also continue the cross referencing letter and number at the bottom of the page, eg C27.

I used Adobe but I read on here somewhere that there's another that is free, lovepdf??

Then, I sent it to the court and copied her solicitor in stating that they refused to add documents that were agreed and therefore this is the court bundle. As the applicant you are responsible for the bundle anyway but usually if other side is represented they do it to be fair.

Solicitors are never to be trusted, they are horrendous.

They won't include what I've asked to be included in the bundle (because they aren't on the court record is their excuse) they are also now refusing to file the bundle because of this. This means that the judge still hasn't had sight of the bundle.

Im stuck with what to do because this is the evidence I rely upon for my case. And secondly, I have more evidence to counter the ex and her allegations which will also need to be filed later.

 

[Daddy]

You could always add the documents to your position statement for the hearing.
Within your PS say that her solicitors wouldn't add the documentation when you requested and say that the evidence is relevant to the case.

 

[DadLad]

You could always add the documents to your position statement for the hearing.
Within your PS say that her solicitors wouldn't add the documentation when you requested and say that the evidence is relevant to the case.

How would you add audio files though?

 

[Nanaforsonsjustice]

How would you add audio files though?

You need the courts permission to produce audio and video files into the proceedings. If you provide without permission the other side can ask for a wasted costs order and to have any full unedited footage, correctly date and time stamped. The best thing is to provide a transcript of any audio and ask the courts permission to provide the footage.

 

[DadLad]

You need the courts permission to produce audio and video files into the proceedings. If you provide without permission the other side can ask for a wasted costs order and to have any full unedited footage, correctly date and time stamped. The best thing is to provide a transcript of any audio and ask the courts permission to provide the footage.

But as a LIP I can say that I was unaware of permission needed?

The solicitor is refusing to add what has been agreed. I have the written email from them of me stating specifically and them agreeing. Then now refusing

 

[Nanaforsonsjustice]

You could say you were unaware and then it will be for the court to decide if costs should be awarded.

If it’s been agreed by the other side add it and also exhibit the proof that they said they agreed to it being admitted as evidence.

 

[DadLad]

You could say you were unaware and then it will be for the court to decide if costs should be awarded.

If it’s been agreed by the other side add it and also exhibit the proof that they said they agreed to it being admitted as evidence.

The ex has legal aid so there isn't any costs endured.

Surely if I send my evidence in advance, 2 months before my hearing this isn't an issue?

I can also back this up with the email

 

[Nanaforsonsjustice]

They can still ask for costs even if she gets legal aid unfortunately.

You can send it in advance but at the next hearing, the other side can try to delay by saying they want sight of any and all recordings you have and you will need to ensure its date and time stamped. Judges also frown upon video and audio evidence so it would be best to also provide a transcript of any recordings.

However, if the other side already agreed to audio being provided you can just send it to the court and back it up with your email.

 

[DadLad]

They can still ask for costs even if she gets legal aid unfortunately.

You can send it in advance but at the next hearing, the other side can try to delay by saying they want sight of any and all recordings you have and you will need to ensure its date and time stamped. Judges also frown upon video and audio evidence so it would be best to also provide a transcript of any recordings.

However, if the other side already agreed to audio being provided you can just send it to the court and back it up with your email.

They are trying everything to prevent me from having any chance at the next hearing with all these underhanded tricks.

Im trying to prepare the best I can.

 

[UkDad]

They can still ask for costs even if she gets legal aid unfortunately.

That is shocking. What type of costs could they claim if they are already getting legal aid?

 

[Nanaforsonsjustice]

Unfortunately they can claim the costs of preparing for the hearing if it has to be vacated to listen to or view footage, the costs for listening to and viewing footage, the costs of solicitor or barrister for representing at that hearing if vacated. I think I read on another post on here where someone had to pay wasted costs claimed by ex’s solicitors even though they were legally aided. I think it’s because the legal aid certificate is limited to a certain amount and and costs wasted they would wanted to claw back.

 

[Ash]

They are trying everything to prevent me from having any chance at the next hearing with all these underhanded tricks.

Im trying to prepare the best I can.

Hi DadLad - what has happened - have they excluded some evidence you wanted in the bundle and sent it off?