Handovers - who is named in Court Order

[BigLes]

Hi All,
I just read a post on a Family law advice FB group. The post read something along the lines of: “my ex has sent his partner/parent/au pair (or whatever) to drop-off/pick-up our child. The court order says that father does the drop-offs/pick-ups, is this a breach of the order?”.

All the answers in the FB group were along the lines of “the court order says ‘dad’ does the handovers therefore it’s a breach of the order and you should report him etc etc”.

I hadn’t ever considered this. In a normal sane practical world then a nominated responsible person should be able to conduct the handovers; however, it’s perfectly possible that a difficult co-parent will refuse to perform the handover if it’s not actually ‘dad’ that’s present.

Does anyone have any experience in this? Is it worth including “father (or a trusted person nominated by father) to drop-off at 6pm”. I would never have imagined someone could be this petty so as to insist on the names individuals undertaking the handovers, but the more I think of it, the more I think it’s possible.

 

[Resolute]

My orders were written as mother will make child available to father...

It was mum's responsibility to make the child available. There was another section that dished out responsibility for travel, something like: father is responsible for travel relating to pick up from school, mother is responsible for travel at the weekend.

An order written like that is open to somebody else being nominated.

My final order is also written in a way that would allow a nominated individual. I have never used the option, but I could nominate somebody to pickup from school. Because I have a good relationship with the school, I am sure mum wouldn't be involved if I chose to use a substitute.

This FB group sounds like it is largely parents who have "live with" orders in their favour. My understanding is if you have parental responsibility, you are entitled to use the childcare you deem appropriate for your time.

Many of us are paying mum, so she can pay a club or childminder to look after the kid(s). If I had mine for the time she is farmed out, she'd see more of me than she does of her mum.

 

[BigLes]

Thanks, it seems in my mind that a simple solution then is to suggest that:
“Mother/father responsible for drop-off at 6pm at father’s/mother’s home”
rather than
“Mum/dad to drop-off at 6pm to dad/mum”

“Responsible for” could incorporate a nominated person undertaking the handovers in the parent’s stead. That then covers all bases. Maybe I’m thinking too hard about this, but I guess it’s important to consider all potential problems when drafting a wording.

 

[Da7thSon]

I have a clause in my order that states "Each parent agrees to responsibly delegate their parental responsibilities to any other individual or family members, for the collection and return of the children".. this is to cover if either parent is ill or stuck in work for example which seams reasonable.

But I cant see you being done for breaking a court order if someone else has to collect because you are ill for example.

Hope this helps

 

[Ash]

The way the order is written is important. If the dates and times are defined (ie set out) correctly there shouldn't be any need to say who does drop offs and pickups. For example if it says

The Child lives with both parents:

Commencing x date

With Father - Friday xth from school until Monday morning school drop off and every Wednesday from school until Friday morning school drop off. Plus half the school holidays.

Then later says - all school holidays to commence from the last day of term at the time school finishes, and end on the first day of the following term.

That way it's clear that all collections and drop offs are to and from school, even at the start and end of holidays. The only exception would be holiday dates within school holiday periods where it would be expected the Father collects from the Mother's home unless it says different anywhere or unless they've agreed something else - eg another location. It would be the same for spends time with but then it is almost always from the Mother's home in school holidays as she has to make the children "available" on a certain day and at a certain time (although technically she could make them available at a different agreed location but it's assumed it's from their legal home).

If the order wording is like that above, the child is in your care from the time they finish school and as you have PR it is entirely up to you, who you delegate to collect and drop them off and the Mother has no say.

However, if it's a spends time with order rather than lives with, while the same applies, the Mother might try pulling the "parent with care" card with the school and saying only designated people can collect - ie just you no-one else. School then feel in the middle so do what the Mother wants as she has "residency".

In my order it also specifically says "The Father will facilitate school collections and drop offs on his days". The word facilitate allows you to delegate - the main thing is, it's your responsibility to organise collections and drop offs whether it's personally or by delegation.

I had to have that line in because my ex had previously stopped the school collections and I got them back again at final hearing, so it was specifically in the order for that reason.

So while it's not technically necessary to have it in the order, if the times and dates are clearly defined, if it's a spends time with order, it can save hassle later if there is a line that says

"The Father will faciliate all collections and drop offs to and from school on the days the children are in his care". And if you don't want her arguing what facilitate means you could add to that "either directly or the Father may delegate someone else to collect the children for him".

The problem with adding that last bit is it immediately gets the ex's back up wondering who it might be and a feel of loss of control - like a red rag to a bull and they could argue that point interminably and waste hearing time so other important things get overlooked.

Another way to have it could be "Each parent will facilitate school collections and drop offs on their respective court ordered days with the children". Then it makes it clear it's the same for both. If she uses someone else, you can too.

I am wondering if there is another word other than facilitate that an ex couldn't pick holes with - possibly

"Each parent will be responsible for ensuring the children are collected and dropped off to and from school on their respective court ordered days with the children".

I would go with that last one which might be watertight!

 

[Ash]

Interesting though, the FB post, as it's clear that ex's really really don't like Dad;s partner doing collections and drop offs! Yet it is seen as perfectly normal and reasonable and happens a lot - because families make their own arrangements. Unless an ex kicks up a stink about it as in this case. But no it is not a breach. But to avoid a load of harrassment and disruption, it would be good if it's clear in an order, without being too in your face about it with the Mother.

 

[Loops88]

We had this issue....court order states dad pick up and drop off to mums house. She refuses to let anyone else pick up if I was not in the car....presented problems when I had a operation which prevented me from getting into the front of the car and not enough space for everyone then in the car. She refused anyone else to collect neither would she drop off

We need to go back to court to get this changed....but shouldn't have too as so petty!

 

[KF31]

I’d be careful as my partners court order stated that the handovers were to take place between the grandmother and father or another third party if the grandmother was unavailable. This was to avoid conflict as mum would always belittle dad at handovers.

Mum started doing a lot of handovers and again would belittle dad and say inappropriate things. My partner has just finished an enforcement hearing and one of the complaints he put forward was that mum was doing a lot of the handovers despite the order stating this was to be facilitated by the grandmother or other third party. The judge said no breach had occurred as there was no bar in place to stop mum being at the handovers.

 

[KF31]

Sorry I read the original post wrong so my previous comment doesn’t really apply, but my partner had it put into the court order who should facilitate handovers because of the issues mum was causing at handovers, which is why it changed to grandmother or other third party. So I don’t see why they couldn’t add in other third party for the dad too.