Deflated after FHDRA

[BilalDad]

Hi.

Short context: I filed a c100 as my ex has consistently ignored requests for my son/changed days last minute / not allowed for any clear or consistent routine and ultimately I want shared care.

She counter filed a c1a and alleged domestic abuse even though we haven’t spoken since October last year, asked for a PSO and pushed for me to no longer have any contact unless at a contact centre.

Despite the cafcass recommendations for interim arrangements to remain as they are between now and a Fact Finding hearing, somehow the result has gone in her favour and it will be a contact centre as she doesn’t believe she can trust anyone in my family to support contact with me - despite me never having supported contact in this whole time since October and now. All his toys / clothes everything is here and I feel like we are taking a huge step backwards - as well as the extra cost!

Feeling really deflated and not sure what to do. Any advice would be appreciated.

 

[blindex]

Hi there

I'm very sad to hear what happened to you. It's good that you came to this forum as there are loads of dads in a similar situation with a good understanding of how the system works so they can help you.

Unfortunately allegations of domestic abuse were made, and the family court is a risk averse beast.

In my case, at the FHDRA, Cafcass despite having not seen or heard any evidence from me, recommended that even SUPERVISED contact in a contact centre was not recommended.

The judge, thankfully, ignored this bullshit and ordered supervised contact.

Now the contact centre is not as bad as you think. It is up to you to chose a centre, and there are quite a few nice centres out there. They are flooding with dads in a similar situation, and because they won't have heard any bullshit from your ex, they are pretty much independent unlike social services, the school etc.

You need to forget your ex, and concentrate on your children.

Leave the wrong with the wrongdoer.

My contact centre reports were glowing and from then on my ex was wrong footed all along the way.

My immediate advice is for you then is to shop around for a good contact centre if you can, focus on the children, and communicate with the ex only via email from now on.

Now has the judge ordered a FFH? This is a pretty fundamental point. I hope not. In my case, the judge waited to see the reports from the CC to recommend one or not. Again, at the FHDRA, the judge ignored Cafcass recommendations for a FFH.

 

[BilalDad]

Hi there

I'm very sad to hear what happened to you. It's good that you came to this forum as there are loads of dads in a similar situation with a good understanding of how the system works so they can help you.

Unfortunately allegations of domestic abuse were made, and the family court is a risk averse beast.

In my case, at the FHDRA, Cafcass despite having not seen or heard any evidence from me, recommended that even SUPERVISED contact in a contact centre was not recommended.

The judge, thankfully, ignored this bullshit and ordered supervised contact.

Now the contact centre is not as bad as you think. It is up to you to chose a centre, and there are quite a few nice centres out there. They are flooding with dads in a similar situation, and because they won't have heard any bullshit from your ex, they are pretty much independent unlike social services, the school etc.

You need to forget your ex, and concentrate on your children.

Leave the wrong with the wrongdoer.

My contact centre reports were glowing and from then on my ex was wrong footed all along the way.

My immediate advice is for you then is to shop around for a good contact centre if you can, focus on the children, and communicate with the ex only via email from now on.

Now has the judge ordered a FFH? This is a pretty fundamental point. I hope not. In my case, the judge waited to see the reports from the CC to recommend one or not. Again, at the FHDRA, the judge ignored Cafcass recommendations for a FFH.

Hey mate,

How do you go about getting a report from them and how long were you having to go there ?

It wasn’t even a judge / magistrate it was a legal advisor and they’ve asked for another hearing on the 18th July looking more at her allegations of abuse. And then a FFH - even though her barrister was even arguing against the need for a FFH as it is focussing on disputed events from the past that no one wants to relive.

 

[blindex]

You can find accredited contact centres from the national association https://naccc.org.uk/find-a-centre/

You'll have to find a centre that offers supervised contact and request a report for each contact session. In my case, contact was ordered for 8 weeks on Saturdays for 2 hours (in essence all the Saturdays before the next hearing). The reports are then compiled and sent to you and the mother and you need to make sure you get them before the next hearing. Sometimes the CC take a bit of time to write the reports (in my case it took them two weeks after each session) so you must keep an eye on that so you get them before you next hearing.

Now, it seems that you are representing yourself, is that true? If you can, I suggest you get some legal advice.

You need to understand what has been ordered for the next hearing and make sure you comply with the order.

What does the order say for the next hearing?

 

[BilalDad]

Haven’t got it in writing from her barrister yet as hearing was only yesterday but my plan is to get representation for me moving forwards as her allegations have made this a bit out of my depth to respond to.

That’s really helpful, in terms of the report from the CC did you submit that ahead of the court date and if so how much bearing did that have on their decision?

 

[blindex]

Ok, you need to be very careful now:

• Once you have a draft order from her barrister, I'd absolutely have it reviewed by a solicitor before you agree with the order.
• Be wary of dirty tricks by her barrister of adding anything that has not been agreed or discussed. A solicitor will be able to advise you with that.

In terms of the CC reports they are absolutely massive, massive, massive. Judges like evidence (at least the good ones). If it weren't for the contact centre reports I'd be absolutely shafted so make sure you find a centre that is child friendly, looks nice, clean, has got a good selection of toys that are age appropriate. During the contact centre make sure you bring healthy snacks for your child (mine are seven and tree), be relaxed and natural with them, have fun, etc.

You need to tell the CC about your next hearing and make sure they are able to produce the reports ahead of time. My CC released the reports every 2 weeks. They do allow you to challenge the note taking, but in my case there wasn't anything to challenge.

I believe that because the CC reports were overwhelmingly positive in my case, that swayed the judge against a FFH.

 

[BilalDad]

yeah definitely feel her barrister is the type to add things in as she was trying to say I agreed to things that I hadn’t done during the FHDRA. I’ve heard there’s waiting lists for contact centres and my ex has done her usual delay tactics of now saying she will wait until Friday to decide whether she thinks it needs to be a contact centre or if we can stick with the current arrangements of my son coming round - but only under the new condition of supervision from my mum based on nothing other than her own paranoia.

A bit anxious that with the next hearing only 2 months away, by the time I even get into a CC there’s not going to be any time for them to produce a report etc.

In terms of presenting it - did you send it in ahead of the next hearing or just bring it along on the day?

 

[blindex]

Ok, unfortunately you will have to pay for the contact centre. Also to bear in mind and this very much depends on the order:

• The judge may order supervised contact in a contact centre, in which case you have no choice but find one, or
• The contact can be supervised, but this can be done in the community or even at your own house. You need to find an accredited professional who will write a report of the contact

Again, i'd recommend you seek legal advice if you can. Your ex should not dictate whether contact should be supervised or not or by whom, that's the judge's decision. That should be specified in the order following the FHDRA.

The order should say when papers need to be submitted before the next hearing, but at the latest they should be submitted a day in advance.

Go phone up the CCs in your area and check their availability

 

[uzzy41]

Hi.

Short context: I filed a c100 as my ex has consistently ignored requests for my son/changed days last minute / not allowed for any clear or consistent routine and ultimately I want shared care.

She counter filed a c1a and alleged domestic abuse even though we haven’t spoken since October last year, asked for a PSO and pushed for me to no longer have any contact unless at a contact centre.

Despite the cafcass recommendations for interim arrangements to remain as they are between now and a Fact Finding hearing, somehow the result has gone in her favour and it will be a contact centre as she doesn’t believe she can trust anyone in my family to support contact with me - despite me never having supported contact in this whole time since October and now. All his toys / clothes everything is here and I feel like we are taking a huge step backwards - as well as the extra cost!

Feeling really deflated and not sure what to do. Any advice would be appreciated.

Omg , the courts are against us , how the hell can they say” they think of the best interest of the child”

I know it’s very hard , I can’t even work or think atm. Every min of the day I struggle but you know what im
Not gonna give up . I felt like giving up and at times I think what’s the point but if you don’t try you will never know.

I got back in the gym, feel very weak because of the stress. I am
Not gonna let her take my sanity away.

These ex’s will struggle, believe me they will.

 

[proud_dad]

@BilalDad , these are all hoops and hurdles you must pass through as a non-resident parent. It's hard not to let it get to you to achieve what should be normal, a parent-child relationship.

I listened to members of this forum who made me realise that whatever the courts throw at you, I had to endure it until I got an outcome that allowed my kids to have a meaningful relationship with me. Of course during all the hearings, the alienation of the kids, form filling, statement writing - it almost pushed me over the edge.

Stay strong, don't give up, endure the difficulties, as your kids need you more than you will ever know.

 

[BilalDad]

Thank you mate that’s some good encouragement

 

[Ash]

I can't believe an FHDRA was done by a Legal Adviser! Not even magistrates? Assume your ex had a barrister and that's why this result has happened. That is too much delay - further FHDRA in July and then possibly a fact find. If you can afford it, I would have a barrister consultation now. Barrister my advise emailing the court to ask for an earlier directions hearing and speed things up.

The problem at the moment is - the system is overloaded and ex's legal teams are taking advantage of the system.

That is shocking. You've had good advice about contact centre time and reports but I absolutely would get a consultation with a barrister now and see what they advise you do. The way the scheduling has been left there is too much delay. And if a FF is needed why bother with another FHDRA first? It will cost money for a Barrister consultation - maybe £1000 - but you will get good advice and hopefully avoid the dirty tricks.

 

[BilalDad]

Yeah I was really deflated. The legal advisor didn’t even read my position statement until 2 mins before it began and I’d spent days trying to get that right.

I’m going to get a barrister on board from Monday but I just feel this is all delay tactics from my ex and her barrister to continue preventing contact and then go with the “he doesn’t have a bond with his dad” line of argument. It’s just upsetting because even cafcass said there are no real safeguarding risks so for things to continue as they had been during the interim but now we have taken a step backwards.

I really wanted the section 7 to be issued so that they can just prove quite quickly that in no way am I a risk or threat but looking at how things are playing out it doesn’t seem this will be issued for several months.

 

[blindex]

Ok, get a barrister and try to nip this is the bud right from the start.

You do not wish to go down the section 7 report because it could take four months for one to be produced from the date it is ordered by the judge. So if your next hearing is in July you could be looking at a November date for a s7 report, etc....

 

[BilalDad]

Thing is, I really want one done because it will put all allegations to bed about him not being safe - without one - she will just continue to restrict access and my reason for applying in the first place was to take control away from her.

 

[blindex]

You need to forget your ex from now on. She will continue throwing allegations against you no matter what. Don't fall for it. It is hard and easier said then done, but leave the wrong with the wrongdoer.

Focus on your children and what you want from the courts instead.

If Cafcass has said that interim contact should remain the same and you pose no risk, this is massive in your favour right at the start.

It will be the judge that will determine that you are a safe parent or not mostly, not the section 7. Only a judge can determine if you committed domestic abuse or not and for that the court will order a Fact Finding Hearing which you wish to avoid at all cost.

The problem with section 7 regarding parenting is that the bar is pretty low. Cafcass is only concerned if the parent is able to provide the BASIC needs of the children. As long as they are clothed, fed and attending school they do not care.

The more this farce drags on the more it cements your ex positions as the primary carer and you do not wantt that.

The more she will upset you by coming up with spurious allegations at every hearing, and she can lie with impunity no matter what.

 

[BilalDad]

I hear that, however I thought it was interesting that my ex’s barrister said that she wants to avoid a Fact Finding Hearing - most likely because they believe there are no facts to find and perhaps they feel this will go in my favour ?

 

[proud_dad]

@BilalDad, there are many reasons why she would want to avoid fact finding- something to hide, too expensive to have legal, over-confident. There is no point trying to work out motive, just focus on your kids and demonstrating that a relationship with you is beneficial to their emotional, physical and educational welfare.

I had a S7, and it prolonged my case by 3 months. It was stressful and ultimately the Judge on the day at the final hearing just listened to the cafcass case worker summarise our witness statements.

Just forget your ex. As blindex said, no matter what, she'll try to fling crap at you. Be stoic and just accept this so you can plot a straight line path.

 

[Ash]

Can I just get this clear? No Fact Find, no section 7? Therefore, no welfare issues. So why no interim time ordered? What did her barrister do/say to prevent that? That is the positive about no section 7 - if they deem it unnecessary then there are no issues with you. I understand you would like more opportunity to show/explain things, but basically - once Cafcass are done with the case it comes down to evidence and statements at final hearing - because once Cafcass are done with the case it is deemed there are no welfare issues.

It's true a barrister can dominate proceedings and bend the Judges ear and perhaps you didn't get the opportunity to, or have the legal knowledge to, disagree with the points the barrister made. But the Judge should know that is unreasonable to withold all contact when there are no welfare issues. But maybe it wasn't a Judge? Was it magistrates or a "Legal Adviser" at the hearing? If not a Judge then I reckon you should be asking for one.