HORRIBLE FEELING ITS GOING TO GET WORSE…

[Nujra Rof]

Hi everyone,

Happy new year (sort of).

I’ve got my first joint mediation session next week, mediator told wife in her one to one session we should trial a few days each away from home so other person can experience Sole responsibility (we are sadly under one roof). We had agreed she would go next week, and she said this morning she won’t do it as apparently I said I wouldn’t and just felt like I’m kicking her out the house (I never said this and told her I’m confused and I’ll happily do it but she is the one who has said she thinks I can’t handle the responsibility and doesn’t really trust me and wanted to delay mediation as a result, so I said look there is time before mediation for you to go away for a few days and hopefully that leads to better conversations with more progress). She just kind of brushed off the conversation and moved it on.

I’m really disappointed and thought we could be good co parents. Sadly, I feel like she’s going to drag out this whole process as she’s living for free at our house, always has and I pay for everything.

We have a first hearing for CAO end of this month and was hoping to go in with a draft order but sadly does not look likely.

Finances are a whole other issue, we have just exchanged form e’s but my solicitor suspects she hasn’t had professional advice on it so I’m awaiting her solicitor to reply and confirm she has prior to making an opening offer I guess. But I can see she has no reason to speed this along and I’m the one in the spare room in the house whilst she sleeps In the main bedroom and I pay for all the bills, mortgage etc.

How long can she drag this out?
Our 20 weeks is up in April so can apply for a financial remedy then but realistically what am I looking at for this hell where I’m stuck with her

Any idea or guidance welcome

Thank you

 

[Ash]

You really want the child arrangements sorted before the finances - otherwise you might have to move out without a child arrangements order. So I would suggest having as much delay as possible over the finances. I believe some have delayed form E's for this reason. But that's done now - I'll leave others to post about timescales after that.

The mediator sounds rubbish. I would either say to the mediator that it is not an option either of you moving out temporarily and you're living in separate areas of the house, and you suggest specific schedules while living in your separate areas of the house. But mainly you want to agree schedules for when you separate. Or alternatively, change mediator.

I would still take a draft order to your next hearing and use a barrister, and they might be able to thrash out a deal for you.

There are advantages to the ex, wanting to stay in the house as long as she can - it means she's less likely to do a runner. You just need to find your own space, both mentally and physically while at home.

Happy New Year to you to - onwards and upwards! This time next year, things might be a whole lot better

 

[Nujra Rof]

You really want the child arrangements sorted before the finances - otherwise you might have to move out without a child arrangements order. So I would suggest having as much delay as possible over the finances. I believe some have delayed form E's for this reason. But that's done now - I'll leave others to post about timescales after that.

The mediator sounds rubbish. I would either say to the mediator that it is not an option either of you moving out temporarily and you're living in separate areas of the house, and you suggest specific schedules while living in your separate areas of the house. But mainly you want to agree schedules for when you separate. Or alternatively, change mediator.

I would still take a draft order to your next hearing and use a barrister, and they might be able to thrash out a deal for you.

There are advantages to the ex, wanting to stay in the house as long as she can - it means she's less likely to do a runner. You just need to find your own space, both mentally and physically while at home.

Happy New Year to you to - onwards and upwards! This time next year, things might be a whole lot better

Well I’m going to pick you up on your last line first Ash - “This time next year things might be a whole lot better” - any ideas on timeframe and if this will all be sorted?

I’m actually less worried about finances (not sure if that’s naive me), but we agreed 50-50 of marital home and other assets and my solicitor said that if she argues it (which she probably will given her nature), than we make a slightly more generous offer that I’ve told her I’m happy to make to get things done - and if we walk into court with a record of offers and it’s really fair for her than a good judge should tell her to accept it or she will get less if a judge decides, equally I can reclaim my court costs if she pursues its thereafter. So given I’m happy to be a little more generous on equity share from sale of marital home I’m not fussed.

I’m number one and main not negotiating thing is kids 50/50. Just don’t think she will agree to it and drag it out at court because she’s living for free (FYI - it’s a first hearing for CAO and prohibitive steps order with notice).

Not looking forward to the mediator next week at all but let’s see…

 

[Nujra Rof]

Ps - if you sort finances out before child arrangements is there any issue?

I only ask as she could drag this from first hearing all the way to the final hearing and I think in April I can submit a financial remedy order (if that is what it’s called), but child arrangements may not be sorted still as court dates I imagine would take a while.

 

[Ash]

I think if finances are sorted first, it will force separation, with one of you having to move out and you don't want the separation to happen before you have a Child Arrangements order. Make her wait for the finances until you get the CAO.

How long? It depends. Partly on region and partly on how smoothly things go. If no allegations and it goes to a final hearing, maybe 9 months from the time of application. Maybe a bit less.

 

[Nujra Rof]

I think if finances are sorted first, it will force separation, with one of you having to move out and you don't want the separation to happen before you have a Child Arrangements order. Make her wait for the finances until you get the CAO.

How long? It depends. Partly on region and partly on how smoothly things go. If no allegations and it goes to a final hearing, maybe 9 months from the time of application. Maybe a bit less.

Ok, so nine months if no allegations? So keep it amicable (a friend said as I pay for everything get your solicitor to write her a letter stating she has to pay half, if she can’t afford it then it will come out of the settlement later, not sure how legit this is, but would tip the boat and don’t want that if 9 months max).

To clarify Time of application means when I first put in the c100 - so that would be November I believe because first hearing is end of this month.

If we sort out finances it will take time to get house sold as can only realistically file the financial remedy order in April I think, then judge has to approve so looking at June. Then we have to sell the home, even if by a miracle a buyer is found quickly it will take 3 months to sell so looking at September I guess…

 

[Nujra Rof]

I mean if we agree finances then child arrangements - it doesn’t invalidate financial arrangements later on does it? As I’m looking for a clean break order

 

[Ash]

It depends if she wants Child Maintenance in a financial order. If you have a 50/50 child arrangements order FIRST then there will be no child maintenance in the financial order. If the financial order gets finalised first, and she gets child maintenance as part of it - that immediately means you won't get 50/50 child arrangements! Because if there is child maintenance it means the mother has more than 50/50. I would try and delay the financial order until after Child Arrangements order.

 

[Nujra Rof]

It depends if she wants Child Maintenance in a financial order. If you have a 50/50 child arrangements order FIRST then there will be no child maintenance in the financial order. If the financial order gets finalised first, and she gets child maintenance as part of it - that immediately means you won't get 50/50 child arrangements! Because if there is child maintenance it means the mother has more than 50/50. I would try and delay the financial order until after Child Arrangements order.

But if we agreed 50-50 - just her version of what 50-50 looks like is different to mine than child is 60-40 in her favour, hypothetically, could she reverse the financial order to get maintenance or bigger share later on as house hasn’t sold?

 

[Bud21]

I've agreed a 50/50 arrangement, however the Mediator is pushing us to look at the CMS calculator that shows Maintenance would be due. It's a real grey area as I think with equal shared care maintenance isn't due to be paid. I've offered a voluntary amount for 12 months (in order for the judge to sign off that all needs are being met) but I'm concerned this is setting a position where I am the paying parent despite my belief no maintenance is due. Any advice here?

 

[Ash]

If, at a financial hearing, 50/50 has been ordered, then Child Maintenance shouldn't come into it at all. If an amount is agreed at a financial hearing AFTER a 50/50 order, then that only lasts for a year - after that you go by CMS assessment and there should be nothing to pay. BUT. The main thing, with a 50/50 order is that the wording is clear that it's equal shared care and the timings show equal amounts of time. So you need the order writing up well.

 

[Nujra Rof]

If, at a financial hearing, 50/50 has been ordered, then Child Maintenance shouldn't come into it at all. If an amount is agreed at a financial hearing AFTER a 50/50 order, then that only lasts for a year - after that you go by CMS assessment and there should be nothing to pay. BUT. The main thing, with a 50/50 order is that the wording is clear that it's equal shared care and the timings show equal amounts of time. So you need the order writing up well.

Interesting - so let’s say it’s 50-50 equal shared care. Everything is split equally. Now say the guy is on £150k and Mrs on £23k (just using made up figures for example purposes), given it’s 50-50, despite the income parity, the spouse earning more still wouldn’t have to pay cms?

 

[Ash]

No CMS for either parent, providing it's a 50/50 CAO (and PROVIDING THE ORDER IS WRITTEN WELL).

 

[Nujra Rof]

Oh wow ok! I thought it was based around income as well as child share

No CMS for either parent, providing it's a 50/50 CAO (and PROVIDING THE ORDER IS WRITTEN WELL).

percentage

 

[Bud21]

Will I get a Child Arrangements order post mediation? At the moment they are drafting a Memorum Of Understanding

 

[Ash]

Hi Bud - maybe start a new thread of your own and you'll get more individual responses

 

[Ash]

Oh wow ok! I thought it was based around income as well as child share


percentage

Income only comes into it, if CMS is actually due. If it's unequal time - eg slightly more time with ex than with you, then you would need to pay CMS, a percentage of your GROSS income. Sadly this is regardless of how much the ex earns! Should could be a multi millionairess and you'd still have to pay CMS. It's a rubbish system. But if you have 50/50 CAO - WELL WORDED to be clear it is equal shared care and equal time - then neither pays CMS - you basically share any costs between you and are expected to do so. So share cost of uniform, school trips etc. Which is the best way really.