Court dismissed case. What now?

[jtcm0]

Good morning,

On Tuesday (19th November) my case went to court but because myself and my ex had agreed on the child arrangements part of the case (over night stays with myself and my daughter) and there is only Christmas and general holidays to sort out now the court decided to dismiss the case and told us to go back to mediation. However I know my ex isn't going to keep an open mind and be willing to compromise in mediation it will be her way or no way. What do I do? Do I start the mediation process and hope she will compromise or leave it and just do what she wants? Even if I do start the mediation process I don't think they will see us before Christmas this year so i think we will have to do Christmas her way otherwise I wont see my daughter at all through the Christmas period The court wouldn't even put what we have agreed regarding over nights in to an order, so I fear that if I say one "wrong" thing or do something my ex doesn't like she will prevent or stop my overnights with my daughter. I'm really stuck now. Also I feel as though the courts dismissing the case has effectively given my ex a "free pass" so that if in the future something else happens where we disagree then the courts will not entertain it and she will know this and not work with me regarding our daughter because "they'll just dismiss it" The judges even said when dismissing the case they were under pressure because the had another case coming up after me and my ex. Honestly I don't know what to do now and any advice or help would be great. Thank you

 

[Femto]

Good morning,

On Tuesday (19th November) my case went to court but because myself and my ex had agreed on the child arrangements part of the case (over night stays with myself and my daughter) and there is only Christmas and general holidays to sort out now the court decided to dismiss the case and told us to go back to mediation. However I know my ex isn't going to keep an open mind and be willing to compromise in mediation it will be her way or no way. What do I do? Do I start the mediation process and hope she will compromise or leave it and just do what she wants? Even if I do start the mediation process I don't think they will see us before Christmas this year so i think we will have to do Christmas her way otherwise I wont see my daughter at all through the Christmas period The court wouldn't even put what we have agreed regarding over nights in to an order, so I fear that if I say one "wrong" thing or do something my ex doesn't like she will prevent or stop my overnights with my daughter. I'm really stuck now. Also I feel as though the courts dismissing the case has effectively given my ex a "free pass" so that if in the future something else happens where we disagree then the courts will not entertain it and she will know this and not work with me regarding our daughter because "they'll just dismiss it" The judges even said when dismissing the case they were under pressure because the had another case coming up after me and my ex. Honestly I don't know what to do now and any advice or help would be great. Thank you

I totally understand your sense that by dismissing your case it gives your ex free reign to now do what she wants - I've just gone through something very similar and now suffering that consequence....

Was this decision made by the magistrates court or a district judge?
If it was a magistrate then I believe you can appeal the decision regardless of the grounds and you don't need 'leave to apply'.

 

[jtcm0]

I totally understand your sense that by dismissing your case it gives your ex free reign to now do what she wants - I've just gone through something very similar and now suffering that consequence....

Was this decision made by the magistrates court or a district judge?
If it was a magistrate then I believe you can appeal the decision regardless of the grounds and you don't need 'leave to apply'.

Hi, thanks for your response,

I'm not entirely sure it was at the law courts so I presume that's magistrates. It says on the letter with the court date "application allocated to the lay justices and their legal adviser" I don't know if that helps to determine which one.

Also in your experience/view would it be worth appealing the decision?

 

[Jumper85]

hi @jtcm0.

Was this your application to the court? It sounds like it was at the first hearing also?

It's difficult if you're a litigant in person to know how to approach the court but if you disagreed that going back to mediation wasn't the right solution, you should have called this out in the court stating you don't believe it will be effective and you wish to obtain a child arrangement order. You've stated above for the very reason as you fear the mother will withdraw time. That's a very fair justification as to wanting it in writing.

That said, I think you've missed your opportunity. You also can't appeal the decision, there isn't an appeals process. If the court has provided direction to go to mediation you should immediately do that. Call around multiple mediators, I'm sure you might find one available before Christmas. Immediately apply back to court when things don't go to plan and assume you'll jump to the FDR hearing. You then need to specifically state you're looking for a child arrangement order and why, i.e. you fear arrangements being broken. You want to know you have dedicated, allocated time. All other options, i.e. mediation has been explored and failed and most importantly, if you both haven't agreed then state that.

HOWEVER! - Just my opinion and advice is, avoid this going to final, try to conclude and compromise on what the specifics of the arrangement should look like, leaving it the courts to decide comes with great risk!

 

[jtcm0]

hi @jtcm0.

Was this your application to the court? It sounds like it was at the first hearing also?

It's difficult if you're a litigant in person to know how to approach the court but if you disagreed that going back to mediation wasn't the right solution, you should have called this out in the court stating you don't believe it will be effective and you wish to obtain a child arrangement order. You've stated above for the very reason as you fear the mother will withdraw time. That's a very fair justification as to wanting it in writing.

That said, I think you've missed your opportunity. You also can't appeal the decision, there isn't an appeals process. If the court has provided direction to go to mediation you should immediately do that. Call around multiple mediators, I'm sure you might find one available before Christmas. Immediately apply back to court when things don't go to plan and assume you'll jump to the FDR hearing. You then need to specifically state you're looking for a child arrangement order and why, i.e. you fear arrangements being broken. You want to know you have dedicated, allocated time. All other options, i.e. mediation has been explored and failed and most importantly, if you both haven't agreed then state that.

HOWEVER! - Just my opinion and advice is, avoid this going to final, try to conclude and compromise on what the specifics of the arrangement should look like, leaving it the courts to decide comes with great risk!

Hi, Thanks for your response

I did ask in court that if mediation failed would I be able to come back to court however the lay justices said that was a dim view to take and hoping for failure. I of course don't hope for failure but I am also a realist I know that there is very little bordering on no chance of a compromise with my ex.

I've phoned a few already and before they look at the dates they have available they need all my and my ex's info which I've done I am just waiting to hear back.

I believe from my research I may be able to appeal but I'm still looking around on that one. I will also say I'm not appealing because I just don't like the decision Id be appealing because they didn't give sufficient weight to all points before them and they rushed it based on another hearing after mine. whether that's grounds to appeal or not I don't know. However from the lawyers I've spoken to today they all believe that I will get the order of going back to mediation too late to appeal.

 

[Ash]

I totally understand your sense that by dismissing your case it gives your ex free reign to now do what she wants - I've just gone through something very similar and now suffering that consequence....

Was this decision made by the magistrates court or a district judge?
If it was a magistrate then I believe you can appeal the decision regardless of the grounds and you don't need 'leave to apply'.

I agree with this. It was magistrates (lay justices) so you can appeal it - however if it was a first hearing, you only have 7 days to appeal. If you appeal it you get a District Judge. To appeal it you have to be able to say the Judge/Magistrates were wrong and give grounds for that. Eg that this left the child not seeing their Father over Christmas and the reason there was an application to court was because reasonable agreement could not be achieved.

It's really annoying when they just tell "parents" to go and sort it out when the Mother has the upper hand and dictates things. If you appeal it then you get a District Judge, not magistrates.

It's form N161 to appeal and you need to write/attach a separate document "Grounds of Appeal". It helps to quote some caselaw in the grounds of appeal. I take it you were both self repping (ie no lawyers) or this probably wouldn't have happened.

I think it it was me I would submit an appeal, and at the same time, start mediation. ie don't tell the ex you've submitted an appeal, start mediation and when she refuses time at Christmas it lends weight to your appeal argument.

 

[jtcm0]

I agree with this. It was magistrates (lay justices) so you can appeal it - however if it was a first hearing, you only have 7 days to appeal. If you appeal it you get a District Judge. To appeal it you have to be able to say the Judge/Magistrates were wrong and give grounds for that. Eg that this left the child not seeing their Father over Christmas and the reason there was an application to court was because reasonable agreement could not be achieved.

It's really annoying when they just tell "parents" to go and sort it out when the Mother has the upper hand and dictates things. If you appeal it then you get a District Judge, not magistrates.

It's form N161 to appeal and you need to write/attach a separate document "Grounds of Appeal". It helps to quote some caselaw in the grounds of appeal. I take it you were both self repping (ie no lawyers) or this probably wouldn't have happened.

Hi, thank you for your response,

It was a FHDRA. Its crazy the main reason we were there was the overnights but my ex's keyworker effectively said that if she didn't give me overnights before court a judge likely would which is the only reason she did it. We'd spoken about xmas and holidays before but id left it for a while as i didn't want to say anything to stop overnights. I tried to speak to her many times in the 4-6 weeks before court regarding xmas but it didn't help she just wants it to be her way and that's it. With this court case id applied for a CAO and specific issues orders around holidays but the court said the specific order was for drs appointments and documents but that's incorrect. I believe that would be grounds to appeal as they didn't even know what the application was. Please correct me if I'm wrong on that one. Also do I have to tell my ex that I intend to appeal the court? from some articles online it looks like it but I don't want to tell her unless i have to.

 

[Ash]

Unfortunately they were probably right about the specific issues order. The CAO is the place for holidays. Specific issues for holidays is only if you have a specific holiday booked, fairly imminently, and can prove it's booked and ex is refusing to let you go. Holidays are part of child arrangements.

It might be your initial application didn't ask for the right things? If you PM me I can have a look and suggest what next. Having said that, they should have deal with holidays anyway as part of the CAO. Were you self repping? And was ex self repping?

 

[jtcm0]

Unfortunately they were probably right about the specific issues order. The CAO is the place for holidays. Specific issues for holidays is only if you have a specific holiday booked, fairly imminently, and can prove it's booked and ex is refusing to let you go. Holidays are part of child arrangements.

It might be your initial application didn't ask for the right things? If you PM me I can have a look and suggest what next. Having said that, they should have deal with holidays anyway as part of the CAO. Were you self repping? And was ex self repping?

Yeah it was general holidays. The ex is refusing me to take our daughter on holiday even in the UK until she is 3 or 4 years old even though she has been overseas with her because she wont remember it anyway. Yeah we were both self rep im sure you know how much a lawyer costs but neither of us would ever have the money for legal rep in court

I will send a PM over (if I can figure out how, I've not done that yet on here)

 

[Ash]

To send me a PM just click on my avatar on the left of this message and then click on "send direct message". How old is your child? If the child is very young or less than a year old, they often don't order holiday periods and just leave the weekly schedule all year round. But they would normally put something in to share Christmas.

 

[jtcm0]

To send me a PM just click on my avatar on the left of this message and then click on "send direct message". How old is your child? If the child is very young or less than a year old, they often don't order holiday periods and just leave the weekly schedule all year round. But they would normally put something in to share Christmas.

Have sent PM