Gps tracker found

[Scoobsoo]

There is a interim cao in place which allows me to pick up my grandchildren for 3 hours a week. I have to inform the mother of the location beforehand, this is not in the court order but additional requirements which have been put in place by the mother.
Both mine and my son’s c100 applications are being heard together which really complicates things. The mother has breached court order by refusing to make children available once a week for supervised contact with father at centre. Cafcass have written to the court informing them that mother refuses to comply.
during my contact I have found a gps tracker which was concealed within the lining of the childrens bag. Mother has been tracking my movements without my knowledge, waiting for where I tell her I'm going to differ from the gps data so she can exercise PR and stop contact altogether. Unfortunate for her I have not taken the children anywhere I haven’t told her about. Mother is now breaching further directions as she has not contacted me to make any further arrangements since.
My question is where do I stand with this sort of behaviour? It’s not something I ever expected to happen and Im quite upset she has done this.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you

 

[Ash]

Did you tell her you'd found the tracker? Is that why she's not contacted you to make arrangements since? You need to be able to prove that you found the tracker. Did you take a photograph?

I take it this is an interim order that's being breached for your son, and now also for you. Depending on when the next hearing is, and whether the interim time is actually "ordered" on the order (or just under recitals), you could submit an enforcement application to get the time back.

I'm sorry you're upset - it's an unpleasant business - but be prepared to expect anything! Unfortunately some Mothers do resort to this type of behaviour.

 

[Scoobsoo]

Thank you for your reply. I didn’t mention anything to her as I didn’t want to run the risk of any conflict especially with the children present. She would definitely know I found it as it was sewn into the lining and I had to unpick the stitching to see what was being concealed.
Yes I have photos.
Yes, mother is breaching interim order for my son which is preventing sec 7 Also breaching interim cao in place for myself. Both interim orders being breached are ‘ordered’.
My son has had his hearing brought forward and that is due to take place next week. As my breach is fairly recent Im not really sure on next steps to take.

 

[Ash]

Ok. I think it could be worth submitting a C2 enforcement to the court (application within existing proceedings) for enforcing your order and stating that your son has a hearing for a breach for the same child next week. The downside is there is a fee to pay. Also it might not get processed in time for both breaches to be heard together (I assume they would do that but I don't know). So you'd need to be quick getting an application in. When you say next week for your son's enforcement, do you mean this coming week?

Quickest way would be to take the C2 into court yourself and wait and get it dealt with while you're there. Then you get to speak to someone and they can tell you if they can make the hearing for both of you or if it would need a separate one. It would make sense to do them in one hearing and save court time, when it's about the same child.

It's not a big form to fill in. Under the details section, you start by listing the breaches eg

Breaches:

Wednesday 21st August 1pm to 4pm
Sunday 25th August 1pm to 4pm

Then a brief explanation of what has happened. You can say that although it isn't ordered, the Mother required you to tell her where you were going each time, if you wanted to spend time with the child. You obliged and gave her that information or you wouldn't have been able to see the child.

On x date while the child was with you, you noticed some object was sewn into the lining of the childrens bag. You unpicked the stitches and there was a GPS tracker inside the bag. Although you didn't mention to the Mother that you had found the GPS tracker it would have been clear to her as the lining of the bag was unstitched. She has since refused to allow you to see the child.

You attach photographs of the GPS tracker and the bag lining where it was removed.

You ask the court to enforce the order, and wish the court to note that an enforcement hearing is already listed later this week for the childrens father (your son) and request both cases are heard on the same day.

Then if you can, take the form into the court at 9.30am and wait at the desk for the family section. You can pay the fee while there, have the application issued while you wait (it needs to be checked by a gatekeeper) and you'll be given a date for a hearing, and if you explain that there is already a hearing listed this week regarding the children, for their Father you can then ask if both cases can be heard on the same day.

C2 form here

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/62da6516d3bf7f2862f26a5c/C2_0722_save.pdf

 

[mikeayo1891]

Ok. I think it could be worth submitting a C79 enforcement to the court (application within existing proceedings) for enforcing your order and stating that your son has a hearing for a breach for the same child next week. The downside is there is a fee to pay. Also it might not get processed in time for both breaches to be heard together (I assume they would do that but I don't know). So you'd need to be quick getting an application in. When you say next week for your son's enforcement, do you mean this coming week?

Quickest way would be to take the C79 into court yourself and wait and get it dealt with while you're there. Then you get to speak to someone and they can tell you if they can make the hearing for both of you or if it would need a separate one. It would make sense to do them in one hearing and save court time, when it's about the same child.

It's not a big form to fill in. Under the details section, you start by listing the breaches eg

Breaches:

Wednesday 21st August 1pm to 4pm
Sunday 25th August 1pm to 4pm

Then a brief explanation of what has happened. You can say that although it isn't ordered, the Mother required you to tell her where you were going each time, if you wanted to spend time with the child. You obliged and gave her that information or you wouldn't have been able to see the child.

On x date while the child was with you, you noticed some object was sewn into the lining of the childrens bag. You unpicked the stitches and there was a GPS tracker inside the bag. Although you didn't mention to the Mother that you had found the GPS tracker it would have been clear to her as the lining of the bag was unstitched. She has since refused to allow you to see the child.

You attach photographs of the GPS tracker and the bag lining where it was removed.

You ask the court to enforce the order, and wish the court to note that an enforcement hearing is already listed later this week for the childrens father (your son) and request both cases are heard on the same day.

Then if you can, take the form into the court at 9.30am and wait at the desk for the family section. You can pay the fee while there, have the application issued while you wait (it needs to be checked by a gatekeeper) and you'll be given a date for a hearing, and if you explain that there is already a hearing listed this week regarding the children, for their Father you can then ask if both cases can be heard on the same day.

C79 form here

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/632986918fa8f53cb77ef67b/C79_0522_save.pdf

Did you mean to say C2 application rather than a C79? A C2 is for application within proceedings while a C79 is for a case that has already been closed. I think its a C2 that is most applicable in this case if he wants to join his son's proceedings.

 

[Nanaforsonsjustice]

If you have a barrister representing you can use the below case law or can still use it if LIP.

In the case of M v F (covert recording of children) [2016] EWFC 29, a father sewed recording devices into the lining of his child’s clothing to find out what was being said in meetings between the child and a social worker. The judge stated that “it is almost always likely to be wrong for a recording device to be placed on a child…this should hardly need saying…such activities normally say more about the recorder that the recorded”. Ultimately, the judge in that case made an order in terms that the child should live with the mother, rather than the father, and for the father to pay the mother’s legal costs incurred in relation to dealing with the covert recordings.

 

[Ash]

Did you mean to say C2 application rather than a C79? A C2 is for application within proceedings while a C79 is for a case that has already been closed. I think its a C2 that is most applicable in this case if he wants to join his son's proceedings.

Yes I did mean to say C2 sorry. I've edited above and changed the link. It was a bit late last night! As Nana says - the courts take things like that very seriously - using the children to spy on someone.

 

[Scoobsoo]

Ok. I think it could be worth submitting a C79 enforcement to the court (application within existing proceedings) for enforcing your order and stating that your son has a hearing for a breach for the same child next week. The downside is there is a fee to pay. Also it might not get processed in time for both breaches to be heard together (I assume they would do that but I don't know). So you'd need to be quick getting an application in. When you say next week for your son's enforcement, do you mean this coming week?

Quickest way would be to take the C79 into court yourself and wait and get it dealt with while you're there. Then you get to speak to someone and they can tell you if they can make the hearing for both of you or if it would need a separate one. It would make sense to do them in one hearing and save court time, when it's about the same child.

It's not a big form to fill in. Under the details section, you start by listing the breaches eg

Breaches:

Wednesday 21st August 1pm to 4pm
Sunday 25th August 1pm to 4pm

Then a brief explanation of what has happened. You can say that although it isn't ordered, the Mother required you to tell her where you were going each time, if you wanted to spend time with the child. You obliged and gave her that information or you wouldn't have been able to see the child.

On x date while the child was with you, you noticed some object was sewn into the lining of the childrens bag. You unpicked the stitches and there was a GPS tracker inside the bag. Although you didn't mention to the Mother that you had found the GPS tracker it would have been clear to her as the lining of the bag was unstitched. She has since refused to allow you to see the child.

You attach photographs of the GPS tracker and the bag lining where it was removed.

You ask the court to enforce the order, and wish the court to note that an enforcement hearing is already listed later this week for the childrens father (your son) and request both cases are heard on the same day.

Then if you can, take the form into the court at 9.30am and wait at the desk for the family section. You can pay the fee while there, have the application issued while you wait (it needs to be checked by a gatekeeper) and you'll be given a date for a hearing, and if you explain that there is already a hearing listed this week regarding the children, for their Father you can then ask if both cases can be heard on the same day.

C79 form here

Ok. I think it could be worth submitting a C79 enforcement to the court (application within existing proceedings) for enforcing your order and stating that your son has a hearing for a breach for the same child next week. The downside is there is a fee to pay. Also it might not get processed in time for both breaches to be heard together (I assume they would do that but I don't know). So you'd need to be quick getting an application in. When you say next week for your son's enforcement, do you mean this coming week?

Quickest way would be to take the C79 into court yourself and wait and get it dealt with while you're there. Then you get to speak to someone and they can tell you if they can make the hearing for both of you or if it would need a separate one. It would make sense to do them in one hearing and save court time, when it's about the same child.

It's not a big form to fill in. Under the details section, you start by listing the breaches eg

Breaches:

Wednesday 21st August 1pm to 4pm
Sunday 25th August 1pm to 4pm

Then a brief explanation of what has happened. You can say that although it isn't ordered, the Mother required you to tell her where you were going each time, if you wanted to spend time with the child. You obliged and gave her that information or you wouldn't have been able to see the child.

On x date while the child was with you, you noticed some object was sewn into the lining of the childrens bag. You unpicked the stitches and there was a GPS tracker inside the bag. Although you didn't mention to the Mother that you had found the GPS tracker it would have been clear to her as the lining of the bag was unstitched. She has since refused to allow you to see the child.

You attach photographs of the GPS tracker and the bag lining where it was removed.

You ask the court to enforce the order, and wish the court to note that an enforcement hearing is already listed later this week for the childrens father (your son) and request both cases are heard on the same day.

Then if you can, take the form into the court at 9.30am and wait at the desk for the family section. You can pay the fee while there, have the application issued while you wait (it needs to be checked by a gatekeeper) and you'll be given a date for a hearing, and if you explain that there is already a hearing listed this week regarding the children, for their Father you can then ask if both cases can be heard on the same day.

C79 form here

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/632986918fa8f53cb77ef67b/C79_0522_save.pdf

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/632986918fa8f53cb77ef67b/C79_0522_save.pdf

Yes I did mean to say C2 sorry. I've edited above and changed the link. It was a bit late last night!

Thank you so much, your advice is really helpful. My son’s hearing is early the following week . Im going to do what you suggested. I will come back and let you know how things go.

 

[Scoobsoo]

If you have a barrister representing you can use the below case law or can still use it if LIP.

In the case of M v F (covert recording of children) [2016] EWFC 29, a father sewed recording devices into the lining of his child’s clothing to find out what was being said in meetings between the child and a social worker. The judge stated that “it is almost always likely to be wrong for a recording device to be placed on a child…this should hardly need saying…such activities normally say more about the recorder that the recorded”. Ultimately, the judge in that case made an order in terms that the child should live with the mother, rather than the father, and for the father to pay the mother’s legal costs incurred in relation to dealing with the covert recordings.

Thank you for this case law, Its really helpful to me being a LIP neither myself or my son have legal representation unfortunately.

 

[AmIAStepMumNow]

I have visions of this happening to us as cuddly toys keep being passed to us for SD to have in her room - toys that used to live in her Mums house... that have zips in the back of them!!!

 

[Ash]

It has been known. Just assume you're being listened to and be careful!

 

[Nanaforsonsjustice]

I have visions of this happening to us as cuddly toys keep being passed to us for SD to have in her room - toys that used to live in her Mums house... that have zips in the back of them!!!

My son’s worried about this too. His ex has form for covert recordings, even recording police officers and clipping the footage to make her to be in a favourable light. It didn't wash with the magistrates and they warned her against making further recordings….we still don’t trust she won’t though. My son won’t let any toys come from mums house to his, or any other items just in case. The only item the magistrates said that would come is a toy/comforter the child couldn’t be with out. Thankfully my son’s child doesn’t have anything he can’t be with out despite being 2. The ex did try to push a toy on the first overnight but my son said it wasn’t needed as he had the exact same toy at his too.

 

[lunico93x]

There is a interim cao in place which allows me to pick up my grandchildren for 3 hours a week. I have to inform the mother of the location beforehand, this is not in the court order but additional requirements which have been put in place by the mother.
Both mine and my son’s c100 applications are being heard together which really complicates things. The mother has breached court order by refusing to make children available once a week for supervised contact with father at centre. Cafcass have written to the court informing them that mother refuses to comply.
during my contact I have found a gps tracker which was concealed within the lining of the childrens bag. Mother has been tracking my movements without my knowledge, waiting for where I tell her I'm going to differ from the gps data so she can exercise PR and stop contact altogether. Unfortunate for her I have not taken the children anywhere I haven’t told her about. Mother is now breaching further directions as she has not contacted me to make any further arrangements since.
My question is where do I stand with this sort of behaviour? It’s not something I ever expected to happen and Im quite upset she has done this.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you

Make a police report. This is coercive and controlling, to say the least.

 

[Scotay]

I have visions of this happening to us as cuddly toys keep being passed to us for SD to have in her room - toys that used to live in her Mums house... that have zips in the back of them!!!

Yep this happened to me years ago.

My ex gave my daughter a cuddly toy as a gift during a contact session, me thinking nothing of it.
The toy was on my daughters bed and i was sitting reading to her when i felt it vibrate against my ass, it was an old nokia set to auto answer and the vibration was it running out of battery after weeks.