Ex applied to vary court order, advice please

[aj2016]

Hi, hope for some advice here..

We have a court order that stipulates I see my children every other weekend (Fri to Mon), plus a midweek night.
this has been in place for nearly 4 years now and works well.

My ex has been trying over the last 1.5 years to stop midweek contact, she is constantly coming up with reasons why it doesnt work. All of the reasons come from her, not the kids. Eg, my son (age 13) doesnt like getting the train, but he wont say that to you. - this is just one example and even if it was the case (which I highly doubt) he is no longer getting train.
Every barrier she has put in place has been overcome. But now she has moved onto my daughter (age 11) with similar tactics.
We have discussed the routine openly with my children and neither have said they wish to change anything, they say the like it how it is. They have even said things such as 'mum exaggerates' and 'makes small things into a big deal'

However, Ex has applied to the court to make the midweek contact 'flexible' ie only if the children want to come. In reality this would mean that she puts more and more barries in place to make it difficult for them to come. Eg, suggestion new clubs (she always arranged scouts on a friday night), arranging meals out with family, arranging meeting friends - all to prevent contact.
Obviously as the children get older they will have their own voice and arrangements will change, but this is a clear case of her influencing the children to get what she wants, not what the children want. It's been a constant battle for years like this.

I will go court and prevent my views on why I dont feel the order should change, as it works well. A change to a 'flexible' routine would not be consistent, it would lead to the chaotic and stressful routine we had before the court order. Also it means she is in control of contact, it would likely mean I would be offered contact on certain days when she needs the kids picked up from school or certain clubs.

Also, we have tried mediation many times before the original court order, never worked as she just uses it as a way of trying to get my to agree to her controlling demands, rather than looking for a solution to any problems. Cafcass suggested family mediation, but the court have not asked for it before the next hearing - I am in 2 minds, but I dont get any sensible response from her when I suggest it.

The whole thing seems like a waste of time, but she has a history of lying and controlling matters. I really dont want to change the court order, it works perfectly well for myself and the children

any advice appreciated

 

[Ash]

You said Cafcass have recommended mediation before the next hearing. Does that mean you've already had the first hearing? Because I was going to suggest that rather than be on the defensive with this situation, your response to her application could have been to ask for more time rather than less. Eg two consecutive midweek nights - the argument being, as the kids are older, two consecutive nights is better than a single overnight for them and they can do after school clubs or activities whichever parent they're with.

But if you've already had the first hearing then it would need some thinking about as to how to ask for that now.

It sounds positive that Cafcass have suggested mediation (even if it won't work) - because it means they have not recommended anything either way.

Your ex is playing the card that so many of them do when the kids get to this age. Their wishes and feelings are taken into consideration a lot more. But she is wanting to put them through a court process to get her own way. Although they tell you they're happy with the way things are, they will no doubt feel pressurised to agree with what Mum says when talked to (otherwise she wouldn't bother applying to court) - and won't feel comfortable having to take sides - whatever they say will upset one parent or the other.

Is your order a "spends time with" order? You mentioned your 13 year old travelling on the train. Is there some distance between where you and your ex live as that can make a difference if it's quite a journey for midweek overnights (and might negate two consecutive school nights).

My suggestion at this stage would be a) get a direct access barrister for your final hearing - they are likely to get you what you want b) get a half hour's free legal advice to see if, at this stage, you could submit a C2 application form to apply for an order yourself mid proceeding. ie to ask for more time.

It might not be necessary - and may be a bit late in the day for that but might be possible - or you might just be able to ask for this in your final statement.

What did you put on your C7 response form?

 

[Ash]

There are a number of things you could propose in a statement for final hearing a) You could say you agree to no longer have midweek nights in lieu of additional time in school holidays instead. b) you could ask the order to be varied to "lives with both parents" as they children are already with you 5 nights a fortnight and the Mother is not supportive of the childrens family time at your home and there is no reason they can't have activities etc whichever home they're in. What that does is take some parental responsibility away from her so she is not the sole "parent with care" who decides things unilaterally re activities and plans etc. Which she shouldn't be doing anyway but .....And sends a message to her that both parents are equally important. c) argue for two consecutive midweek nights instead as children are older d) ask for week on week off as children are now older - provides stability.

That might make her back off a bit by final hearing as she could stand to lose time rather than gain it. I think it's unlikely you'd get 50/50 but you might get 6/14 instead of 5/14. Or extra time in holidays.

But I do think you need a barrister for the final hearing - if you can afford it. Because some courts are lazy once kids get to 11 and 13 and just order what the kids say. A good barrister can persuade the Judge otherwise - that's their job. Your job is to say their best interests and stability outweigh their "wishes and feelings".

 

[Ash]

My ex tried exactly the same thing when my son was about to start secondary school. She should butt out! You probably feel like I did - quite happy with the existing arrangement and child stable with it - and you accepted less time than her but don't want any more shaved off. So to my mind the way to counter that is ask for more than you want. You might get it - and that will make her think twice - she might even agree something at mediation. Unfortunately these legal matters are all strategy.

 

[aj2016]

many thanks for the reply. The whole process has been a bit strange this time, there was an initial directions hearing, but neither of us had to attend. The court just read the cafcass report and then set directions for the final hearing in June.
We have to submit a report to each other and the court, by mid march, using the witness statement template. I've started it and it's basically just a history of the case and what the current arrangements are and how we feel its working etc.
The children's journey to school is around an hour door to door from my house, but even from mums it is 45 mins - so not a huge difference, but she obviously plays on that sayings it's too long a journey etc.
The thing is, I already have half the school holidays, I don't really want more, as I would be at work anyway, so I'm not sure it would be in the kids best interests. Also, I don't want more midweek contact really, I have 2 other children going to different schools, so juggling everything can be quite tricky, but for 1 night when all 4 kids are here we have a routine worked out that works. I guess 2 midweek nights one 1 week, and none the next might be an option, but not sure it's an improvement
I did have a barrister last time, cost a fortune, but he was good, will look at getting him again.

The thing is every time she wants me to 'compromise' it's actually her chipping away at the time the children are with me

 

[proud_dad]

Hi @aj2016

I think Ash is suggesting that by proposing a counter that is quantitatively more than the current arrangement, it may make your ex reconsider eroding the current arrangement that has worked so well for so long. Family court negotiations are strategic cat and mouse games unfortunately.

I hope it all works out.

PD.

 

[Ash]

Yes - some leverage - ask for 50/50 and accept one extra night maybe Do you mind if I ask what region you live in? If it's somewhere like London, it's not unusual for children to travel longer distances to school or by train. Also what night is your midweek night?

Two consecutive nights would mean the longer journey twice a week, it's true. Two one week and one the next would be a good compromise. I think if you don't ask for more you could get less. It's like fighting over one tiny bit of territory in a way which she is trying to take away and you are trying to keep. But if you come up with - well actually yes the whole thing needs rearranging now the kids are older and with them having long travel to school from both homes, I think 1 week in each home alternately would work better for older children and teens (and the court might agree).

That is also 50/50. How would that work for you? Ok so it's an hour to school and back each day but it's a routine for a week - rather than one day of the week being different to all the others.

If you wanted to really be bold you could suggest that there is better school nearer you that is no further from your ex (if that's possible).