Feeling stressed.... Need advice

[andycol]

Hi everyone,

I’m in a difficult situation and could really use some advice.

My spouse and I have decided to get a divorce, but we’re still living together with our 8-year-old child. The situation is complicated: I work full-time and earn a decent income, but she doesn’t work at all. About three years ago, we decided to home-school our child because she was struggling with anxiety and school wasn’t working out for her at the time.

The problem is, I feel my child hasn’t been getting the education she needs. I didn’t monitor it closely enough because I was focused on working and supporting the family. Now, my child is behind in basic skills like reading and writing.

On top of this, my soon-to-be ex is expecting me to give her 60% of my monthly income after the divorce. She also plans to work on weekends—the days I’d spend with my child. I don’t think this is fair. I’m happy to cover whatever my child needs, but I don’t think I should have to support my ex to the point where I can’t live comfortably.

I also believe my child needs to return to school, possibly a special program, to help her catch up.

At home, things are awful. My ex treats me terribly, and my child is starting to pick up on it, thinking it’s okay to treat me the same way. I feel completely stuck and don’t know what to do.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

[bujanin]

Hey All,

My situation is a bit of a complex one and I'd love some advice

Myself and my soon to be ex spouse have decided on a divorce, we still live together with our 8 year old child.
Our situation is tricky, I work full time earning a decent income and she does not work at all, about 3 years ago we decided it would be best to home educate our child as she was struggling with anxiety etc at school and we felt it would be the best decision at the time
Now my problem is that I feel she has not been educating my child sufficiently, and my mistake was not keeping an eye on it, as I was working hard to support them all.
Now she is expecting me to give 60% of my monthly salary to her when we get divorced, and then she works on weekends, the days I'll see my kids
I need help as I don't feel this is fair and I will gladly buy my child whatever they need but why should I suffer so the ex can live well.
I feel my child needs to go back to school, but perhaps a special school as she is way behind the rest of her age group in reading/writing etc
What do I do? I feel stuck and just don't know what to do
My home life is terrible as she treats me like garbage and it has started rubbing off on our child as they see mommy doing this to me and think it's ok
Please help guys

Hello Andy

Being away from school doesn't seem to have been positive in any way. There'll surely be anxiety in witnessing the aggro between you and the mother so what was achieved by taking her from school..

Is it too simplistic to say that the child returns to school getting support for their anxiety, gets an education and your wife can get to work and not sponge off you?

Meanwhile begin to cover your back, decide what you want from a child arrangements order to ensure that your child stays in your life. It'll require some delicacy though to prevent the mother turning and using the child as the weapon.

 

[Peanut 21]

Firstly, it's always advised, DO NOT move out until you have a child arrangements order in place.
This is where they can stop you seeing your child and/or using them as a negotiation tool.

Secondly, have you had any legal advice on financials such as spousal support?
You should be able to get a free half hour with a solicitor. Or worst case scenario pay a one off fee to get the basic advice on the best way to move forward.

You don't need a solicitor throughout all of this as they will fleece you out of thousands.

Thirdly, rise above everything she throws at you. It'll be hard work but never bite when she antagonises, walk away.
In any texts or emails reply like you would in a professional email.
Give away no information or any plans you have.

 

[andycol]

Hello Andy

Being away from school doesn't seem to have been positive in any way. There'll surely be anxiety in witnessing the aggro between you and the mother so what was achieved by taking her from school..

Is it too simplistic to say that the child returns to school getting support for their anxiety, gets an education and your wife can get to work and not sponge off you?

Meanwhile begin to cover your back, decide what you want from a child arrangements order to ensure that your child stays in your life. It'll require some delicacy though to prevent the mother turning and using the child as the weapon.

Firstly, it's always advised, DO NOT move out until you have a child arrangements order in place.
This is where they can stop you seeing your child and/or using them as a negotiation tool.

Secondly, have you had any legal advice on financials such as spousal support?
You should be able to get a free half hour with a solicitor. Or worst case scenario pay a one off fee to get the basic advice on the best way to move forward.

You don't need a solicitor throughout all of this as they will fleece you out of thousands.

Thirdly, rise above everything she throws at you. It'll be hard work but never bite when she antagonises, walk away.
In any texts or emails reply like you would in a professional email.
Give away no information or any plans you have.

Do you have a solicitor to recommend

 

[Ash]

Hi everyone,

I’m in a difficult situation and could really use some advice.

My spouse and I have decided to get a divorce, but we’re still living together with our 8-year-old child. The situation is complicated: I work full-time and earn a decent income, but she doesn’t work at all. About three years ago, we decided to home-school our child because she was struggling with anxiety and school wasn’t working out for her at the time.

The problem is, I feel my child hasn’t been getting the education she needs. I didn’t monitor it closely enough because I was focused on working and supporting the family. Now, my child is behind in basic skills like reading and writing.

On top of this, my soon-to-be ex is expecting me to give her 60% of my monthly income after the divorce. She also plans to work on weekends—the days I’d spend with my child. I don’t think this is fair. I’m happy to cover whatever my child needs, but I don’t think I should have to support my ex to the point where I can’t live comfortably.

I also believe my child needs to return to school, possibly a special program, to help her catch up.

At home, things are awful. My ex treats me terribly, and my child is starting to pick up on it, thinking it’s okay to treat me the same way. I feel completely stuck and don’t know what to do.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Hi. So are you sure you want to divorce? Have you tried couples counselling? If divorce is definitely on the cards then it gets more complex than a percentage of income - there are divorce financials as one aspect - income is one thing, capital and assets are another - and there is Child Maintenance financials as a separate aspect.

Also divorce financials and legalised Child arrangements are two separate things - but they are also tied.

It does sound tough at the moment living in the same house - can you manage to do it so you live in separate areas of the house for a while? Because our usual advice is - do not move out without a Child Arrangements order in place. If you do, your ex will have all the control as to when you can see your child - and it's common that an ex will use the child as hostage or leverage, for a better financial deal for the divorce. And then you can't get to see the child unless you have a court order. It can take a long time to get a court order and not an easy time if you can't see your child at all.

Whereas if you have child arrangements formalised FIRST, and it's a 50/50 arrangement then there is no Child Maintenance to pay and any finances are purely divorce related. That's if you want 50/50 care. So you need to think about what schedules would work for you if and when you live separately.

For example a 50/50 schedule would usually be 2-2-5-5 - unless the child is over 7 then it might be 1 week on 1 week off.

2-2-5-5 is more common. What that would be is - every other week-end with each parent and two midweek overnights with each parent during term-time and half the school holidays with each parent.

So for example, one week the child would be with you Monday and Tuesday nights from school until Wednesday morning, Wednesday and Thursday nights with ex.
Then it would be from Friday through to Wednesday with you and Wednesday through to Monday with ex

Repeated fortnightly during school term times. So one week it's 2 nights each, the next week it's 5 nights each (the 2 nights plus the week-end).

Now if your child is home schooled, this gets more complicated - because you presumably wouldn't be able to have two days a week off work to do home schooling. And you would prefer the child to be schooled anyway.

But one thing at a time. To have child arrangements legalised before you separate, they need to be in a court order - a Child Arrangements Order. This doesn't necessarily mean you have to apply to court for it. It can be a consent Child Arrangements order - ie if you can agree child arrangements between you, then you both just need a solicitor for a one off job - yours to write up the order, hers to approve the order wording, and then it's just sent to court for sealing. You can ask for it to commence from the time of separation and say you intend to separate as soon as Child arrangements are sorted (the hows and whens of that, the court doesn't need to know so you can work that out as you go along!).

There are also different "types" of Child Arrangements order.

It can either be "lives with" Mother and "spends time with" Father (what used to be residency and contact). Or it can be "lives with both parents" (what used to be "Joint residence" or "Shared Residence". Also known as "shared care".

It usually needs to be at least 5 nights a fortnight with you, for it to be "lives with both parents". The only technical difference between lives with and spends time with, is the parent with the lives with order (the Mother) can go abroad for holidays without needing your consent, whereas you would need her consent - and if she wouldn't give it, it needs a court application for a holiday.

If it's "lives with both parents" then either of you can have overseas holidays (at agreed times/dates or your time from the court order) without needing consent from each other. So that is one advantage to "lives with both parents". The other advantage is mainly psychological and partly practical.

The parent with the "lives with" element of the order is also classed as "the parent with care". Some Mothers can abuse this "parent with care" card and dictate things to schools and other authorities - such as not allowing you to be involved with certain things. In other words some parents with care with a sole lives with order, can start pulling rank and dictating things and ignoring your parental responsibility - and get away with it.

So personally I think it's always best to try and get a "lives with both parents" order. This makes no difference to child maintenance - child maintenance goes on the split of time, not whether it's lives with or spends time with.

For example I had a lives with both parents order even though my son only spent 4 nights a fortnight with me - so I still had to pay child maintenance due to the unequal split of time. Most Dads do have to pay some child maintenance. Because not everyone can manage a 50/50 order.

However, if you want to share the care of your child 50/50 after separation, there are ways to achieve this - IF the child goes to school. Because you only have two midweek nights and mornings to organise and can use breakfast clubs, after school clubs or delegate grandparents or a trusted relative to do your school collections and drop offs. And the rest of the time is at week-ends and holidays. Likewise you don't have to be off work during one of your school holiday weeks your child is living with you - you can use child minders, relatives etc and spend time with the child at evenings and week-ends.

So have a think about whether you want to share the care 50/50 or whether you would prefer a "standard" order which is usually every other week-end and one midweek overnight. The week-end can either be until 6pm Sunday or until Monday morning. If it's until Monday morning, that is 5 nights a fortnight so you could still have "lives with both parents".

Hope that isn't too confusing!

Child maintenance is about 15% of your GROSS income and doesn't allow for any of your outgoings, and this can be a financial strain for a lot of Dads, if they end up having to continue paying a mortgage for a former family home, and pay child maintenance and rent as well.

So that's where the divorce finances come in. The starting point is usually 50/50 in terms of assets (eg house equity). But it can often end up being 70/30 in favour of the ex. If your ex is asking for 60/40 (equity) that is something to consider - if she is prepared for the house to be sold. Or prepared to buy you out of your share of the house or let you buy her out and stay in the house (if you can afford to).

What a lot of ex's want is - EVERYTHING but you not there any more. In other words, they want to keep the house, have you pay the mortgage and have a sole "lives with" order and you have minimal (or no) time with the child. They are not interested in being fair once it comes to divorce - they want everything they can get and sole control of the child.

So to narrow it down - you want to aim for a reasonable agreement over Child Arrangements, to go in a consent order, before you separate. If at all possible. And try using mediation to achieve the divorce finances (it works out cheaper than having to go to court). You can also get a consent order for divorce finances but it's not the same as a consent order for Child Arrangements! It's a separate thing.

So most ex's want finances sorting first, not child arrangements - because they want to keep control. And this is the issue. As a Dad you want Child Arrangements determining BEFORE divorce finances. An ex wants the opposite usually.

Any agreement for Child Arrangements as part of the divorce proceedings is NOT legally binding - and can be (and often is) ignored by the ex entirely. The only legally binding Child Arrangements are in a Child Arrangements order.

Ex's commonly want you to have as little time as possible, because the less nights you have, the more Child Maintenance they get.

 

[Ash]

Continued (see rest of message above)

So I think you need to do a few things at the moment.
1) Keep your cards close to your chest - don't be too open and honest about what you want. Be careful. You're in a situation that now takes strategy and discretion. But you also need to keep things as amicable as you can (even if it means just switching off or avoiding her sometimes).

2) Change ALL your passwords - especially email and your phone passcode. But don't tell her you have.

3) Keep diary notes - so you have a record of everything discussed or anything that happens. One way is to email yourself and file the email in a folder so they're all together. Another reason to make sure she can't access your email - maybe set up a new, separate email address just for this.

4) Keep your phone on you at all times - sometimes if your phone is unlocked someone can just read your emails via the phone app without needing to sign in. You could just not use a phone app for email and log in manually on the internet each time.

5) Anything you say can be used against you! She might even surreptitiously record you on her phone. Be careful what you say.

6) Start mediation. Again there are two types of mediation - one for Child Arrangements, one for Divorce. I think the two can be done together but you don't really want to be mediating about divorce finances until you have child Arrangements formalised.


So if she won't agree to anything reasonable for child arrangements then you go and have a MIAM. This is the first mediation appointment you go to on your own and it's a legal requirement to have had one if you need to go to court to get a Child Arrangements order. At this appointment, they explain mediation, check to see if you're entitled to legal aid for mediation (if either of you meet the threshold then you both get legal aid) and then ask if you want your ex invited to the next session.

I suggest not telling her you're having the MIAM. Some ex's have read up everything in advance (think Mumsnet) and they know that if you start mediation for Child Arrangements, you might be thinking about applying to court, so they can pre-empt that and do something unpleasant. (Stories of Dads being arrested on the driveway and not allowed back to the house).

So this is why you keep your cards close to your chest. It's hard, when you're used to being a couple and open but think of it more as business.

The mediator will then invite your ex (sorry I should say stbx - soon to be ex) to mediation and you both go to the next session. It's advisable to have a C100 court application filled out before your ex knows about the mediation. Because what commonly happens is they refuse to go to mediation - then put their own application in first and accuse you of abuse. ie try to disrupt any chance of a child arrangements order.

Or they keep cancelling/delaying the mediation. After your MIAM you could say to her you'd like to have mediation to agree child arrangements after separation and you're sure you can reach an amicable financial solution as well.

If you're lucky you might be able to agree child arrangements, with or without mediation - but it's not that common as she will want to pin you down on finances first. But you can try and say it's important your child has a smooth separation and knows when she sees both of you,

I suspect your ex will want your child to live with her and have minimal time with you - and will see herself as the main parent. They usually do - and especially if she is at home and doing the home schooling.

If she isn't prepared to do a consent order then you can't trust anything she says by way of agreement. So then you'd need to put your court application in for a Child Arrangements order - we can help with that if needed. It's not difficult but the wording is quite important to get off to good a start with Cafcass and to keep things smooth.

If you do need to put in the C100 for Child Arrangements, you can also, on the same form, ask for a specific issues order for schooling. Education is part of parental responsibility and the courts treat that seriously. So if you can't agree how your child is to be educated, the court will decide, after hearing/seeing both arguments. I think you'd have a strong argument for your child to attend school a) because of being behind and b) because you are separating and she will need a solid routine of parenting and schooling in two separate homes, and school will provide added stability for her and external support during the time of separation and divorce.

Meanwhile - don't move out.

I'm not that up on the divorce side of things, but you shouldn't have to pay spousal maintenance - so the only finances are: Split of house equity and assets, pension sharing and Child Maintenance. If you have a 50/50 Child Arrangements order then there is no Child Maintenance.

You don't need a solicitor just yet I think but you can always get a free half hour's legal advice. Solicitors run up huge bills. For Child Arrangements, it's better to do most yourself and use a direct access barrister for hearings (to get the best results and in the shortest time).

For Divorce it's better to try and get a consent order via mediation.

For Child Arrangements it's better to get a consent order if you can reach agreement - using a solicitor as a one off job for that alone.

 

[andycol]

Continued (see rest of message above)

So I think you need to do a few things at the moment.
1) Keep your cards close to your chest - don't be too open and honest about what you want. Be careful. You're in a situation that now takes strategy and discretion. But you also need to keep things as amicable as you can (even if it means just switching off or avoiding her sometimes).

2) Change ALL your passwords - especially email and your phone passcode. But don't tell her you have.

3) Keep diary notes - so you have a record of everything discussed or anything that happens. One way is to email yourself and file the email in a folder so they're all together. Another reason to make sure she can't access your email - maybe set up a new, separate email address just for this.

4) Keep your phone on you at all times - sometimes if your phone is unlocked someone can just read your emails via the phone app without needing to sign in. You could just not use a phone app for email and log in manually on the internet each time.

5) Anything you say can be used against you! She might even surreptitiously record you on her phone. Be careful what you say.

6) Start mediation. Again there are two types of mediation - one for Child Arrangements, one for Divorce. I think the two can be done together but you don't really want to be mediating about divorce finances until you have child Arrangements formalised.


So if she won't agree to anything reasonable for child arrangements then you go and have a MIAM. This is the first mediation appointment you go to on your own and it's a legal requirement to have had one if you need to go to court to get a Child Arrangements order. At this appointment, they explain mediation, check to see if you're entitled to legal aid for mediation (if either of you meet the threshold then you both get legal aid) and then ask if you want your ex invited to the next session.

I suggest not telling her you're having the MIAM. Some ex's have read up everything in advance (think Mumsnet) and they know that if you start mediation for Child Arrangements, you might be thinking about applying to court, so they can pre-empt that and do something unpleasant. (Stories of Dads being arrested on the driveway and not allowed back to the house).

So this is why you keep your cards close to your chest. It's hard, when you're used to being a couple and open but think of it more as business.

The mediator will then invite your ex (sorry I should say stbx - soon to be ex) to mediation and you both go to the next session. It's advisable to have a C100 court application filled out before your ex knows about the mediation. Because what commonly happens is they refuse to go to mediation - then put their own application in first and accuse you of abuse. ie try to disrupt any chance of a child arrangements order.

Or they keep cancelling/delaying the mediation. After your MIAM you could say to her you'd like to have mediation to agree child arrangements after separation and you're sure you can reach an amicable financial solution as well.

If you're lucky you might be able to agree child arrangements, with or without mediation - but it's not that common as she will want to pin you down on finances first. But you can try and say it's important your child has a smooth separation and knows when she sees both of you,

I suspect your ex will want your child to live with her and have minimal time with you - and will see herself as the main parent. They usually do - and especially if she is at home and doing the home schooling.

If she isn't prepared to do a consent order then you can't trust anything she says by way of agreement. So then you'd need to put your court application in for a Child Arrangements order - we can help with that if needed. It's not difficult but the wording is quite important to get off to good a start with Cafcass and to keep things smooth.

If you do need to put in the C100 for Child Arrangements, you can also, on the same form, ask for a specific issues order for schooling. Education is part of parental responsibility and the courts treat that seriously. So if you can't agree how your child is to be educated, the court will decide, after hearing/seeing both arguments. I think you'd have a strong argument for your child to attend school a) because of being behind and b) because you are separating and she will need a solid routine of parenting and schooling in two separate homes, and school will provide added stability for her and external support during the time of separation and divorce.

Meanwhile - don't move out.

I'm not that up on the divorce side of things, but you shouldn't have to pay spousal maintenance - so the only finances are: Split of house equity and assets, pension sharing and Child Maintenance. If you have a 50/50 Child Arrangements order then there is no Child Maintenance.

You don't need a solicitor just yet I think but you can always get a free half hour's legal advice. Solicitors run up huge bills. For Child Arrangements, it's better to do most yourself and use a direct access barrister for hearings (to get the best results and in the shortest time).

For Divorce it's better to try and get a consent order via mediation.

For Child Arrangements it's better to get a consent order if you can reach agreement - using a solicitor as a one off job for that alone.

Thanks for all this it's incredibly insightful

 

[Yeboah1]

Continued (see rest of message above)

So I think you need to do a few things at the moment.
1) Keep your cards close to your chest - don't be too open and honest about what you want. Be careful. You're in a situation that now takes strategy and discretion. But you also need to keep things as amicable as you can (even if it means just switching off or avoiding her sometimes).

2) Change ALL your passwords - especially email and your phone passcode. But don't tell her you have.

3) Keep diary notes - so you have a record of everything discussed or anything that happens. One way is to email yourself and file the email in a folder so they're all together. Another reason to make sure she can't access your email - maybe set up a new, separate email address just for this.

4) Keep your phone on you at all times - sometimes if your phone is unlocked someone can just read your emails via the phone app without needing to sign in. You could just not use a phone app for email and log in manually on the internet each time.

5) Anything you say can be used against you! She might even surreptitiously record you on her phone. Be careful what you say.

6) Start mediation. Again there are two types of mediation - one for Child Arrangements, one for Divorce. I think the two can be done together but you don't really want to be mediating about divorce finances until you have child Arrangements formalised.


So if she won't agree to anything reasonable for child arrangements then you go and have a MIAM. This is the first mediation appointment you go to on your own and it's a legal requirement to have had one if you need to go to court to get a Child Arrangements order. At this appointment, they explain mediation, check to see if you're entitled to legal aid for mediation (if either of you meet the threshold then you both get legal aid) and then ask if you want your ex invited to the next session.

I suggest not telling her you're having the MIAM. Some ex's have read up everything in advance (think Mumsnet) and they know that if you start mediation for Child Arrangements, you might be thinking about applying to court, so they can pre-empt that and do something unpleasant. (Stories of Dads being arrested on the driveway and not allowed back to the house).

So this is why you keep your cards close to your chest. It's hard, when you're used to being a couple and open but think of it more as business.

The mediator will then invite your ex (sorry I should say stbx - soon to be ex) to mediation and you both go to the next session. It's advisable to have a C100 court application filled out before your ex knows about the mediation. Because what commonly happens is they refuse to go to mediation - then put their own application in first and accuse you of abuse. ie try to disrupt any chance of a child arrangements order.

Or they keep cancelling/delaying the mediation. After your MIAM you could say to her you'd like to have mediation to agree child arrangements after separation and you're sure you can reach an amicable financial solution as well.

If you're lucky you might be able to agree child arrangements, with or without mediation - but it's not that common as she will want to pin you down on finances first. But you can try and say it's important your child has a smooth separation and knows when she sees both of you,

I suspect your ex will want your child to live with her and have minimal time with you - and will see herself as the main parent. They usually do - and especially if she is at home and doing the home schooling.

If she isn't prepared to do a consent order then you can't trust anything she says by way of agreement. So then you'd need to put your court application in for a Child Arrangements order - we can help with that if needed. It's not difficult but the wording is quite important to get off to good a start with Cafcass and to keep things smooth.

If you do need to put in the C100 for Child Arrangements, you can also, on the same form, ask for a specific issues order for schooling. Education is part of parental responsibility and the courts treat that seriously. So if you can't agree how your child is to be educated, the court will decide, after hearing/seeing both arguments. I think you'd have a strong argument for your child to attend school a) because of being behind and b) because you are separating and she will need a solid routine of parenting and schooling in two separate homes, and school will provide added stability for her and external support during the time of separation and divorce.

Meanwhile - don't move out.

I'm not that up on the divorce side of things, but you shouldn't have to pay spousal maintenance - so the only finances are: Split of house equity and assets, pension sharing and Child Maintenance. If you have a 50/50 Child Arrangements order then there is no Child Maintenance.

You don't need a solicitor just yet I think but you can always get a free half hour's legal advice. Solicitors run up huge bills. For Child Arrangements, it's better to do most yourself and use a direct access barrister for hearings (to get the best results and in the shortest time).

For Divorce it's better to try and get a consent order via mediation.

For Child Arrangements it's better to get a consent order if you can reach agreement - using a solicitor as a one off job for that alone.

All of this is hugely helpful for me too. What a wealth of knowledge; thankyou.