Ex keeps threatening to move away with the kids

[mattb]

Hi,

My ex and I got divorced in 2019 (relatively amicably) and have two girls (8 & 11). We've handled our child care and child maintenance arrangements informally, which has worked okay until recently. My girls live with my ex during the week and I have them at weekends, Friday evening to Sunday evening. We split school holiday child care on an ad hoc basis. I pay my ex £637pcm C.M. and no spousal maintenance. I live close to where I work, about 45 minutes drive away from my ex and I do the weekend pick ups and drop offs.

My eldest does not have a good relationship with her mother and has expressed a desire to live with me. She's also at the age where she needs more emotional support, which she doesn't get from her mother. I would be perfectly happy with that arrangement except for the logistical issues of getting her to/from school, I would not want to separate her from her sister and my ex would never agree to such an arrangement.

I am currently in the final year of a 3 year tenancy agreement for my flat, so I can move closer to the girls towards the end of next year and I would like to then split child care 50/50 with my ex. In hindsight, it was a mistake to move so far away from the girls in the first place. I broached the idea of 50/50 child care with my ex a few months ago and she was not opposed to it, although I don't think she realised that statutory C.M. would then be zero. I expect we'd have to come to a new financial arrangement.

Lately, my ex has repeatedly told the girls that they're going to move away at the end of next year (although she does not specify where, why or how - my ex quit her job after we split and now lives entirely off the C.M. I pay and universal credit, so quite how she would afford to move, I don't know). This is causing the girls a great deal of anxiety and is countering my attempts to reassure them that I will be closer to and will spend more time with them starting next year.

Hypothetically, could my ex just move away with my girls, a sufficient distance to make 50/50 child care impractical? Are there any protections I can put in place to make the girls' situation feel more stable? Has anyone here faced a similar situation and if so, how did they deal with it?

Thanks,
Matt.

 

[Resolute]

With no court order in place, either of you could do anything really, presuming you both have parental responsibility.

My ex wanted to move away when we split. I did not agree. She made a load of false allegations against me and got permission from the court to move away while allegations were looked into. It was game over at that point. She did have to pay through the nose for legal team though.

11 is an age where the court may well want to hear your daughter's view on things. From what you say, this could work in your favour. The protection against her plan would be to apply for the 50/50 Child Arrangement Order and a Prohibited Steps Order at the same time. Even if you fail to get 50/50, it would formalise an arrangement and you might get the PSO anyway.

 

[Ash]

Ok so she could have a boyfriend who lives further away. That's the usual reason for moving if she's not earning much. The plus side of not working (for her) is she could move quickly and easily. Which is the slightly worrying side for you. Are you and your ex in communication fairly well? Has she mentioned it to you or just the girls? If she hasn't mentioned it she maybe doesn't want you to know. She might not be moving to a bf - it might be a reaction to you saying you'd like 50/50.

End of next year is a long time to wait for you to move - kids grow up a lot in a year. Although the eldest one says she'd like to live with you, I doubt your ex would agree to that so it's not likely to happen until she's older (say 16) if she still wants to but 50/50 can be good.

The thing is - what to do. Ideally you need to have a discussion with your ex, if things are amicable - and try and keep it child focused. But if she has another agenda that may not work so well. How amicable are things?

You could perhaps send a tentative text message saying you'd like to discuss plans for the next couple of years for the children and any adult plans. And mention that you will be able to move closer at some point next year and at that time you think it would benefit the girls to spend half the time with each parent and you could work out some financial arrangement.

But you said you already mentioned it to her - she sounded ok with it but then talked about moving further away ............(but not to you).

So legally - if she was to move further away purely to frustrate you seeing the kids that probably wouldn't be allowed - she would need a good reason - good reasons accepted are usually: Moving in with a new partner. Moving for a job. Moving to be closer to family. You won't know if she has any reasons as she might not tell you.

It's always better to avoid court if you can but - if you don't want them whisked away you might need to apply to court. Presumably even if your lease is up there is still a limit as to how far you could move due to work?

Without anything legal in place she could just up and go and you find out later. It has been known for an ex to move to the other end of the country,

I would suggest starting mediation. Send the text first and ask if she will have a discussion with you about future plans. She might do some discussion by return but honestly if it comes to a possible move further away, you can't really rely on anything that's said. She could do anything at any time. So then it comes down to - how honest and amicable are things and is there trust?

See what kind of response you get. If she's a bit vague then you'd be best starting mediation, the mediator would invite her to attend and the idea would be to reach some agreements that are in a parenting plan and written down. This in itself isn't legal or enforceable but if you did have to apply to court, it shows what was agreed, if something different happens.

Personally, without knowing your ex, I would be wary about the situation. If you put yourself in the other person's position, why would she want to give up time with the kids or change her life? She might just prefer things as they are. If your daughter has said the same to her - she'd like to live with you - your ex may feel threatened by that and do the opposite.

I am wondering if your daughter has said that to you now because of the talk about moving away.

If there is a real risk that your ex could move a lot further away you should apply for an urgent prohibited steps order to prevent the children being moved away. This would at least prevent a moonlight flit and have more time for the court to approve or disapprove the move (ie you would also get all the details needed) and what arrangements would be best for the children.

But I would subtly sound things out first. If she has read up on stuff (and you only need to go on Mumsnet) she will know that if a Dad wants more time he can apply to court but if she moves further away he probably won't get more time. She may also know that if a Dad starts mediation then he's intending to apply to court.

An urgent prohibited steps application doesn't actually need mediation first - because it's an urgent application. But it's still best to have a MIAM to make sure the application is accepted (that's the first mediation appointment on your own and you can just ask to be signed off if it's urgent).

The chances are though, that if she has a good reason to move and the kids live with her most of the time, you would be stuck with every other week-end and half the holidays at a distance. That might not be so bad if the distance isn't too far.

I'm trying to think of another strategy. One strategy could be to apply to court for 50/50 now, before she moves. If you have a 50/50 order in place you should be able to keep that even if she moves. Then it would come down to - which parent do they spend term time with and which one do they spend additional holidays with - if the distance is too far. But if you did that she might move quickly during the court process so it could be a waste of time - and the only way to stop that is a prohibited steps application.

I would

a) Carefully sound her out without giving too much away - eg can you have a friendly chat and say you'd like to discuss future plans - mention you might be able to move closer in the next year and ask if she has any plans.

b) If you don't get far with that and can't find out anything more than the kids tell you, start mediation. And consider applying for a prohibited steps order. The outcome of that may be that a) if she has no move planned now it won't make much difference b) if she does have a move planned now then she will probably be allowed to move the kids and you'd be stuck with every other week-end and half the holidays.

The positive is - it would be in a court order which would protect your relationship with the kids more - because it's not unknown for an ex to stop sending them when they get older - saying they have plans or don't want to come this week-end etc. If it's court ordered it protects things more.

I suspect, from what you've said, that your mention of 50/50 has alarmed her. Whether it's the idea of less money, or you having the kids more and her fear of possibly losing them - or a bit of both - we don't know but I suspect mention of 50/50 has triggered her thoughts of moving away.

 

[Ash]

I think how I would see it is - at the moment there are no court orders. You're equal. You could ask for a prohibited steps order and a Child Arrangements order for the children to live with both parents. Based on 5 nights a fortnight now and increasing to 50/50 when you move closer. And say that if she does intend to move then the time would be adjusted by means of additional school holiday periods with you.

In other words, cover every eventuality. If it's "lives with both parents" the order has more clout if she didn't follow it after moving away. Hope that makes sense. You can have "lives with both parents" even if it's not 50/50 (it's usually at least 5 nights a fortnight though). That is what used to be called a joint residence order - so it means neither of you is the resident parent. If you only have every other week-end it can't be "lives with both parents". It would be lives with Mother and spends time with Father. So she would have the "parent with care"/residency status. With the current historical arrangement the court would see her as the lives with parent anyway.

So would 5 nights a fortnight work now? With the distance? 45 minutes isn't too bad. It would be Friday to Monday morning (so you'd drop off at school Monday morning) and one midweek overnight. 45 mins is about the limit the court sets for midweek overnights (which is why I think your ex moving is to prevent more time/midweek overnights).

 

[mattb]

Thanks all for your advice. I will look into prohibited step and child arrangement orders. I sincerely doubt there is a new partner on the scene - At this point, she'd take great delight in trying to rub it in if there was (not that I really care, other than the impact it might have on the girls).