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Final Hearing and What to Ask for

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Hackedoff_dad

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Just thought I would reach out for help here, if anyone has any good ideas as to what to ask for in the Final hearing? no doubt a day of negotiations I am told, any one have any input as to what to go for, looks like Cafcass have fitted me up like a kipper and are heavily biased towards me being a weekend dad, I am guessing as the ex does not work and I do this is seen as a handicap to me and of course she gets the money for sitting there doing sweet FA,

Anyone have any recommendations as to important things to ask for or consider, or maybe anything you wish you had done at the final hearing in hindsight.....
 
Much of this is specific to the case.

Are you going to be represented?

Will your ex be represented?

Are there allegations?

How long is the hearing?

Will CAFCASS be there for cross-examination?

Has there been a fact finding or other interim hearings?

Have you been seeing the kid(s) in the interim?

Were you an involved parent prior to proceedings?

How long until the hearing?

(Sorry if answers are in other threads I haven't read 🫢)

Without detail, the one thing I would recommend is that you do not assume anything is self-evident. If there are factors in your favour, or against your ex, make sure they are clearly stated. This is an adversarial process. It is not safe to imagine a court will see the obvious. It is better to imagine the court is totally ignorant and incapable of inquisition.

With the above in mind.

Prepare your cross-examination questions carefully.

Be prepared for late submissions from your ex and do all you can to protect against diversions.

Train yourself to give short answers when you are cross-examined. If they can drag that out on irrelevant complications you lose time to focus on what is important.

Their aim may well be to avoid getting to the point where negotiations are possible. If time can be eaten up, likely outcome will be default to mum's preferences or CAFCASS recommendations.

Broadly, it is a good idea to ask for more that you want. Going in asking for what is fair often results in getting less.
 
I will be represented, I am guessing she will be with her legal aid part, the S7 report is heavily biased towards her and her wishes, suggestively saying in parts she recommends me being a weekend dad, the final hearing I have no clue to what’s involved, and there will not be much time to prepare on the day, I am now aware them trying to run down the clock, you make some very valid points, just trying to minimise the blast radius..
 
Here is a thread on final hearing, might be a useful read:

Thread 'Child arrangement order final hearing coming.. Need some advise' https://dadswithkids.co.uk/threads/...er-final-hearing-coming-need-some-advise.801/

If your barrister is instructed by the solicitor, they should have a game plan clear before the day. If it is direct access, you should share documents before the hearing. Cases I've heard about had a meeting in advance of the hearing and met an hour before the hearing started. Prep should not all be left down to the day.

I have always been in person, so see what others say about their experiences of doing this represented.
 
Not sure who you'll be represented by, but I would suggest you have direct access barrister and have the Cafcass officer who wrote the S7 at the hearing for cross examination, so your barrister can undermine the S7 as flawed (they usually are). Otherwise you're likely to only get what the S7 recommends. What did you apply for in the first place? Because that will still be what you're asking for at final hearing - whatever you put in your initial application.

You'll also need a good "witness" statement (ie final statement) with evidence supporting your case and any evidence that shows the ex up. You'll both be cross examined on your final statements, by the lawyer for the other side, and the purpose of this is to try and prove you're lying (so your statement needs to be 100% accurate) or to make you lose your cool. Do not lose your cool - if the barrister is in your face and badgering you, take a breath and pause before replying and you can always buy more time by saying something like "Could you repeat that please" or "Why are you asking me that, you've seen my statement".

Likewise your barrister's job is to prove your ex is lying by finding inconsistencies in her final statement, or using a piece of evidence you have submitted to undermine something she has said in her statement. This is why it's crucial that statements are exchanged at the exact same time and they don't get sight of yours first - or they could alter theirs when they see your evidence and that could undermine your case.

A good Barrister should be able to get you more than every other week-end. If the Barrister can prove she has lied about a particular thing, then her whole statement is undermined and you have a good chance of winning the case - providing the Cafcass S7 is also undermined. Did Cafcass see the children with you or not? As part of the S7.

I'm hearing this a lot these days - S7's vastly weighted towards an ex and sometimes very unreasonably - eg because she has them with her all the time, they recommend that continues! Honestly Cafcass should be scrapped.

Is there some driving distance between you and the ex? Just wondering why they said every other week-end and not EOW plus a midweek night.
 
I am just a bit resigned to it all now, the barrister says the s7 will stand with the judge almost and that's about my lot, strange to think that after all the money I have paid out everyone just wants easy money easy options and an easy outcome, I feel like the last two years has been a complete waste of emotional energy, I have also been told that the family courts do not do common sense.

even after 2 years, still banging the DA/DV drum, even though the Judge has dismissed all of it, Cafcass were not interested in mental health, not interested in anything other than setting up the mother tucked up with £800 a month that I have to pay (almost by working you are seen as can't parent effectively) I still have to have a plethora of counselling to hopefully get me through the next year with all this, I am just so disappointed with the entire thing.

Never visited my home, only 2 calls from Cafcass for less than 40 mins each, and your future with your child is determined "tick a box" "Standard approach" "standard package" meanwhile the children suffer. Utter rubbish!
 
Hackedoff_dad said:
I am just a bit resigned to it all now, the barrister says the s7 will stand with the judge almost and that's about my lot, strange to think that after all the money I have paid out everyone just wants easy money easy options and an easy outcome, I feel like the last two years has been a complete waste of emotional energy, I have also been told that the family courts do not do common sense.

even after 2 years, still banging the DA/DV drum, even though the Judge has dismissed all of it, Cafcass were not interested in mental health, not interested in anything other than setting up the mother tucked up with £800 a month that I have to pay (almost by working you are seen as can't parent effectively) I still have to have a plethora of counselling to hopefully get me through the next year with all this, I am just so disappointed with the entire thing.

Never visited my home, only 2 calls from Cafcass for less than 40 mins each, and your future with your child is determined "tick a box" "Standard approach" "standard package" meanwhile the children suffer. Utter rubbish!
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It is a disgrace, literally makes me sick in the stomach. But, staying in the picture is a victory. Give yourself some credit for getting the nonsense dismissed and getting through the last two years. Plenty would have fallen by the wayside long ago. 👏👏👏
 
Not impressed with your barrister saying that, but maybe he/she is covering themselves. It should be fairly easy to get the report undermined as flawed simply by the fact that Cafcass didn't even view the children with you or visit you at your home. I'd have thought the Barrister could at least try for a midweek night each week as well. Or is distance an issue?
 
Hackedoff_dad said:
I am just a bit resigned to it all now, the barrister says the s7 will stand with the judge almost and that's about my lot, strange to think that after all the money I have paid out everyone just wants easy money easy options and an easy outcome, I feel like the last two years has been a complete waste of emotional energy, I have also been told that the family courts do not do common sense.

even after 2 years, still banging the DA/DV drum, even though the Judge has dismissed all of it, Cafcass were not interested in mental health, not interested in anything other than setting up the mother tucked up with £800 a month that I have to pay (almost by working you are seen as can't parent effectively) I still have to have a plethora of counselling to hopefully get me through the next year with all this, I am just so disappointed with the entire thing.

Never visited my home, only 2 calls from Cafcass for less than 40 mins each, and your future with your child is determined "tick a box" "Standard approach" "standard package" meanwhile the children suffer. Utter rubbish!
Click to expand...
I hear you.
I think the courts are worse now than during height of covid in terms if rushing things through on the day of the hearing (although severe delays between).
You're right about box ticking.
My partner in your boat so you have our full sympathy.
 
big part of it the Ex has asked for Sole Custody "residency" almost (I know we hate that word) but this was important I thought, even though Cafcass has recommended that my child lives with the mother, the ex has interpreted this as a given for her, in a c100 case like this Judges don't like doing this, they give strong focus for 50/50 residency I am told, the point here is say in a few years billybob wants to spend more time with his dad this can be increased and the order can be amended, usually though when the child is old enough to make that choice, its important is that. "Never give that up" its almost like the power is gone, even though by law each parent has a right to the weekend with the child this is why is every other weekend for me I am afraid I don't live far from my kids it just been relentless after two years or this, she is still banging the drum for DA and DV even though there is no point now, they have interviewed the kids and they do want to see me, remember me and are dying to see me, so for all you dads out there, don't give up, because life changes over time for us all, what might be hell now, later might be wonderful for you and your kids, the money I don't care about really, I can always earn more if I need to, keep your eyes on the prize, don't give in, don't give up, they are just awaiting for daddy to rescue them and if you keep at it you will save the day, keep low, and move fast as they say.
 
@Hackedoff_dad you've had a long road to get to this point, clearly your kids development and growth is the most important aspect of your life like every dad on the forum.

Thanks for sharing and I admire your perseverance through it all - your kids will know you love them and gave it all for them, no matter what anybody else says.

Keep at it.
 
Hackedoff_dad said:
big part of it the Ex has asked for Sole Custody "residency" almost (I know we hate that word) but this was important I thought, even though Cafcass has recommended that my child lives with the mother, the ex has interpreted this as a given for her, in a c100 case like this Judges don't like doing this, they give strong focus for 50/50 residency I am told, the point here is say in a few years billybob wants to spend more time with his dad this can be increased and the order can be amended, usually though when the child is old enough to make that choice, its important is that. "Never give that up" its almost like the power is gone, even though by law each parent has a right to the weekend with the child this is why is every other weekend for me I am afraid I don't live far from my kids it just been relentless after two years or this, she is still banging the drum for DA and DV even though there is no point now, they have interviewed the kids and they do want to see me, remember me and are dying to see me, so for all you dads out there, don't give up, because life changes over time for us all, what might be hell now, later might be wonderful for you and your kids, the money I don't care about really, I can always earn more if I need to, keep your eyes on the prize, don't give in, don't give up, they are just awaiting for daddy to rescue them and if you keep at it you will save the day, keep low, and move fast as they say.
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I think a Barrister should be able to argue for more than every other week-end if the distance isn't an issue. The standard is usually every other week-end and one midweek night. Did the S7 give any reasons as to why there shouldn't be any midweek nights? Or was it the old chestnut "the children are happy and settled with their Mother" - which really gets to me! Of course they are - they had no other option.
 
Hackedoff_dad said:
Just thought I would reach out for help here, if anyone has any good ideas as to what to ask for in the Final hearing? no doubt a day of negotiations I am told, any one have any input as to what to go for, looks like Cafcass have fitted me up like a kipper and are heavily biased towards me being a weekend dad, I am guessing as the ex does not work and I do this is seen as a handicap to me and of course she gets the money for sitting there doing sweet FA,

Anyone have any recommendations as to important things to ask for or consider, or maybe anything you wish you had done at the final hearing in hindsight.....
Click to expand...
Don’t leave without first being cited on the draft order. If you’re self representing, it’ll be drafted by mother’s counsel/ solicitor and will be deliberately inaccurate and likely very weighted. Take a day to digest it if you can and don’t be pressured by the barrister. If I’m doubt let the judge decide.
 
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