Court Bundles

[Pj66]

I have a question about assigning solicitor to compile bundles, if you are the applicant but stated LIP, I assume the respondent if represented would be in charge on the bundle.

Should I decide to have a solicitor act for me as a one off for the bundles, would the onus on sorting the bundle then fall back onto the applicant ?

 

[Ash]

If you have a barrister at a hearing, your barrister would write up any order. At any subsequent hearings, if the ex has a solicitor and you don't, her solicitor would do the bundle. Unless you can find a barrister who will do it as well as represent you but that's not common. However you don't normally need a bundle until a final hearing and you could just hire a solicitor for a one off job to do the bundle (and maybe help with a final statement).

 

[BigLes]

If applicant ticks the box for no solicitor when submitting application and respondent has no solicitor then the applicant will be directed to prepare the bundle?

Applicant can then prepare a draft bundle as best he/she can, and then get a solicitor to finalise it, submit it etc. a Direct Access Barrister wouldn’t be able to do this for the applicant? I was hoping a DAB could do this and cut out all need for a solicitor.

If applicant has a DAB but no solicitor, and respondent has a solicitor, is respondent then tasked with bundle preparation?

If applicant ticks the “Litigant in Person” box on the application and has no solicitor at the outset of proceedings, but the respondent then says “I have a solicitor”, the respondent (via her solicitor) will be able to dictate the contents of the bundle to a certain extent (e.g. write the chronology and case summary)? In my mind such a situation is less-than-ideal.

I wonder if there any pitfalls with the following plan:
> Tick the ‘Litigant in Person’ box of the court application form
> prepare the bundle yourself
> get a solicitor and a barrister (or, even better, a DAB that is willing and able to do paperwork AND act as counsel in proceedings) so that the solicitor does the absolute minimum admin tasks (thus minimising costs)
> uninstruct the solicitor so you don’t end up paying for any post-hearing back-and- forth emails.

I feel the solicitor would still find a way to charge a fortune though.

I wonder if there’s a way to cut out a solicitor entirely, use a DAB, and also ensure that the task of bundle preparation is given to the applicant

 

[Ash]

I wonder if there’s a way to cut out a solicitor entirely, use a DAB, and also ensure that the task of bundle preparation is given to the applicant

That has happened but the barrister would need to agree to do a bundle and would charge for it. And they don't normally do that. Some more junior ones might, if they want the work.

 

[Pj66]

Hi guys, it has been instructed after my first hearing that a bundle needs to be made and mother has a solicitor.

i am not to keen on the idea of mothers side being in charge of the bundle so i have created a draft bundle but running out of time to have it signed of by a solicitor. order states that if father retains a solicitor then i would be in charge of compiling the bundle. What is the purpose of having a solicitor doing the bundle? If i have already done the bundle with the limited amount of information contained in it so far, would it be a straight forward process to have a solicitor sign off on it?

I saw a few pages back on here that mother always finds problems last minute, case chronology and case summary currently seem the things that could stick out in disagreement.

position statements for both parties i was advised to leave out the bundle for now and jsut submit to court, as the bundle is 7 days before and the other 5 days before. Is it really worth hiring a solicitor purely to do the bundle just to ensure it is within control to avoid tactics?

 

[Ash]

I think it might be worth it yes - but you could ask if your barrister is prepared to do it. Some will even though it’s normally a solicitors job - but if it’s just a small bundle. You’d also need to let the other side know who was doing the bundle or they just might go ahead and do it.

I’d check with the barrister about position statements as well. I’d be going to do one and when?

 

[Chi22]

If you are LIP and V the other side represented, then the bundle is their responsibility. Unless it is a really hefty bundle with lots of stuff that is likely to be contentious I world lay them do it and make sure everything you've filed is in there.

 

[Pj66]

I think it might be worth it yes - but you could ask if your barrister is prepared to do it. Some will even though it’s normally a solicitors job - but if it’s just a small bundle. You’d also need to let the other side know who was doing the bundle or they just might go ahead and do it.

I’d check with the barrister about position statements as well. I’d be going to do one and when?

Barrister informed me that bundles are not something he usually does. It is a small bundle so far, mainly cafcass reports, statements, notices and a single order (60 page bundle so far, including the c100)

regarding the next position statement, this is something i should chase up on monday but as previously mentioned, i have this entire week to get that ready and doesnt have to be put into the bundle (only submitted to the court).

I think i have the bundle completed from the advice on here which has been great, issue is that you have to pay extortionate retaining fees before any actually work takes place

 

[BigLes]

Hi guys, it has been instructed after my first hearing that a bundle needs to be made and mother has a solicitor.

i am not to keen on the idea of mothers side being in charge of the bundle so i have created a draft bundle but running out of time to have it signed of by a solicitor. order states that if father retains a solicitor then i would be in charge of compiling the bundle. What is the purpose of having a solicitor doing the bundle? If i have already done the bundle with the limited amount of information contained in it so far, would it be a straight forward process to have a solicitor sign off on it?

I saw a few pages back on here that mother always finds problems last minute, case chronology and case summary currently seem the things that could stick out in disagreement.

position statements for both parties i was advised to leave out the bundle for now and jsut submit to court, as the bundle is 7 days before and the other 5 days before. Is it really worth hiring a solicitor purely to do the bundle just to ensure it is within control to avoid tactics?

I would prefer to have the chronology and case summary prepared by myself rather than the other party. So I’d be interested in doing what you’re doing i.e. finding a cheap solicitor just to review and submit your draft bundle

 

[Kyle]

The whole point of this post was to aid those choosing to prepare their bundle themselves. I appreciate it’s a daunting task amid heightened emotions. From my experience paying a solicitor to do it offered little value. My barristers fees included “consideration” of a court bundle that had been prepared by myself or another party, i.e. a solicitor. But that “consideration” didn’t offer much either. But I bit the bullet and compiled it all myself. I was ordered to as the applicant because I was represented. How much of an impact it had on my case or the judges decision I’m still unsure of. On that note, I would caution against overthinking it.

 

[Ash]

Agreed Kyle. The issue I think PJ has is he doesn't want the other side doing the bundle if they have a solicitor and he doesn't but I doubt there is very much to go in a bundle for an interim hearing - any bundle needs to be agreed in advance, and if they happen to miss something out when you've asked them to include it, you can just send it to the court separately and say this was missed out of the bundle.

I do understand the concern though - because solicitors for ex's sometimes add unnecessary things like "the issues before the court are - who the child shall live with and whether they will spend time with the other parent or not". Ie they completely skew the "issues before the court".

If you feel more comfortable having a solicitor so you're in charge of the bundle, then that's a choice. If neither has a solicitor, then you are responsible for the bundle anyway.

 

[Pj66]

Agreed Kyle. The issue I think PJ has is he doesn't want the other side doing the bundle if they have a solicitor and he doesn't but I doubt there is very much to go in a bundle for an interim hearing - any bundle needs to be agreed in advance, and if they happen to miss something out when you've asked them to include it, you can just send it to the court separately and say this was missed out of the bundle.

I do understand the concern though - because solicitors for ex's sometimes add unnecessary things like "the issues before the court are - who the child shall live with and whether they will spend time with the other parent or not". Ie they completely skew the "issues before the court".

If you feel more comfortable having a solicitor so you're in charge of the bundle, then that's a choice. If neither has a solicitor, then you are responsible for the bundle anyway.

Yes I'm not too concern about missing documents as there is so little in this bundle, unless they try to add things that were missing at the first hearing such as a c7 or position statment that hadn't previously been seen. However I am unsure this could be done as it's already noted on the order.

Main concern is the case summary and chronology, it's going to magistrates from the legal adviser so not seen the case before. The skewing of the narrative is my concern when I've already established such a strong position. It seems on surface a minor thing but it could also have a big impact.

 

[Pj66]

The whole point of this post was to aid those choosing to prepare their bundle themselves. I appreciate it’s a daunting task amid heightened emotions. From my experience paying a solicitor to do it offered little value. My barristers fees included “consideration” of a court bundle that had been prepared by myself or another party, i.e. a solicitor. But that “consideration” didn’t offer much either. But I bit the bullet and compiled it all myself. I was ordered to as the applicant because I was represented. How much of an impact it had on my case or the judges decision I’m still unsure of. On that note, I would caution against overthinking it.

Yes understood that. However I'm in the same boat as I compiled a bundle also to have more of an understanding of the process and how it works primarily. This thread has been very helpful in that regard.

 

[Richie1989]

When it came to bundle exchange for me and my exs solicitor they requested to have mine up front first before they gave me there’s. They also tried to do this with the arrnagenent proposal exchange. I made it very very clear to my solicitor that by no means do they get mine first. So my solicitor messaged my exs solicitor saying that both people should agree to exchange by 4pm on a certain. Once this was agreed I made it very very clear to jot exchange until 3.59pm on that very day. Even then they sent a letter the day before saying they are ready to exchange in hope they would get mine first. So my advice would be to make sure the exchange is agreed and then send it the very last second. Whether that’s via a solicitor or from yourself. Hope this helps

 

[Pj66]

Hi guys, barrister agreed that he would send their solicitor a draft copy of my bundle. However of course what I expected has come to fruition.

Ex solicitor sent me an email saying that if I want to file the bundle I should go ahead, ensuring to label the base summary and chronology as mine.

Ex solicitor writing a position statement and chronology.

It's clear that now they see my chronology they are writing a different one separately to change the narrative.

However I was under the assumption that there should only be one bundle and one chronology? I also thought the contents needed to be agreed by both parties and for their solicitor to be the one to file after agreement?

I only sent mine across with the documents to assist, however in hindsight I should have removed the case summary and chronology.

Also I think my bundle complies with pd27a, however if there are any errors? They may have some leverage on me with that if I submit the bundle.

Any advise?

 

[Jumper85]

From my experience, it's not unusual for the other party to produce such documents and their own narrative, especially when represented. As you say, in hindsight, you could have removed the case summary and chronology but it's their word against yours anyway.

 

[Pj66]

From my experience, it's not unusual for the other party to produce such documents and their own narrative, especially when represented. As you say, in hindsight, you could have removed the case summary and chronology but it's their word against yours anyway.

Yes my barrister said this is common place and is happy with them to do it.. My chronology is very brief, date of parents born, child born, contact stopped, mediation and hearing.

If their chronology is bonkers, wouldn't they just be opening themselves up to cross examination at a Final hearing?

 

[Jumper85]

Genuinely wouldn't worry about it. A few points here;

• Her solicitor wants to charge her more for paperwork. Whilst I get the point they want to add a positioning statement, anything else adds no value and she's burning money, completely pointless (to your point, the key dates in a chronology are facts and undebatable!
• The Chronology won't even be used, UNLESS, there is a huge confliction or disagreement in the positioning statements. Sadly you've gone to a lot of trouble preparing a bundle (mine was 600+) that the courts don't have the time to examine and are only really interested in a VERY small number of pages

 

[Merlin836]

This guy seems to have a good handle on things.

I struggle a touch with this sort of thing . This is the video I watched and I wrote down how to present it etc going off this video .
What I'm going to ask next may seem obvious to others and I may be over thinking , the chap in the video states put the court orders/issues etc , anything sent by and to the court and dated .
Do I date when I actually received the emails about the hearings or date the documents according to when the hearings were set .
He also said put position statements in the section titled statements but I know some people have put that in the preliminary documents , .

I just want to make sure it's correct or as correct as can be

 

[Merlin836]

I struggle a touch with this sort of thing . This is the video I watched and I wrote down how to present it etc going off this video .
What I'm going to ask next may seem obvious to others and I may be over thinking , the chap in the video states put the court orders/issues etc , anything sent by and to the court and dated .
Do I date when I actually received the emails about the hearings or date the documents according to when the hearings were set .
He also said put position statements in the section titled statements but I know some people have put that in the preliminary documents , .

I just want to make sure it's correct or as correct as can be

I've got my head around this section now after reading through Kyle's post and seeing how he's done it too .