Guest viewing is limited

Final Welfare Hearing experiences

blindex

Experienced member
Staff member
Moderator
I hopefully should have a final hearing listed soon. My ex made a large number of false allegations and obtained a NMO against me. I did not see my children for six months, then moved to a contact centre and now have daily unsupervised contact twice a week (interim). A District Judge dismissed her request for a Fact Finding hearing, she appealed against the decision but it was denied.

Long story short, I'm fed up with case management, directions hearing, and all this bs.

I'm interested to know about how mother's who lie and obstruct contact are dealt with by judges in a final hearing....
 
Hi there. I am sure you are fed up with it. The Family court is not a criminal court though - it's seen as a civil matter. So they won't be dealing with her or punishing her or whatever. It's something people find quite hard to accept. The court is looking at two things. Are there any welfare issues? (Your ex tried to create some and they were dismissed) and what is in the best interests of the child. When there are no welfare issues, the best interests of the child are regular and significant time with both parents, so you should get a decent order.

Yes it seems wrong - a Mother who witholds a child and makes false allegations should be seen as a bad Mother. But they are probably ok looking after the kids and they see it as an issue between parents.

So what can happen at final hearing? Well that depends how you do it. If you're acting for yourself, you present yourself as a calm, respectful, child focused Dad and argue in your statement as to why it's the child's best interests to have the order you are asking for. Your ex's statement may well be full of more nasty allegations but it will just be seen as mud slinging as by then it's established there are no welfare issues and her stuff will be ignored.

If you use a barrister, the barrister could basically rip her to shreds over things to the point she never wants to go to court again. Barristers can do that - a parent can't or they're seen as attacking the Mother. A barrister will trip her up, expose all her lies, may be quite ruthless and leave her a gibbering wreck. It can be brutal. Or they may be more subtle. And they will usually get you the order you want by being a good advocate and using caselaw.

So if you can afford it I would suggest using a direct access barrister for the final hearing. It may give you a sense of satisfaction that your ex has been hauled across the tiles and it should get you a good order.

But the court won't punish her as such.
 
I'm fed up really. As someone once said 'you can get justice in the afterlife, in this world you get the law...'
This is ridiculous, in many countries if one party is found to have made false and vexatious allegations in a civil court they are required to pay the defendant's legal fees... if you wish to make allegations of emotional or psychological abuse, then you need to present an assessment from a psychiatrist....

So after the hell this vicious liar put myself and the kids through all she is going to get back is a slap in the wrist? Really? The very minimum the court could do is make findings against the mother as the perpetrator of domestic and child abuse...

How about a barring order?

This is state sponsored terrrorism imho. It is not the lies that bother me, it is the fact that the state is sponsoring and encouraging mothers to behave in this depraved manner so they can get legal aid and full custody of the children. They have no incentives, or suffer any penalties whatsoever for lying... quite on the contrary. The more they lie, the longer it takes for matters to be resolved and the more the court will not want to upset the apple cart and ensure both parties are able to shared care of the children.

And as the lying mothers learn the court has not teeth, they'll break the court orders as soon as they walk outside court....

How do we fight back?
 
I hear you. Most of the population has no idea what goes on because it's all in secret. The system does need a huge shake up. The reasons (excuses?) for some of it?

1) The Family court has a duty to child safety so has to check out any allegations made because every year some children are killed by a parent - they are wary of making a mistake
2) They think that punishing the Mother financially or by sending them to prison, harms the children - who need stability and a home with the Mother (and with both parents).

Aside from that - IMO Cafcass are hugely biased towards Mothers - it's the way they trained - and see many allegations as the Mother's "anxiety". ie make excuses for her. Judges are generally more pro equality and not biased. These are the people you want to persuade and have onside at a final hearing.

There are (rare) cases where a Mother was referred for a criminal prosecution for perjury. In the one instance I can think of it was probably because the allegations were so horrific (child sex abuse) and found to be untrue.

The difficulty with allegations is - if they can't be proven or unproven. The courts don't know who is telling the truth. Sometimes it is more than a slap on the wrist - it is a big telling off or a warning. Sometimes costs are ordered if the behaviour has been outrageous (note - behaviour rather than words).

The court process for Dads is about jumping through hoops until you get an order and get the best order possible in case you end up having to go back to court in the future as it stands you in good stead for a better outcome next time around. What they hope is that by the time it's all over the Mother will follow the order rather than go through all that again.

At the back of all this society seems to think that children belong with single Mums as well. And they don't know the half of the family court process.

Things have actually improved (I know!) but certain factions are trying to undermine the improvements.

Before 2012, Mothers automatically had sole residency, automatically got legal aid regardless if it went to court, and Fathers had to prove themselves "fit" before they could even get an order for "access" or "contact" (both inhuman terms). And Mums "stopped contact" at the drop of a hat.

After 2012-14 the family justice review result was that the Childrens Act was amended so both parents automatically have equal parental responsibility (neither has automatic sole residence), there is a presumption that children will spend regular and significant time with both parents - unless there are welfare issues.

This basically took power away from Mothers and there seem to be some factions now trying to get that power back again. By publicly undermining the notion of "parental alienation" (usually something done by Mothers but can be either sex so there's an irony there) and by churning out a load of stuff about men being abusers. The "Me Too" high profile stuff helps fuel this argument.

To be fair Cafcass are often very reasonable with Dads and recommend reasonable time. Unless the Mother makes a load of really bad allegations, then you become guilty until proved innocent, as you have found. It's a game. They make allegations, because it's the only way to get legal aid now.

After 2012-14 legal aid for all family cases was abolished - except in cases of domestic violence. So Mothers not only lost sole residency automatically but also the free ticket to court. I can't remember the statistics but I believe the claims of DV went up 300% or so once legal aid was abolished! As a way of getting legal aid.

A lot of this is political and politicans aren't interested it seems. They get voters points for supporting worthy causes like the rights of women and funding anti domestic violence charities.

There is a petition on here to try to get automatic 50/50 shared care legally at the time of separation (doesn't have to be 50/50 if both parents want it to be less). So it's debated in parliament. It runs till June but doesn't have enough signatures. It's not our petition - it;s just one that someone else started and I linked it on here. I think part of the problem was there was another similar petition not long before that did get enough signatures and didn't manage to change anything.

I think all we can do is keep highlighting the situation. People do it on Twitter and social media. Unfortunately at the moment there is a radical feminist lawyer who gets a lot of media air time and in newspapers, who is anti parental alienation and anti men. She's an idiot but it's damaging because she gets a lot of publicity.

There are three of four of them, all quite high profile. One of them actually advises the Government on these matters. And is paid for it!

It's a real push back to try and get Mothers rights back as they were before IMO and it's creating a gender war.

The difficulty is they don't know which are real situations of abuse and which are false. Because there are some real situations.

But it is still horrific that a Dad is treated like a criminal.

I hear your anger but the only suggestion I can make is to channel that into getting the best order you can and being the best Dad to your kids when you get that order. And your kids will work out what's what as they grow up.

It's a constant battle that is designed to make a Dad give up and go away. So a Mum can start a new life with a new man and have a "normal" family life. Sometimes it's just hatred and revenge.

I don't know what the answer is right now. There are some criminal prosecutions that can be pursued - I looked into it - but it's incredibly hard. The only real thing possible is harrassment. An ex can actually be prosecuted for harrassment after a formal warning and that is nothing to do with family courts, it's a police matter. They are usually too clever for that and just rely on false allegations. If you can prove to the police that these allegations are false (difficult - he said she said) then there is a route to "perverting the course of justice" - ie wasting police time. This seems to be lengthy and rarely taken up - presumably because the Police are overloaded and underfunded.

The other thing is - if you get the Mother prosecuted, say for harrassment, then when it comes to family court you're seen as not co parenting but attacking the Mother! You can't win as a Dad in these situations.

At the moment the only thing to do is jump through the hoops, play the game, go through the system, get your allegations dismissed and get your court order and make sure the wording is very very good with no loopholes. And if she does keep breaching, go back to court for transfer of residency.

Some people get there in the end. A lot of Mums actually do follow orders after they've had a roasting at a final hearing and realised everything failed and they didn't get anywhere.

To me the solution is to prevent this abuse of power in the first place by Mothers who make false allegations. By a change in view that they are the "main" parent and should be believed.

The high profile media lawyer I mentioned has a catchphrase "Believe all women". Which of course is ridiculed but she gets a lot of publicity.

I think the only way to change things and society's view is legislation that states children live with both parents equally at the time of separation and it's a criminal offence to prevent them seeing the other parent. The argument against that every time is - but what about domestic violence. I think the number of cases of dv are small compared to the number of parents separating and trying to get Child Arrangements in place.

But the system is not protecting children - it is protecting Mothers.
 
So what can we do? Tell everyone. Promote the situation. Write to your MP. Become a public speaker and get media interviews. We can only try.
 
I hear you. Most of the population has no idea what goes on because it's all in secret. The system does need a huge shake up. The reasons (excuses?) for some of it?

I'm angry with the system rather than the lying mother... that's the difficulty for me.... It is a no brainer for them... In criminology, there is a classic theory called Rational Choice. It goes like this, crime is committed by individuals who make a rational calculation between risk, reward and opportunity. In order to reduce crime, policy makers have to increase the risk and reduce the opportunities....

Mothers, and solicitors, know that they can lie through their teeth in the family court and there are no (serious) consequences, that is zero risk (saved of course for some very few extreme cases as you mentioned), the rewards are huge (i.e. sole custody of the children and a fat child maintenance allowance) and the opportunities to lie are plentiful because there is absolutely no scrutiny over allegations until they reach a judge. In my case, the judge ordered the LA social worker out of the case because in his words this SW aligned herself with the mother and treated her allegations as facts. At every hearing my ex came up with new lies....

Now to me there are a number of measures the courts could put in place to stop this non-sense. Mothers that make false allegations must be found to have committed emotional, psychological and financial abuse against the father period. They must be ordered to attend a domestic abuse perpetrator's programme. The courts should have powers to order mothers to go on a community payback programme in their local community such as sweeping the streets, etc. The courts should have powers to order mothers to repay the other party legal costs straight from their paycheques.

Procedure wise the courts must absolutely ban statements of hate. There must be a special process for parties where there are no significant criminal past behaviour. For every allegation made the applicant should have to tick a box stating whether any evidence exists, what that evidence is or if it is just their word against the other parent. Initial statements should be limited to five pages and the very first hearing the judge should interrogate both parties to understand what the real issues are. The same for Cafcass, no more of this bullshit safeguarding letter. Cafcass must immediately see the children and the parents. Both parties must qualify for legal aid when domestic abuse is alleged and if a fact finding hearing is not ordered, the party making the allegations should lose access to legal aid.

I'm fed up really....
 
I agree. I would send all that to your MP. You can but try. The system is shocking and lazy.

The current excuses are - there is not enough budget. Why? And that it's a political issue. But the politicans need a huge push. It concerns me about government advisers on these issues. Who designed the online C100 form? It's biased from the outset and assumes the child only lives with one parent.
 
Back
Top