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bobs

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hi everyone

this is my 1st time on the forum and not to sure where to start with everything, so I hope anyone that reads this will just bear with me, as this might be all over the show due to needing to get this out.

me and my ex partner has had a very rocky relationship for the last 3 years of a 12 year relationship, and it came to a head last June when she grabbed our daughter by the throat, I told her we needed help from social services and when I suggested this she tried to take our kids out of school and run away with them, thankfully I managed to stop that, that's how social service had got involved with our family.

I am still currently living in the same home as her as I have serious concerns about the way she would raise the kids and even my daughter has said she doesn't want to live with her and has told social service this, her main fight seems to be the property we live in and she believes its given that because she is the mother she is entitled to be the main carer for the kids, she has alienated me away from my step daughter to the point I can't even text her or talk with her without talking to my ex about the conversation, she says its for my step daughters protection, which is lies as my step daughter has fought for a relationship with myself.

since then my ex has made such lies up about me being abusive (so she can get legal aid) and from what ive read that seems to the usual, knowing full well that I won't be able to get legal help due to my finances. ive since been dragged into court for a NMO and had an interim order for 6 weeks, luckily for me I was able to disprove all of her allegations and we both had cross undertakings (which she has broken on a consistent basis).

I decided to take out a CAO against her, as I believe that its the most common sense to sort out the main carers for the kids then a transfer of tenancy would be relatively straight forward, but unfortunately she has has other ideas. we have both been interviewed by CAFCASS and the report seems to be in my favour they recommend a fact finding hearing as well as doctors reports from herself regarding her mental health issues and engagement with her meds, so am wondering how long it normally takes to get into the first court date from then the report was filed at the end of January, it has also been recommended that the section 7 report be filed from our social worker.

we are in the middle of an occupancy order as I contested this knowing once again she has lied and pretty much said the same things from the dismissed NMO, she has lied to the judge saying about police records about me being abusive, so the judge has ordered her to make another statement with details and evidence which she hasn't done, and some of the things she has accused me of is laughable at best

ive now heard through the grapevine that she's going for a transfer of tenancy order which I will contest, I feel that this is possibly a way to try and make me give up and just walk away but I can't do that, and ever look at my kids in the eye again.

I hope that this can get resolved quickly for our children but it looks like ive got a big uphill battle which I won't rest until its concluded, so I hope that anyone reading this, it will give you a bit of hope that if I can soldier on through this, you can.

many thanks for reading this and I wish you the best in the future
 
Hello and welcome. You've been dealing with a lot and it sounds positive so far - even if a lot still to deal with. A CAO isn't really something you take out "against" her - it's an order to determine who the children live with and spend time with and how often. So you may need to be careful with terminology there when dealing with court as everything relating to a CAO is about the childrens best interests - they are no actually interested in what is best for parents (even though that can be one and the same thing).

Are social services still involved (ie keeping an eye on things)? They will have been asked to the Section 7 because they're already involved.

The housing issue is more complex and I'm not expert. But you are doing the right thing by not moving out. It's best to get Child Arrangements sorted before you move out (if you do).

Mothers do tend to get prioritised with the housing sometimes - depending on what they say. Other Dads experiences have been the ex moved out (taking the children) but then applied for an occupation order and the Dad was then ordered to move out and let the Mum move back in with the children.

I'm not quite clear if you're all still living at the house, but it sounds like it. Did you include your step daughter on the CAO? It's worth a try but it's a long shot. As you're not her legal parent, if the legal parents refuse to allow you to spend time with her, after separation, then there's not much the courts can do there. You might get indirect contact ordered. How old is your stepdaughter? It's worth pushing for - you never know.
 
hi ash

thank you for the reply

I am still in the property, and the only way I will leave is either with the kids or if I am ordered out by the courts due to the fact that my oldest biological child has said she wants to live with me, and luckily she is 11 so I know the courts will take into account her wishes and feelings.

in regards to my step daughter she is 16 and has pretty much moved out and living with her boyfriend and his family due to the fact her mum has put so much pressure on her to not talk to me and is still playing the parental rights card, which is heart breaking as ive raised her for the best part of 14 years, but I guess that's just part of her strategy, to make me walk away. so I didn't add her to the order.

social service are still heavily involved and we have a child in need plan, which she still continues to break, so all I do is just report what ever she does and hopefully this will gain me some sort of advantage in being able to have the children with me on a full time basis as that is what im fighting for.

thank you for the help with the terminology, and you are absolutely correct, that just seems to be my mantra with everything I say and do in regards to all the cases she has brought up against me, and the case I have filed. with the house I personally don't care about it and have made it perfectly clear to social service and anyone that has asked me, that I am here to just make sure that the kids are safe and healthy.

im just keeping my head down with all this and chipping away at my case and reacting in the most positive way I can, and to be honest ive actually surprised myself in what ive accomplished with all this
 
You've achieved a lot! Hang in there. If your stepdaughter is 16 they won't make an order re her anyway. At 16 she can choose for herself - so you can see her - if she wants to and if she can cope with the pressure not to see you. At that age she will have her own mind, don't worry. Especially after the history. It might be easier for her as well in a couple of years and you can always Whatsapp and arrange things her Mum doesn't know about.

You mentioned your ex going for a transfer of tenancy order. Does this mean you live in a rented house? Presumably there'll be a way of contesting this.
 
Transfer of Tenancy is where the woman makes a request for the rental agreement to be in her name only, this means that at that point you no longer become liable for the rent and would have to leave as its her home and you are there without her consent.
 
How long is it till your Child Arrangements hearing? If she does manage to get you out, it would be good if you had an interim order for child arrangements before you had to move out - if she gets the transfer of tenancy. You would need to look around for somewhere else to rent quickly then. What did you ask for on the Child Arrangements Application? That first application wording and what you ask for is quite important.
 
thank you that means a lot to me

with my step daughter, due to social services being involved I can't be seen as to flout the rules my ex has put into place but me and my step daughter have agreed that when she turns 18 then everything she wants to know will be disclosed (if that's what she choses)

yeah we are in a council house, and I would imagine that I can, im self repping and will only be able to get a barrister for any final hearings, but I am hoping that the court will use a common sense approach about the tenancy and wait till the COA is sorted as a way to decide what is for the best of the kids. I have told her solicitors I wouldn't contest anything is she agreed for me to be the main carer to the children and let us all leave, but that got shot down

so far they have used the common sense route and can tell she's lying, and even the judge ripped her witness statement to bits saying there was no proof of anything, and all it was, was just stories with no proof, luckily he ordered all our child in need plans and assessments as well as police records, as she told him there was some, but the only records from the police have been when I had to call them due to her harassing me, so im hoping that all this is just tactics from her solicitors to make me just give in and walk away

I asked for the judgement to decide who the main carer to the children will be, that way my thinking will be that if I am awarded the main carer then it would be easier for me to get the transfer of tenancy, I had a bit of help from a solicitor on just an advisory role as I can't afford the Money that was quoted and she has just said with everything just worry about the CAO, due to to the fact I can quite easily prove its my ex that's abusive, and the kids want to live with me, and with the reports I have, the judges shouldn't order me out until the CAO is done, as I can argue that its not in the best interests of the kids.

so my game plan is just to keep concentrating on the kids and fight everything she chucks my way, with facts from social services, schools, and every other report that I can get and just keep it fact based and as unemotional as possible, (which is the hardest part of this), sort out the CAO and then make my play depending on how that goes.

if that doesn't go my way then il leave as I don't want my kids to go through all this,

thank you ash and invisible
 
What might seem sensible and logical to us, doesn't always go down well with solicitors and social services who seem to have an ingrained belief that a Mother should always be the "resident" parent - the one the children live with. And the best a Father can expect is 50/50. Even when the Mother has welfare issues, social services tend to offer support to the Mother rather than recommend the Father is the main "resident" parent. Unless she is particularly dangerous - and then there are cases where they tell the Dad to keep the children - but will then want time reintroduced with the Mother after therapy eg. So I am not surprised her solicitors shot you down. If anything I think Solicitors are more biased than social services in that respect. It is incredibly hard for a Dad to get sole residency. Unless both parents agree it.

I say residency - those are the old terms (contact and residency) - prior to that it was access and custody and now replaced with "lives with" and "spends time with". Courts do look at the best interests of the children but they tend to like to allow both parents to be involved if it's safe.

Frustratingly if a Dad is seen as a welfare issue he may only get indirect time (letters and cards). You're up against society believing Mum should stay in the home with the kids.

Did you ask for the kids to live with you in the application or anything specifically? Common sense and family courts isn't something that always goes together! In fact one difficulty is, when highlighting the Mother's safety issues, it can come across to them that you are being derogatory about her. Which doesn't help at times. If she is derogatory about you, they expect it. It's kind of one rule for one and one for the other.

I would say you should aim for 50/50 shared care for a Child Arrangements order. That wouldn't relate to who lived in the house - it would be an order for the children to live with both parents half the time, in different houses.

Unfortunately if she makes allegations against you, they have to investigate them (usually a section 7 report) to be on the safe side - there;s no evidence allowed until after that report so it's all based on hearsay at that stage. Ideally what they want is both parents saying - no welfare issues with the other parent - then it's just a case of deciding how much time the children are with each of them.

So probably best that you don't move out until you've got the Child Arrangements order. Which can be written to progress - eg one set of arrangements before you leave and one set after (assuming it's you that leaves).

I'm sorry you're in this situation - it's stressful.
 
at the minute it seems to be in my favour, ( I know that can change very quickly though) the initial CAFCASS report is saying about the mother disclosing medical records due to her having metal health issue. and the various other things and it seems to be directed to my ex to prove a lot of things, the only thing it really states about me, is a fact finding to prove that Im not domestically violent, which I can prove, due to videos pictures, text messages and police records.

I have school records stating that one of my children feels safest with me, social services records state about parental alienation and how that effects my step daughters emotional welfare, as well as the physical aspect of her grabbing my daughter by the throat, as well as police records about her braking promises to the court, and braking her own undertakings, and my support network being in the best interest of the kids

CAFCASS are also recommending that our social worker does the section 7 report due to them having extensive knowledge about what's happening in the home.

and as my ex has tried to play down all the things that she has done wrong, with no aspect of remorse or accountability, which is helping my case massively.
 
You might need to wait and see what the section 7 report says and recommends. If they want a fact finding hearing then presumably the Mother has made allegations against you - yet is still living with you?
 
she has made allegations against me, but the allegations made are very weak at best and luckily I can prove that with text messages and conflicting evidence she has put in already.

she has also broken promises to the court, as well as undertakings, which im hoping now ive highlighted them to the court, will also paint her in less favourable way, she has also lied to the judge when we was last in there saying about police records to support her case.

so he has ordered them to be disclosed for the occupational order hearing, as well as all the child in need plans, I believe that they know she's lying but gave her a chance to disclose the truth and she didn't take it.

so im trying to take advantage of this as much as I can, but must admit I find it hard to as this goes against everything about my values and mindset.
 
hi guys

another little twist In my case which I believe will help me.

a little bit of back story here, the arrangement we have before today was on my days off from work would be my days with the kids and take care of everything they need, and the days I work would be her days. she used to work early in the mornings and in the afternoon, but she stopped working in the morning, the month before she took out the NMO against myself, (think the doctor got played there a bit)

I received an email from her solicitors today, asking if possible that I could assist her with the school runs every morning morning due to the fact that her sick leave has run out and if I don't help her she would lose her job, and she would not to be able look after the kids financially.

which is amazing as the order she is taking out against me, wants to boot me out of the home, so I have raised the question of how will this order be in the best interests of the kids, which will help my case I staying in the home, as I know that the biggest part of her case is to force me away before the CAO takes place so she can claim it will be in the best interests of the children for her to be the main carer for them

but the best thing is that its all written by her solicitors so I can use this letter to prove that, as she has no local support network, (and the ones she does the children don't even like) in the CAO to prove that she will not be able to provide for them as there is no one local that could help.

I must admit it has taken all my strength to accept her request, as part of me does want to say no, with the stuff she's put me and more importantly the kids through, she should suffer like she has made us, but in the long run I know that is just emotion, and I just got to use my head with this one.

I hope what ive written makes sense to anyone that reads this, but as this is such a messy story and I haven't covered my whole back story in the previous posts as to be honest there is so much that has gone on and is still going on, its hard to keep track
 
I am a bit confused on some parts! So you're both still living in the house, but she has taken out an NMO and asks solicitors to ask you to take the kids to school - is that right?! How can she have an NMO to keep you away if you're both in the house? Yes the solicitor's letter will be evidence that she thinks you're safe to see the kids.

However that wouldn't be a reason for you to stay in the house - if you were living somewhere else, you could still pick the kids up and take them to school. So be careful replying to that in case it's a trick. If they know she's taken out an occupation order. If you reply to them, keep it very brief - something like:

I am happy to take my children to school in the mornings as I live in the same house with them and prepare their breakfast in the morning.

If she has applied for an occupation order, then you'll hear about it and there'll be a hearing and you can defend yourself. But it might be that she gets the occupation order, then you'd have to move out. I would take them to school in the mornings as much as you can, even if you have to move out, because that's parenting time and will do you favours in court as well. Although obviously when there's a CAO you will only do that on the days they're with you - unless you agree otherwise. It would be her responsibility to organise if it was days they were with her.
 
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I know how you feel about it being confusing, im sorry about that, but it's so hard to type with so many different aspects in play, and honestly at time it makes my head spin, so I can only imagine how it sounds to someone reading this.

there was an interim NMO taken out against me but was dismissed with us both having undertakings, so that's behind us now.

we are both still living in the home together as I don't trust her with raising the kids in a proper way, due to things she has done in the past regarding the kids and even now, ie shouting at them for no reason, parental alienation, and trying to make them feel bad for simply talking to me or wanting to spend time with me.

right now she has taken out an OO against me which I have contested and we return to court sometime in may, and the main reason for her stating about having the OO is that I am abusive to her and my children. in the hearing for me to contest the OO she had no evidence or even a scenario about anything I have done it was just all lies and half truths, with nothing to back it up so the judge ordered her to rewrite and give specifics, which in her new statement she still hasn't done, its still the same statement but with a few dates written and a gloss over to try and make her look like a victim, she even claimed to the judges face there was police reports, which have all come back proving that once again she has lied, and the only time the police have been called is when I was being victimised by her.

with the letter sent from her solicitors yesterday, proves that she will not be able to be there for the kids when they need her due to her job, or she won't be able to support them financially, she works early in the mornings (starts at 6.30am) so the letter proves as well that its best that I stay in the home as there is no one that would be able to look after the children while she works.

in my reply I have stated that of course im happy to be there to do the school runs to not only help support the mother but will give me some more quality time with them, but asked how she believes that things would work out if the OO is granted, I got a wishy washy reply stating that if it was successful, she would find a way around her problem.

going forward I have applied for a CAO with the request for a lives with/spends time order, as I was advised from a solicitors that would sort the problems regarding the tenancy, as if I was successful, I can use this as the reason for a transfer of tenancy order.

we have had the CAFCASS report stating that it should be ordered that a fact finding hearing should be done due to her allegations of DV, but she should put in doctors letters and proof about her taking her medications for her mental health, about her progress with a parenting course and a few other things but nothing requested that I should do (except the fact finding hearing). they have also asked for our social worker to complete an section 7 report, which is good news for me as she has extensive knowledge on how the kids think and feel about their mum, but am awaiting a date for that to come through.

I hope this has made it a bit easier to understand
 
Yep sorry you did explain some of that earlier - apologies for missing those bits. Yes I am fully in the picture now

with the letter sent from her solicitors yesterday, proves that she will not be able to be there for the kids when they need her due to her job, or she won't be able to support them financially, she works early in the mornings (starts at 6.30am) so the letter proves as well that its best that I stay in the home as there is no one that would be able to look after the children while she works.
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Yes that is a good argument re the occupation order, but not really an argument in family court as they are used to separated couples having to make their own arrangements.

Right now be very careful what you say to her solicitors. It's tempting to "make points" to them but that means they now know you could use that in a hearing about the OO. Keep things close to your chest. Now they know you've raised that issue they have already had chance to think of a defence to it. So better to keep things and spring them at the hearing and not give them prior warning of your arguments.

It's an unreal way of living but everything is strategic and bluff and double bluff. I think even in an OO order they wouldn't see that as a reason to keep you in the house and her solicitors could say it's just convenient for now and she can make other arrangements (as they just did). Family court would also see that as being negative about the Mother (and however bad she is, it's always best not to be negative about the Mother to the court) as in - she won't be able to look after them. Even though it's probably true and literal, it can come across as you doing her down a bit.

It sounds good that social services know the situation before they write the Section 7.
 
thanks ash, all I keep saying this is like playing chess, the only reason ive put that bit in is that I plan to ask to add that letter and my response into evidence for OO the judge will see that I am more than willing to still help her, as its in the best interest of the kids but will also read that she won't be able look after the kids.

my main aim at the min is just to keep in the home as long as possible until the CAO is sorted, that's the general advice I've read on the forum, then depending how that goes il either be able to stay and remove her from the property or if this doesn't go the way I hope, then il leave.

my saving grace part is the fact that my daughters have told SS numerous times that they wish to be with me, so hopefully this will be conveyed during the CAO process, and the fact that she has broken her own promises to the court, and various part on the child In need plans regularly, so fingers crossed that if I highlight all these things when dealing with both cases I might be able to keep the children with me.

I know that's a big ask especially as I know that most cases end up the other way round, but if I don't go for that then id never forgive myself.

I would also like to add that you are a diamond on here, and every post I've seen you are always here to help people in need and for that sir, you are an amazing person, and have my full respect and admeration
 
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I’ve red your story and I know how you feeling, you doing well and all I can say is good luck!!!
 
I know that's a big ask especially as I know that most cases end up the other way round, but if I don't go for that then id never forgive myself.
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I know exactly what you mean. I could never leave my son with my ex and not know how he is. Our kids rely on us to fix it. I think you have a good chance if the social services report is favourable to you. These professionals hold a lot of power in that respect - in what they recommend - but it doesn't all ride on that. You can also convince a Judge at a final hearing to sway things your way. A good position statement helps. Sometimes professionals sit on the fence a bit in their reports and don't actually recommend anything and leave it to get sorted at final hearing.

Kind words - but I had a lot of support from other Dads, some on here, and most of us want to help others who are where we were.
 
bobs said:
hi everyone

this is my 1st time on the forum and not to sure where to start with everything, so I hope anyone that reads this will just bear with me, as this might be all over the show due to needing to get this out.

me and my ex partner has had a very rocky relationship for the last 3 years of a 12 year relationship, and it came to a head last June when she grabbed our daughter by the throat, I told her we needed help from social services and when I suggested this she tried to take our kids out of school and run away with them, thankfully I managed to stop that, that's how social service had got involved with our family.

I am still currently living in the same home as her as I have serious concerns about the way she would raise the kids and even my daughter has said she doesn't want to live with her and has told social service this, her main fight seems to be the property we live in and she believes its given that because she is the mother she is entitled to be the main carer for the kids, she has alienated me away from my step daughter to the point I can't even text her or talk with her without talking to my ex about the conversation, she says its for my step daughters protection, which is lies as my step daughter has fought for a relationship with myself.

since then my ex has made such lies up about me being abusive (so she can get legal aid) and from what ive read that seems to the usual, knowing full well that I won't be able to get legal help due to my finances. ive since been dragged into court for a NMO and had an interim order for 6 weeks, luckily for me I was able to disprove all of her allegations and we both had cross undertakings (which she has broken on a consistent basis).

I decided to take out a CAO against her, as I believe that its the most common sense to sort out the main carers for the kids then a transfer of tenancy would be relatively straight forward, but unfortunately she has has other ideas. we have both been interviewed by CAFCASS and the report seems to be in my favour they recommend a fact finding hearing as well as doctors reports from herself regarding her mental health issues and engagement with her meds, so am wondering how long it normally takes to get into the first court date from then the report was filed at the end of January, it has also been recommended that the section 7 report be filed from our social worker.

we are in the middle of an occupancy order as I contested this knowing once again she has lied and pretty much said the same things from the dismissed NMO, she has lied to the judge saying about police records about me being abusive, so the judge has ordered her to make another statement with details and evidence which she hasn't done, and some of the things she has accused me of is laughable at best

ive now heard through the grapevine that she's going for a transfer of tenancy order which I will contest, I feel that this is possibly a way to try and make me give up and just walk away but I can't do that, and ever look at my kids in the eye again.

I hope that this can get resolved quickly for our children but it looks like ive got a big uphill battle which I won't rest until its concluded, so I hope that anyone reading this, it will give you a bit of hope that if I can soldier on through this, you can.

many thanks for reading this and I wish you the best in the future
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I'm sorry that you are having to go through all this. In relation to Cafcass, they almost always recommend a FFH when they write their safeguarding letter even though they won't have seen any evidence, spoken to the parties and so on. In my case, even though my ex made a number of false allegations of domestic abuse, and is indeed the abuser in the relationship, I argued successfully that a FFH would just be another battleground for adult conflict and not in the children's best interest. As I want a shared care order, the best approach is to be civil with the mother and let her drown in her lies and bs. Judge sided with me and agreed that a FFH was not necessary. Ex appealed, and the appealed judge reached the same conclusion.
 
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