Legal aid for fathers

[Pj66]

It seems that vindictive mothers can get legal aid over nothing. Is it possible for fathers to get legal aid first?

looking at what is required for evidence for legal aid doesnt seem much at all:

Sample letters to get evidence of domestic violence

Use these letters to ask for documents from the police, courts and other agencies to help you get legal aid.

www.gov.uk

Getting a letter from a "domestic abuse advocate/ advisor" or referall to service seems to be enough.

Why can mothers get legal aid but fathers cant? Thought it would be an interesting discussion.

 

[winger]

I'm in the process of getting legal aid, it's been tricky but not because I'm the father at all. I went through a charity and described how the last 5 years have been with ex partner, and how it has been since seperation, falsely arrested, false allegations, etc, they also classed being stopped from seeing my child as abuse, rightly so. And received a letter which I could use to apply for legal aid.

It's taking ages to get it though, and lots of proof needed regarding income, assets etc.

 

[Ash]

Occasionally you hear of a Dad who has had a letter from an organisation stating he’s a victim of abuse and he has obtained legal aid. From memory it was because he applied for it first. Only one parent in a case can have legal aid I believe.

However I think you’d be on thin ground claiming abuse from your history by the sound of it and it could well increase hostilities ongoing.

The Mankind Initiative can be helpful if you’ve been a male victim of abuse.

 

[Pj66]

so the question is does it put the father on a better footing as it would the mother?

If the mother gets legal aid it seems she can claim the abuse card because of "legal aid". If a father got it and then the mother makes allegations, wouldn't that be seen as further abuse by the mother?

It's interesting to see if the courts view a bias towards the person with legal aid as the one more likely to be subject to abuse.

All it would take is one message with a threat for the mother to claim it, (or non mol) however seemingly the bar for fathers to get legal aid is higher.

 

[Scotay]

As i have a restraining order against my ex, convictions for harassments, criminal damage all against me you would think i could get Legal Aid, no chance.

As everything with this country if you have decent job and wage then your on your own.

 

[Pj66]

As i have a restraining order against my ex, convictions for harassments, criminal damage all against me you would think i could get Legal Aid, no chance.

As everything with this country if you have decent job and wage then your on your own.

did she take legal aid before you? had you applied ?

 

[BrainDad]

It seems that vindictive mothers can get legal aid over nothing. Is it possible for fathers to get legal aid first?

looking at what is required for evidence for legal aid doesnt seem much at all:

Sample letters to get evidence of domestic violence

Use these letters to ask for documents from the police, courts and other agencies to help you get legal aid.

www.gov.uk

Getting a letter from a "domestic abuse advocate/ advisor" or referall to service seems to be enough.

Why can mothers get legal aid but fathers cant? Thought it would be an interesting discussion.

If your GP considers you have a condition that is consistent with being a victim of domestic violence then you may be able to get legal aid.

You would need to make an appointment to see your GP and ask them if they would complete the template letter with their view - https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/get-medical-proof-of-domestic-violence

Obviously, it would help if you'd already seen them and raised concerns or have been treated for anything that was consistent with being a vicitm of dv.

Then it would be up to the Legal Aid agency as to whether they would grant it based on the financial "means" test and the "merits" test. They won't roll over easily either and you'd probably have to challenge their initial decision.

Be careful though, because the vested interests love to attack fathers and anything psychological if the father is the victim will be used to say he is an unfit parent. So he'd probably have to instruct a psychologist and evidence he's recovered from the abuse too.

Cafcass hate the idea of admitting that men can be victims of DV, because they are in bed with Women's Aid Federation and the (discredited) gendered narrative of DV. Cafcass have had complaints for professionals and male domestic violence charities about always taking females side when a man is victim of domestic violence. But conveniently, they don't seem to disclose those complaints to the court like they should be doing.

Cafcass will just say it's high conflict and recommend indirect contact. Because it's his fault if she's punching him because she's only punching him in self defence. You couldn't make this stuff up, but this is the mental gymnastics that goes on

Equality. But only when it suits.

 

[Pj66]

"Be careful though, because the vested interests love to attack fathers and anything psychological if the father is the victim will be used to say he is an unfit parent. So he'd probably have to instruct a psychologist and evidence he's recovered from the abuse too."

This part is what's insane.

Mothers can be vulnerable but fathers cant. If you have allowed yourself to abused as a man, you are seen as weak and an unfit parent. Disgusting

 

[BrainDad]

"Be careful though, because the vested interests love to attack fathers and anything psychological if the father is the victim will be used to say he is an unfit parent. So he'd probably have to instruct a psychologist and evidence he's recovered from the abuse too."

This part is what's insane.

Mothers can be vulnerable but fathers cant. If you have allowed yourself to abused as a man, you are seen as weak and an unfit parent. Disgusting

Yes. But it's not in the public interest or the best interests of the child.

I don't see this turning out very well for those involved in the longer term. But, that's their risk and their problem.

In the meantime all a father can do is focus on what's best for child and avoid any conflict.

 

[Scotay]

did she take legal aid before you? had you applied ?

She didn't apply for Legal Aid, i assume her solicitor in her criminal cases was the standard ones all get whey they are charged.

I go Legal Aid as part of my case because Social Services became involved.

 

[Ash]

"Be careful though, because the vested interests love to attack fathers and anything psychological if the father is the victim will be used to say he is an unfit parent. So he'd probably have to instruct a psychologist and evidence he's recovered from the abuse too."

This part is what's insane.

Mothers can be vulnerable but fathers cant. If you have allowed yourself to abused as a man, you are seen as weak and an unfit parent. Disgusting

Yep - if it's affected you psychologically, an ex's solicitor could well say you're unfit to care for the child. It's a tightrope.

 

[winger]

If your GP considers you have a condition that is consistent with being a victim of domestic violence

So, how would you defend yourself, if your ex got a GP letter stating their mental health has been affected, 'due to DA'. But in reality they had mental health concerns beforehand, or other stresses in life which caused them to get like this, and it's actually nothing to do with DA?

Would you use evidence to show this stress, or the way they were during the relationship, because of certain things (nothing to do with DA) but for example with my ex, her brother has caused her so much trauma, and she really struggled for the first year of having the baby, especially at night.

I'm just interested how you would go about disproving that any mental health that was being claimed was caused by DA, was not?

My ex's barrister at the first hearing said she has a GP letter, so I wondered if it was something along those lines. And in my post I've said on her GP printout it states she has started medication for anxiety and depression. But I believe this started the day she found out she was pregnant. Things got harder and harder.

Plus she's been depressed / anxious because of family issues, for 10-15 years.

 

[Ash]

I would try not to worry too much about it at this stage.

 

[Pj66]

Not worried, just out of curiosity how many times can a mother apply for legal aid? if they have non molled someone else and previously got legal aid already for that, could they get it again for another unrelated case? ie is there a limit on legal aid applications?

 

[Ash]

I don't know enough about that. I seem to remember that even during one case, the budget can be used up and it run out.

 

[BrainDad]

So, how would you defend yourself, if your ex got a GP letter stating their mental health has been affected, 'due to DA'. But in reality they had mental health concerns beforehand, or other stresses in life which caused them to get like this, and it's actually nothing to do with DA?

Would you use evidence to show this stress, or the way they were during the relationship, because of certain things (nothing to do with DA) but for example with my ex, her brother has caused her so much trauma, and she really struggled for the first year of having the baby, especially at night.

I'm just interested how you would go about disproving that any mental health that was being claimed was caused by DA, was not?

My ex's barrister at the first hearing said she has a GP letter, so I wondered if it was something along those lines. And in my post I've said on her GP printout it states she has started medication for anxiety and depression. But I believe this started the day she found out she was pregnant. Things got harder and harder.

Plus she's been depressed / anxious because of family issues, for 10-15 years.

I'd use Re C para 103 in a child focussed way:

"Before leaving this part of the appeal, one particular paragraph in the ACP skeleton argument deserves to be widely understood and, I would strongly urge, accepted:

‘Much like an allegation of domestic abuse; the decision about whether or not a parent has alienated a child is a question of fact for the Court to resolve and not a diagnosis that can or should be offered by a psychologist."

Domestic violence is not a diagnosis for a GP to make. It is a finding of fact only a court can make. There's evidence to the contrary of what's being alleged, but I don't want conflict and I want to focus on doing what's best for my son / daughter.

Makes them look high conflict and you look reasonable.

 

[winger]

Re C para 103

Thanks Braindad.
What is this? I'd like to look it up, is it from the children's act?

 

[BrainDad]

This Judgment at para 103:

https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/Re-C-Parental-Alienation-judgment-220323.pdf

It's from a High Court judge so you can argue it's persuasive authority for how the court of first instance have to approach allegations of domestic abuse.