Global paymemt

[Seb]

Hi,
Does anyone know if a global payment should still be going if the ex wife re-marries?
In 2015, I’ve been ordered to pay a global amount monthly for the maintenance of the ex-wife and the children until the youngest child becomes 18 or finishes the school. The amount is the same and includes the child maintenance amount as well.
I’ve read some articles where they mentioned that if the ex remarried, this amount is automatically cancelled and I should pay just the child maintenance.
Where can this be verified?
The ex, remarried in 2019, but I still pay her the global maintenance.
I’m still kind of a sponsor as she married, sold the house I left to her and the children, bought a cheaper one, bought herself an expensive SUV, ATV… and the most low side of herself is that she alienated the children against me telling them they got a better life without me in their lives. Did not see them for more than 2 years …
Thank you.

 

[Roblox]

Hi. Sorry are you based in the UK. Not familiar with the term global payment.

I believe that in most cases in the UK you have child maintenance and then possibly some kind of spousal maintenance but that usually ends after a period of time.

If she's remarried she shouldn't still be getting spousal maintenance but I suppose it depends exactly what was agreed in the divorce.

 

[Ash]

I'm not familiar with the term global payment either. But in Uk law, if child maintenance is ordered as part of a divorce, that order only stands for 1 year. After that you can be assessed directly by the Child Maintenance Service for Child Maintenance. Spousal maintenance is something else. If that is ordered you have to pay it - but most orders will only order it for say 3 to 5 years to give the wife chance to retrain and earn - not for life.

And yes spousal maintenance ends when the wife remarries. Unless your order has a special clause?

It can also be varied and depends on the payer's ability to pay. But if it's over a year since the divorce went through I think you should be looking at cancelling spousal maintenance and asking the CMS to assess you for child maintenance. Better you start the assessment than her as then they know you're not trying to avoid it. They will just take figures from your tax records and calculate it - it might be less than the Child Maintenance Calculator says (as I found) once you have a full assessment.

Suggest you have a free half hour's legal advice with a Solicitor to see how to go about dealing with the matter and make sure your order doesn't include Spousal even if she remarries!

Ultimate Guide to Spousal Maintenance | Mediate UK

What is spousal maintenance & are you entitled to claim for it? It is certainly something that should be considered. Read our ultimate guide.

www.mediateuk.co.uk

Calculate your child maintenance

Use this calculator to work out an amount of child maintenance for your children.

www.gov.uk

 

[Ash]

Just been reading up about Global maintenance. There's a good family law article below - it sounds unfair and I think you should look at appealing the original order. It's where a sum is ordered to include both child and spousal maintenance and it's an exact monthly sum. So even if CMS later assesses a lower amount of CM the full total still has to be paid.

I think you'd have a good case to ask for it to be scrapped. Your Ex has remarried, she kept the house and you have been assessed by the CMS now (so start that ball rolling).

I am sorry to hear she alienated your children - are you now seeing them? Usual advice on hear is - get the child arrangements ordered before completing the divorce financials (so you can't be blackmailed or your children used as "hostage").

Can the court order global maintenance?

The first decision of a higher court to consider the jurisdiction to make a global maintenance order has concluded that the orders are permissible

www.familylaw.co.uk

 

[Ash]

From what I can see, the global payment is ordered so the spousal element includes a proportion towards the childrens needs (eg school fees until a certain age). I can't find if it can be cancelled or varied on remarriage - you'll need legal advice.

 

[Seb]

Hi. Sorry are you based in the UK. Not familiar with the term global payment.

I believe that in most cases in the UK you have child maintenance and then possibly some kind of spousal maintenance but that usually ends after a period of time.

If she's remarried she shouldn't still be getting spousal maintenance but I suppose it depends exactly what was agreed in the divorce.

Yes. Based in Uk
It’s not mentioned anything about the ex changes of circumstances.
Some lawyers said that the orders are not done with a clear view and correct terms.

 

[Ash]

The article I read said global orders aren't a good thing and should only be done as an interim, not a permanent solution. Obviously it's in your ex's favour but highly unfair, unless you happen to be mega rich!

Sounds like you need a really good lawyer. I am actually wondering if a barrister consultation might be better. It could cost £1000 plus VAT (but a Solicitor can run up costs higher than that very quickly for not achieving anything). The one thing you will get from that is very good advice from an expert. And that advice will be much more sound than you get from any solicitor - a barrister will most likely tell you straight whether you can change it or not, if it's worded correctly and valid, and options for what to do about it. I mean a direct access barrister. I've used one a couple of times and they really know their stuff. Like Solicitors though, some are better than others. You'll need one very experienced in matrimonial issues (in the family law section), read their blurb on their page in their Chambers, then google them to see if they're in the Legal500 and what it says about them. If they're not highly rated in the Legal 500, don't bother.

Barristers are experts in the law and court orders. They will find any discrepancies or loopholes or anything grounds for overturning it or appeal with their knowledge of case law.

 

[Seb]

I am sorry to hear she alienated your children - are you now seeing them?

Still not.
Did not see 2 of them since September 2019 after the mother sold the house and moved out of London. Told the children she moved cause of me, I don’t care about them anymore and many other allegations.
My oldest son lived with me and offered to take the Christmas presents to their new place but their mother refused him to bring them in her house. She never refused my money in her account…

 

[Roblox]

Have you considered going via court for child access?

 

[Seb]

Have you considered going via court for child access?

I’m considering it. Just have to wait for 2 years to pass since the last court hearing in October 2020. I’m thinking how to involve a physiatrist to check on my children well-being as since the contact has been stopped, I’ve been called a stalker if I tried to see their social profiles and also all the connections with their friends, relatives, grandparents, looks like all their memories for the last 15 years have been deleted completely. Anyway, when I talked last time to them, they only complained about their mother’s sufferings and her complains and during the last court hearing they did not want to speak to me anymore. Completely opposite as they used to spend all their holidays with me and every other weekend. Since the mother married again, children’s attitude changed and after their move, her new husband told me directly on the phone that they are not my children anymore cause I do not give them enough money.
My children were always afraid about the mother’s restrictions and we had to communicate in secret but that stopped too as she found out about it and they blocked me on all the apps. I did not open any fake accounts as my oldest is keeping me sometimes informed that they are healthy and ok.
Still, I have sleepless nights thinking of them, I meet them in my dreams and I cry, but it hurts more as they’re crying too.
Hope there will be more common sense in the future to get things decided more properly in the interest of the children and facts not ignored and let decided by untrained people.

 

[Ash]

I think I remember you saying before about the eldest son living with you and taking Christmas presents - and the situation with the children. You were barred from applying to court again for two years, is that right? Was anything at all ordered last time? Indirect contact even? Sometimes sending a regular postcard is good - you can't be accused of stalking then especially if indirect contact is ordered. It sounds like the Mother manages their social media (to find out).

 

[Seb]

I think I remember you saying before about the eldest son living with you and taking Christmas presents - and the situation with the children. You were barred from applying to court again for two years, is that right? Was anything at all ordered last time? Indirect contact even? Sometimes sending a regular postcard is good - you can't be accused of stalking then especially if indirect contact is ordered. It sounds like the Mother manages their social media (to find out).

Yes, that’s right. The only way if I wanted to send birthday wishes or Christmas wishes was via email to their mother, so she can check them first. The mother did not provided that email address untill December 2021 via my oldest son but I was not willing to do it via her checks. It’s ridiculous how the family love and links are destroyed and the next generations will not have the opportunity to feel the real unconditional love, care and the indifference, ignorance and less interest in the family members is taking over slowly but inevitable.

 

[Emiliska]

Hi,
Does anyone know if a global payment should still be going if the ex wife re-marries?
In 2015, I’ve been ordered to pay a global amount monthly for the maintenance of the ex-wife and the children until the youngest child becomes 18 or finishes the school. The amount is the same and includes the child maintenance amount as well.
I’ve read some articles where they mentioned that if the ex remarried, this amount is automatically cancelled and I should pay just the child maintenance.
Where can this be verified?
The ex, remarried in 2019, but I still pay her the global maintenance.
I’m still kind of a sponsor as she married, sold the house I left to her and the children, bought a cheaper one, bought herself an expensive SUV, ATV… and the most low side of herself is that she alienated the children against me telling them they got a better life without me in their lives. Did not see them for more than 2 years …
Thank you.

How do you even get in this situation?

 

[Ash]

How do you even get in this situation?

I think it was part of his divorce financials in court.

 

[Seb]

How do you even get in this situation?

Initially, there were 2 houses involved at the time both still with a Mortgage payment plan. We both kept one each. The global payment was set by the judge so she can afford the payments towards the mortgage and other bills and included the child maintenance amount as well.
She remarried, sold the house, bought a cheaper one 2 years She’s mortgage free now and I still pay her. On the order only mentions about the children, not her circumstances

 

[Ash]

So the original purpose of the global order is no longer there - to enable her to pay a mortgage. Although she would probably argue that she just bought a different house and still has a mortgage. I think it could be worth trying to get it varied but you'd need legal advice. And dig out all the paperwork for the hearing with the reasons the global order was made. I'm surprised your solicitors agreed to it. But circumstances have changed - she is not a single mum with a mortgage now. She has remarried. Are there any school fees for the kids? That's sometimes included in a global order I believe. Is there a date by when the global order ceases? ie when the kids are 18 or 21 or something? In which case that shows it's just for the kids and not spousal.

With any order it should be based on your ability to pay as well. Can you afford to live while paying this? What would your CM assessment be currently? If applying to have it cancelled/varied you could argue that under CM you would pay x amount for the children which is plenty now ex is remarried, and it would enable you to also provide a decent home for them to spend time with you in.

 

[Unknown83]

I had to register to comment on this. There is something very, very wrong with this order as is often the case with these "spousal support by the back door" global maintenance orders. They (Segal Orders) were meant to be for self employed very high earners to ensure that they didn't fiddle the books to avoid child maintenance. They are also only properly awarded where a substantive element of spousal maintenance should be paid.

There is an extremely good reason why this global order should no longer exist and that is because your ex-wife has remarried, as you said in your original post. She has no claim to spousal maintenance. I suspect the original order said words to that effect. Even if it didn't, I would in your circumstances go to CMS, get assessed and only pay her that amount.

Leave her to go to court at her expense. The end result will be the order being terminated and I doubt a judge would award her costs for such a frivolous claim.

 

[Ash]

Welcome Unknown83 and thanks very much for your very helpful advice and knowledge about these matters . Sounds like your answer Seb. Let her go to court.

However you said you didn't see the children for two years due to her behaviour, which suggests you are now seeing them and I expect if payment is just stopped she will retaliate using the kids again possibly. So just wondering if there is a way round that. Do you have a good court order? If so it would be very difficult for her to just stop them seeing you and if she did (and tried to alienate them) would sugges applying for residency immediately.

Unknown83 would you suggest a kind of "letter before action" - before changing the payment amount to CMS assessment? Warning her things would be changing?

 

[Unknown83]

OP's ex has had the upper hand for too long. She needs a lesson in justice. Claiming global maintenance for three years after getting married is taking the piss and if this was ordered by a court then I would be extremely surprised if it wasn't ordered to end if the ex-wife remarried. My first thought would be to check the original order and ensure she hasn't been fraudulently receiving the spousal maintenance portion for the last three years. That would be quite useful evidence of her coercive controlling behaviour (financial abuse) if she starts making life difficult about child contact and has to be dragged to court. Especially if the contact stops when payment she shouldn't have been getting stopped!

If the global maintenance order does not end on remarriage on the recipient, my first call would be to the solicitor who represented me to ask why the bloody hell not and sue them for negligence. Then I would tell the ex-wife the payment was stopping in a letter. I'd leave her to take it to court. The court would end the order because it does not have jurisdiction over child matters (Segal Orders MUST have a spousal element to them because the court knows it does not have jurisdiction for child maintenance. That is also why global orders can be reduced by the amount of child maintenance paid separately). No solicitor would encourage the ex-wife to waste money pursuing it.

 

[Seb]

I had to register to comment on this. There is something very, very wrong with this order as is often the case with these "spousal support by the back door" global maintenance orders. They (Segal Orders) were meant to be for self employed very high earners to ensure that they didn't fiddle the books to avoid child maintenance. They are also only properly awarded where a substantive element of spousal maintenance should be paid.

There is an extremely good reason why this global order should no longer exist and that is because your ex-wife has remarried, as you said in your original post. She has no claim to spousal maintenance. I suspect the original order said words to that effect. Even if it didn't, I would in your circumstances go to CMS, get assessed and only pay her that amount.

Leave her to go to court at her expense. The end result will be the order being terminated and I doubt a judge would award her costs for such a frivolous claim.

Hi. Thank you for your opinion. I did used to work as self employed when I filled for divorce. It’s really obvious and logically, once she’s selling the house and becomes mortgage free on another house, gets married, this support should have been cancelled. In my mind, I was hopping that the money were used for the children. Still she alienated then against me telling them that they have a better life without me and heard she’s spending on expensive cars and few more unnecessary items. Used to hide the info of her new husband living in our old house before they moved. Still family courts play a blind eye to obvious facts and award mothers what they want.
I’m not

However you said you didn't see the children for two years due to her behaviour, which suggests you are now seeing them

Still did not see them or spoken to them. On my last try to send them Christmas gifts via their older brother, their mother threaten me will go to the police to get me arrested and told our son he’s only allowed to visit them without my gifts.