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Fact finding hearing and false allegations - urgent help needed!

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Got a fact finding hearing - would appreciate some tips/guidance


to give a bit of background:

Got married three years ago to my ex - she’s is foreign and so I had to apply for a marriage visa for her to come over here. It was an arranged marriage (big mistake I know) we didn’t know each other for long before we got married

Anyway in the summer of 2020, the visa got granted and she moved to the UK where we lived together until June 2021. (We broke up June 2021)

She got pregnant not long after. We argued loads but would make up. It was a difficult pregnancy and I thought it would be good to fly her mother in the uk for support because I was working nights a lot.

She had a great relationship with my family too and she lived with them for a week before her mum arrived.

I picked her mum up from the airport and when she arrived it became hell because she would get involved and would rile her up and we would argue more. I was really supportive to try earn more money for the arrival of our baby.

I told her by text message that I’m not happy with our relationship, we have to work on it and that the love was going from our relationship. The baby was due to be born in two weeks.

A couple of days after I sent that text we argued and I told her I wanted a divorce.

The next morning, I took her to the hospital for a pre-birth assessment and she basically lied to the midwife saying that I had been controlling what she ate for a long time, isolated her from family and friends and I had beat her. She said she was fraud to go back home because she was scared of me. They called the police and I got arrested later that day. I was so shocked because none of these things ever happened and it was so out the blue.

About half an hour before I got arrested, her brother and sister also arrived to our home in readiness for the birth. The only member of her family who was yet to arrive was her dad. I thought it was unusual that they came unannounced, as they would normally say they’re coming and I’d get them from the train station. I think my ex planned and timed the allegations carefully in advance - 1 week before my child was due to be born and after her family had arrived. I think she just wanted me out the house since I didn’t want to be with her anymore.

I was put on bail for 3 months with conditions I couldn’t go back my home or see my child, while her family all lived together in my house. It was traumatising. I missed the birth of my child. She chose not to support police action because she was trying to convince me that it wasn’t her that lied about me and she wanted to get back together. I wasn’t agreeable to getting back together because I couldn’t trust her anymore, as she also got me suspended from my job while the police investigated the allegations as I work with vulnerable people.

She reported to the police that apparently I smoke weed in my car on my way to work and work with vulnerable people while under the influence of drugs! This was completely untrue. In the end I refused to get back with her.

The police took NFA as I was able to provide photographic evidence she wasn’t isolated from her fam (I had a some pics of all us together)

I also had evidence that I didn’t control what she ate. She used to send me texts with her shopping lists so I had that as evidence along with the bank statements to show I went to the shop and bought the food.

They offered her to go to a refuge but she refused and returned back home (the same place she said she was too scared to return to) that same night.

I don’t get how she could even say that I isolated her from her family when I literally flew her mum over from the other side of the world, collected her from the airport, and brought her to live us. She was living in the next room!

She said that one day she tried to escape but I saw her running away and stopped her escaping. That is just false. At the time I was working full time and my work rota was agreed in advance. She knew when I would be at work. If she had any intention to ’escape’ she could’ve just left the house when I was at work?

She also said I had controlled what she ate for a long time to the cops and the midwife. Thankfully she used to text me her shopping list and I was able to show that to the police along with evidence of bank statements showing I bought the food that she chose. She was really trying to destroy me.

I looked at the police disclosure and even though she did t want to support the investigation at first, when they told her they were taking NFA, she exercised her victims right to review and she appealed the decision! The police still decided to take NFA. I got to meet my child after that about 5 times, but it was uncomfortable as because it was her house in front of her family.

To cut a long story short, I applied for a Prohibited Steps Order and child arrangement order because I was suspicious they were going to take my baby abroad. Because we broke up her marriage visa got cancelled. Her dad was also going to have to maintain her living in the UK which I knew they couldn’t afford.

In October 2021, the order got granted. It turned out she had already taken out a passport for him and bought plane tickets. She was angry that I stopped her from taking our child abroad and she stopped all contact. I haven’t seen him in person since.

In feb, At the FHDRA a fact finding hearing, cannabis drug test was ordered along with a psychological report because she said I had loads of mental health issue. cafcass said they couldn’t make a recommendation on contact until they find out the outcome of the fact finding hearing.

I did the cannabis hair strand drug test which of course came back negative of course as my ex lied about me using drugs.

I also got a psychological report from my psychiatrist which expressed no concerns about my health. She is now disputing that the report is genuine and instructed her solicitor to allege that he is a personal friend and to ask the court to order a new psychological report at the pre-trial review which will take place now in August!

I was surprised as I thought I would at least get supervised contact in a contact centre while the matter was being investigated by the family court, but it wasn’t because she wouldn’t agree to that and only agreed to indirect contact (a FaceTime call once a week) which is useless because he can’t speak and we can’t build an attachment over FaceTime.

A pre-trial review is due to take place in August and a 2 day fact finding hearing in September.

I’m really nervous about this and don’t know what to expect. I have instructed a barrister to represent me.

My ex has told loads of lies and so far everything has gone her way. I feel the system is so biased against me. I have no history of domestic abuse but do to false allegations from a bitter ex I have missed the first year of my child’s life.

I don’t know what to expect at the pre trial review or fact finding hearing but all I want is a relationship with my son. My ex is so extreme and controlling and im losing hope I’ll ever have a relationship with him due to her constant lies!

Any one got any tips/guidance on how I should deal with the situation? I feel like I’ve been getting battered pillar to post and everything is one sided in her favour. Everything has gone her way. It is 9 months since I applied for a child arrangement order and I haven’t met my son since. I miss him dearly.

Anyone been through any thing similar?

Really appreciate any support guys.
 
Never lose hope is tip number one. We are all nervous about the outcome of something that means so much to us in the face of so much cruelty and so many lies. To deny a child a parent is cynical on a level that is disturbing. But I think most of us have come full circle. We've had our hearts and minds kicked about and now we've dusted ourselves off and strapped ourselves in for the fight ahead.

Although it feel's like you're being battered from pillar to post, try to look at it as a process. A frustratingly long process with a lot of negativity much of the time. But don't give in. Don't let the negativity knock you off course from your objective which is a life with your child. Be like granite.

I'm surprised your ex was given a choice about contact centre time. My judge told mine, that is what is happening, along with FaceTime once a week prior to the FFH and if she tried to disrupt that it won't end well for her. But all cases are different.

What was your initial interaction with CAFCASS like? It seems like their safeguarding checks were a bit lacking if they had nothing of worth to present to the court at the FHDRA and need the extra time from a fact find. But look on the bright side. If they come back to court at the next FFH with no evidence to support your exes claims that's more allegations she won't be able to use again. So it's not really going all her way at all.

She's running out of ammo.

Hopefully your Barrister will kick some backside and the pendulum will start to swing in your favour.
 
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That sounds hellish. These accusations are not uncommon - it ensures the Mother gets legal aid for herself. I was also going to ask how your interactions with Cafcass went and what they wrote in their report/recommendations? I think you're doing the right thing getting a barrister for the fact find. Assume you didn't get interim time because your ex is still making allegations that you're dangerous - and the fact find is intended to clear that up. If they find for you, her allegations are dismissed and she can't make the same ones again. You need the barrister to make sure they don't find against you (and hopefully your barrister will be a lot better than her legal aid solicitor!).

Keep coming on here. It's stressful. I'm not quite sure what the pre trial review is - maybe a further FHDRA after the results of your tests?

Many Dads have been where you are and you just need to stay calm (not easy), jump through hoops and get to a final hearing when you'll get your order. The fact find is a big hurdle to get past to get to a final hearing. Sometimes a fact find can become a final hearing - so be prepared for what you want to ask for in terms of time with your child. The minimum for a child under two is a few hours a week. The sometimes won't order more than that unless the Mother agrees to more (they allow for breastfeeding up to age 2). But some Dads have argued that a) she isn't breastfeeding and b) she could express milk for an overnight with you.

Have to go now - I'll say more a bit later ...........

But don't give up. Take it one step at a time - try and detach in between to stay calm so it doesn't take over your whole life - I found going for long walks helped.
 
Never lose hope is tip number one. We are all nervous about the outcome of something that means so much to us in the face of so much cruelty and so many lies. To deny a child a parent is cynical on a level that is disturbing. But I think most of us have come full circle. We've had our hearts and minds kicked about and now we've dusted ourselves off and strapped ourselves in for the fight ahead.

Although it feel's like you're being battered from pillar to post, try to look at it as a process. A frustratingly long process with a lot of negativity much of the time. But don't give in. Don't let the negativity knock you off course from your objective which is a life with your child. Be like granite.

I'm surprised your ex was given a choice about contact centre time. My judge told mine, that is what is happening, along with FaceTime once a week prior to the FFH and if she tried to disrupt that it won't end well for her. But all cases are different.

What was your initial interaction with CAFCASS like? It seems like their safeguarding checks were a bit lacking if they had nothing of worth to present to the court at the FHDRA and need the extra time from a fact find. But look on the bright side. If they come back to court at the next FFH with no evidence to support your exes claims that's more allegations she won't be able to use again. So it's not really going all her way at all.

She's running out of ammo.

Hopefully your Barrister will kick some backside and the pendulum will start to swing in your favour.
Thanks for your words of encouragement!
I’m based in NE England so don’t know if the courts up here work differently maybe in terms of how they approach things?

My initial interaction with cafcass was fine. They literally said that it is vital that you build a bond with your son before he turns 1. They said it also seems unusual what your ex is saying about you especially with drug use because you’re a medic. They seemed skeptical of what my ex said. They seemed on my side

But when it came to writing the safeguarding letter they wrote tgis

Advice to Court
• The court should consider progressing an EX660 application to the Home Office to confirm (ex) immigration status before making any final order.
• There is a dispute about the events on **** and **** and ****. The court should consider Practice Direction 12J as any findings will have a bearing on ***** arrangements to spend time with his F. A full police disclosure may be beneficial to assist the Court in a finding of fact hearing
• A Section 7 report by Cafcass (after any Fact Find) will be needed to explore the concerns and assess risk. Consideration should be given to ******* suitability to attend a Domestic Abuse Perpetrators Programme if it is apparent during enquiries that this would be in ********** best interests.
• ******treating consultant psychiatrist should provide a short report providing an overview of F mental health, any diagnosis and treatment including prognosis, and any evidence of cannabis use. Drug testing may be considered to inform an assessment.

• I am unable to provide safe advice for any direct or indirect arrangements at this stage without an assessment of risk.
• Dispute resolution services are not appropriate given the concerns raised at this stage, although suitability of engaging in such services will be considered in the Section 7 report


One part of their report states

'Should fathers’s claim that Ms ******** is fabricating domestic abuse, there would be great concern for her ability to recognise ***** wider needs and promote a meaningful relationship with his father
and paternal family.

But that was it. This was back in feb and I haven’t seen him since.

At the FHDRA the judge said while I understand it will cause your son some emotional harm not meeting his dad, he would suffer more harm if the allegations turn out to be true which was devastating. They ordered 1 FaceTime a call week but to encourage 2 FaceTime calls. That was it.

My barrrister seeems really no nonsense so hopefully he will kick some sense into the proceedings!
 
That sounds hellish. These accusations are not uncommon - it ensures the Mother gets legal aid for herself. I was also going to ask how your interactions with Cafcass went and what they wrote in their report/recommendations? I think you're doing the right thing getting a barrister for the fact find. Assume you didn't get interim time because your ex is still making allegations that you're dangerous - and the fact find is intended to clear that up. If they find for you, her allegations are dismissed and she can't make the same ones again. You need the barrister to make sure they don't find against you (and hopefully your barrister will be a lot better than her legal aid solicitor!).

Keep coming on here. It's stressful. I'm not quite sure what the pre trial review is - maybe a further FHDRA after the results of your tests?

Many Dads have been where you are and you just need to stay calm (not easy), jump through hoops and get to a final hearing when you'll get your order. The fact find is a big hurdle to get past to get to a final hearing. Sometimes a fact find can become a final hearing - so be prepared for what you want to ask for in terms of time with your child. The minimum for a child under two is a few hours a week. The sometimes won't order more than that unless the Mother agrees to more (they allow for breastfeeding up to age 2). But some Dads have argued that a) she isn't breastfeeding and b) she could express milk for an overnight with you.

Have to go now - I'll say more a bit later ...........

But don't give up. Take it one step at a time - try and detach in between to stay calm so it doesn't take over your whole life - I found going for long walks helped.
Thanks for your feedback and words of encouragement.

He turned 1 last week too was gutted not to see him.

But like you said I have to keep fighting and keep myself sane in the process
 
At the FHDRA the judge said while I understand it will cause your son some emotional harm not meeting his dad, he would suffer more harm if the allegations turn out to be true...

...and that is absolutely right if you're putting yourself in the shoes of the judge. They are obviously risk averse and have to do everything they can to make sure their decisions are the right one and that a child is safe. They are responsible for that decision and given the many cases now where children have died at the hands of the people who are meant to provide care and safety because the local authorities failed they are even more risk averse. I wouldn't focus too much on the "emotional harm not meeting his dad" remark as if he is very young he will be oblivious to all this so don't let that comment play on your mind. It's us adults that feel the pain as we count every second of every day that we don't spend with our children because of this situation.

I know it hurts. I'm going through the same thing and I never got to see my boy on his birthday either. I have bought him presents and will make it up to him when I can. You just have to ride the process. The pending investigation into my exes claims that I beat my son won't find evidence to support an event that never happened and as soon as that allegation is put to bed that's another lifeline she has used in her attempt to stop my contact. It's exactly the same for you. They can't find evidence of things that never happened to support your exes justification to deny you contact. Eventually you'll get that final hearing and that order.

There may be some information about pre-trial reviews elsewhere online but fact finding is exactly what it says, looking for facts. If the allegations against you are not fact. Your ex is going to run out of road.
 
And yet if they determine the allegations are false - there is no punishment or recourse for the damage done by the ex. Although that last bit of the Cafcass report did say that if the allegations were untrue then they seemed to be considering whether the Mother was a suitable resident parent.

Did you actually have a psychiatrist before or did your ex just make that up?

Also - do the video calls - as many as you can get - you'd be surprised how much even babies and toddlers get. When my son was about this age and a bit older, I'd met my new partner and my ex refused to allow my partner contact. We went along with that for a while so when my son was with me we had to stay in different houses - and we'd have phone calls. My son picked something up from the tone of my voice I reckon and when the phone used to ring he'd pick it up and give it to me as if to say "I know you need this". He also kind of got to know my partner this way - because even though he couldn't hear her voice, he could hear my voice sounding different when talking to her. So when he did meet her he knew straight away this was the person that Dad talked to.

Another thing - my partner vaguely knew my son when he was a baby - met him the odd time - I was a single Dad. We started dating when he was about 9 months old. My son didn't see my partner for a year, having only met her a handful of times. But when he did meet her the first time there was an instant bond. As my solicitor said - he already knows her.

The first birthday is pretty boring frankly lol! They don't remember much about it - the second birthday is much more important. While they don't have memories for events at such a young age, they have a kind of muscle memory for people - feelings, smells, sensing things etc.

So if you can have video calls, it's a connection - he'll hear your voice. He'll remember that more than he'll remember seeing you on the video call probably. You can do fun things on the video calls - prepare for them. Have a particular toy with bells on or something. A good one is the fisher Price nursery rhyme book. It's a kind of electronic book that sings the nursery rhymes - you can show the pages. That kind of thing :)
 
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I'm a big advocate of introducing a deterrent punishment for false allegations proven to be malicious. In fact, I'm considering a petition.

"Should fathers’s claim that Ms ******** is fabricating domestic abuse, there would be great concern for her ability to recognise ***** wider needs and promote a meaningful relationship with his father and paternal family."

That is indeed a significant statement.
 
Good you have a Barrister for the Fact Find - it's really important you "win" that - so things can move on to a final hearing - and yet they still want to do a section 7 report. So you want to be asking for an interim order at the fact find hearing - so you get regular time between then and final hearing. Meaning - you need to win the fact find. So you need a good barrister on your side. Some ex's can act very well and sway a Judge.

You'll be sent a Scott schedule with all her allegations on before the hearing. You then respond to each one in writing, with any arguments and evidence (you can attach evidence). So start getting evidence together. For example if she claims that on x date you did xyz - and you have a receipt that shows you weren't even there on x date - that's evidence.

The decision is based on the balance of probabilities - ie how likely is it she is telling the truth - if there is no evidence to prove she's lying. If you can prove she's lying on a couple of allegations that puts the rest in doubt and undermines everything she says.

If you saw the Johnny Depp case, you'll get what I mean - they had to prove AH was lying - and did so on a couple of instances - which then undermined everything else she said. If she can lie about one thing she can lie about the whole lot.

Start getting evidence together. Think about what the allegations are so far, and how you can prove they're untrue. You've already had the cannabis test and psychologist report (they should really have order psychologists reports on both parents!).

If they're asking the court to consider finding out about immigration status - just wondering what that means? You've already got the prohibited steps order - well done on that by the way!

I'm also in the North East - going to PM you about a couple of things :)
 
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Thanks for all the tips guys! It has been really helpful. It feels like you’re the only person in this situation

Yes I definitely have evidence that she lied about having no control over what she ate, I have all the text messages proving she chose what she ate and also bank statements to back up the fact I went to Aldi to get the food! She asked me to buy her loads of food from the shop only 5 days before she alleged that I starved her. Crazy stuff!

She said she was isolated from her family but I have photos of us all together at the beach only a month/6 weeks before the allegation was made. I’m hoping that would be considered evidence too.

I instructed a solicitor who made written representations a few weeks after my arrest to the police with evidence refuting the allegations. I was on bail for three months. That included evidence of all the texts with the shopping lists, Evidence of my debts also showing that I had financial issues at the time and was not controlling her financially. Also it included evidence of the texts I sent a few days to her before she made the allegations, saying I’m fed up with the relationship and we need to work on it otherwise the love will go away.

She alleged that I threaten to divorce her if she tells anyone about the ‘abuse’ and one day she tried to escape but I saw her leaving and stopped her escaping. That was all lies too.

I didn’t hear anything further from the police apart from a NFA letter in September 2021.

It’s weird because whenever we are on FaceTime we talk openly and friendly. She texts me about how she wishes we could work together and provide the best life for our child. She initially denied making any allegations to the police and said she was forced to make allegations by the midwife (bull!) but obviously now she can’t say that given we’ve both appeared before court.

Yet whenever she speaks with cafcass or appears before the court she changes her tone and starts to cry. She’s so fake and very manipulative.

I think she’s a very good actor and that’s what my worry is.

I know deep down she’s doesn’t actually object to me having contact, she just wants to have full control over the frequency, duration and location that the contact takes place. The way she’s trying to guarantee that is through false allegations.
 
These are things you could put in a statement - toned down for the format :) . If she's good at acting and manipulative then yes it would really help to have a barrister for the hearing.
 
Instructed a local direct access barrister with some good reviews. Spoke with him, he went through ex’s statement for the last hearing and thought she was talking rubbish. As he was reading it he literally said ‘Oh fuck off’ are you being serious.

I also told him about the evidence I have of my ex lying (all the texts) and he said he thought he would have a field day in cross examination as some of the lies are demonstrably

Currently waiting on police disclosure which is taking months…

Fact finding hearing is only 6 weeks away now starting to see a light at the end of the tunnel waiting 9 months for the allegations to be investigated (last hearing was December 2020)

In the meantime I’m having ‘indirect contact’ via FaceTime and from my ex’s demeanour she feels totally in control. I had a FaceTime call yesterday with my son.

She asked for the child maintenance payment to be transferred to her bank that day, but I insisted on going through the CMS, as in the past she has accepted the payment from me directly, then weeks later lied to the CMS that saying I didn’t pay and ask them to pursue me further for the payment from my wages. It’s only when I send bank statements proving I paid it etc that they leave alone. So I realised I’m better off just paying the CMS as she can’t lie about not getting paid. When I told her that, she said ‘I don’t even know why I bother even letting you have contact’, I’ve been ‘classy’ with you up until now (how ridiculous and false) and you’re being ungrateful. She then put the phone down and the video call didn’t go ahead. She’s so manipulative it’s a joke.

I don’t know how to deal with that? Should I raise this with the court as I don’t think she should be allowed to stop contact because I insisted on paying her through the CMS?!it’s so frustrating because she says to cafcass that she wants to promote contact and wants to be on better terms with me, but As soon as we are away from court her behaviour is different. It’s frustrating but don’t know how to deal with this type of issue.
 
If the CM is due now, I would pay this month's to her bank account (make sure it's marked with a reference "Child Maintenance". To be honest it costs money to pay it to CMS and them pay it to her. You should be ok if you have the bank statements with the reference showing as "Child Maintenance". Although I can understand you might prefer to pay an additional 6% just to not have the ongoing hassle over that.

Main thing at the moment though, is I would try to avoid getting into disagreements about CM while the court situation is going on. Technically, the courts are not interested in CM - it's supposed to be a separate issue. And although yes it would look bad if she stopped you speaking to or seeing your child because of CM - it "might" influence the court if she says you refused to pay her (and them believe that). You don't want the court order progressed distracted by arguments about CM. Main thing is you show you are whiter than white, have always paid on time etc so she has no reason to criticize you.

If her CM payment was due that day, then I would pay her and then deal with CMS directly. Any disagreement you have with her gives her more power essentially, to lord it over you (and be difficult). Ignore her barbs, sarcasm and trying to wind you up. Keep communication absolutely minimal and fairly formal. We usually suggest "BIFF" emails and texts - that is brief, informative, friendly, formal - as if writing to a business colleague.

So for now I would just text or email her saying something like

"Just to confirm I have paid this month's CM direct to your bank account, as requested" and attach a screenshot of the transfer. Then you have plenty of evidence, if needed in future, that the payment was made. Don't do or say anything else - let it lie - then when the next call is due go ahead as if nothing has happened. She will think she has "won" this one over you but actually you've taken control to ensure she has no argument to be difficult over you talking to your child. Hopefully the next call will go ahead.

Once you have a court order, things can be a bit easier. But yes it's very common for ex's to withold the child over CM payments. They shouldn't but - hard to get that recognised when CM is not part of family court.

And nothing more. Firstly she might then actually let you speak to your child - that's quite important - the less contact you have, the more damage can be done. It's not exactly giving way, it's just making it a small issue among the bigger issues.

Then you can contact CMS and ask them to organise direct pay - if you want. It will still go direct to her bank account but it will be from them rather than from you. But if that is going to cause a rumpus then just keep paying directly, and have the reference for the payment to prove you've paid. If she tries that again, then you have an argument to have payments via the CMS - but don't discuss it with her, just organise it. Maybe save that fight for another day and focus on getting the CAO. One thing that shows in your favour, throughout the court process, is if you can show you've been the calm, reasonable one throughout, always dealt with things courteously (even if she's nasty) and not been party to any conflict type conversations.

Keeping communication minimal too also helps prevent her trying to exert control over you and winding you up with her attitude.
 
Thanks for your advice Ash

Yes I never react angrily. I also know showing emotion or anger can count against you. I’m generally not an angry person but I have found this CAO process frustrating and stressful. But I will present myself with dignity and humility.

Honestly paying CMS the extra 6% is worth the hassle -there is nothing worse than coming back tired after a night shift at work to a letter from cms your wife saying is saying you haven’t paid arrears and being threatened with enforcement action if you don’t pay. I’d rather pay a bit more and let them deal with it.

On another note, I’m due to start a new job in a few weeks, and my salary is going to be about half what it is now. I spoke with cms in April and told them my contract was due to come to an end in august. They said if you’re salary goes down by more than 25% they will reduce the child maintenance payment will be reduced to reflect the lesser income. Obviously she’s not going to take it well when she finds out she is going to be earning less.

She’ll find out just before the fact finding hearing and she’ll probably make even more serious allegations as a reaction! Let’s see how she takes it….
 
*UPDATE*

Had the Pre Trial Review yesterday and the fact finding hearing is in a few weeks.

Pre trial review went really well.

A few days before the pre Trial review I finally filed my statement with all my evidence disproving my ex’s allegations.
This was the first time in over a year that my voice is starting to be heard. Ex claimed she was isolated from family and friends and I produced loads of pictures showing me out on out her family and friends and us all smiling together. All time stamped. my barrister threatened to make a cost application of she didn’t withdraw the false allegations.

She denied it was her in the pic!! When pressed by my barrister she admitted it was her in the photos but claims I faked the dates which is a load of bull shit. Then both our lawyers said we will contest it at trial

They disclosed the police disclosure and my barrister looked at it and said the allegations are clearly a load of crap. The first time I was shown the alleged injuries - the tiniest mark on her forearm - I could barely even tell where the injury was supposed to be. You can tell she pinched her skin then tried to say it was me

She now said she would agree to allow me to have direct contact with my son if I agree to accept the allegations. She’s saying that so she can get a visa to live in the UK

My barrister says he thinks we can see this one through. Wish me luck
 
Good luck! Sounds like it went ok and you’re on your way to getting an order.
 
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